Axis History forum claims to refute

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hermod
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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby hermod » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:54 pm)

Rmbrmb21 wrote:To answer your question about Leuchter, I don't think a lot of what he spouts is credible. He was already shown to not be an engineer


A person can be an engineer without a degree. Many private companies employ non-degreed engineers in technical positions with engineering titles such as "test engineer" or "field engineer." In the United States, a person can legally use the title of engineer without any engineering degree. But a person needs an engineering degree to be called a licensed/professional engineer (or PE). Experience can make you an engineer but not a licensed/professional engineer. Leuchter was/is undeniably an engineer (but not a PE) in the field of capital punishment. Leuchter has never been registered as a professional engineer with the Board of Registration of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors of Massachussetts. Big deal. His job had never required such a registration before some Jewish organizations attacked him. (Why should he have applied for a registration never required by his employers?) Doesn't change the experience and knowledge he has in the field of capital punishment and executions.


"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby borjastick » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:36 am)

hermod wrote:
Rmbrmb21 wrote:To answer your question about Leuchter, I don't think a lot of what he spouts is credible. He was already shown to not be an engineer


A person can be an engineer without a degree. Many private companies employ non-degreed engineers in technical positions with engineering titles such as "test engineer" or "field engineer." In the United States, a person can legally use the title of engineer without any engineering degree. But a person needs an engineering degree to be called a licensed/professional engineer (or PE). Experience can make you an engineer but not a licensed/professional engineer. Leuchter was/is undeniably an engineer (but not a PE) in the field of capital punishment. Leuchter has never been registered as a professional engineer with the Board of Registration of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors of Massachussetts. Big deal. His job had never required such a registration before some Jewish organizations attacked him. (Why should he have applied for a registration never required by his employers?) Doesn't change the experience and knowledge he has in the field of capital punishment and executions.


Good point well made hermod. Further, many of us here would consider ourselves holocaust historians yet how many have history degrees from university? It doesn't stop us being very well read and knowledgeable on the matter.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby Rogal Dorn » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:50 am)

If 4 million Jews were killed at Auschwitz (official plaque) and 2 million Jews had been killed at Majdanek (official plaque), this would either mean far more than 6 million Jews died (a position that has, at best, only found itself into a handful of obscure newspaper articles rather than being the official narrative) OR it means no Jew died anywhere outside Auschwitz and Majdanek.

Obviously the third option is that during the years when Auschwitz had an official death count of 4M and Majdanek 2M, nobody was alleging these were all, or even majority Jews. Keep in mind that these camps were under Soviet administration. And the Soviets never once tried to put Jewish suffering during the holocaust on some kind of pedestal the way the West has done. It was all about fascists killing innocents, regardless of religious affiliation according to Soviet propaganda.

Therefore, I think borjastick is trying to bring two different concepts into the same room (equating "western schools teaching the holocaust was about jewish suffering" and "the soviet union saying 4 million were killed in auschwitz" to "therefore clearly back then the claim was 4 million jews were killed at auschwitz")

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby Kingfisher » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:38 am)

It is true that the 4M figure was not supported by historians in the West, such as Hilberg, but that didn't stop it being promulgated in the media even by people who should have been educated and intelligent enough to at the least have a smidgeon of doubt. Here is Jacob Bronowski in an extract ironically entitled The Danger of Dogma.





Here is Bronowski again,explaining how those "methodical" Germans collected all those spectacles, human hair and children's chamber pots. This is from a leading scientist whose public communication was largely about the importance of scientific method.It does not appear to cross his mind that they might have been planted, but then no one questioned the Holocaust in those days, even if it did not yet have the name. I guess it goes to confirm that we are all rubbish outside our specialist field, especially in fields where we are personally emotionally involved. I have seen similar platitudes mouthed (sorry, not intended but I'll leave it!) by Stephen Hawking about Climate change (a field where I, personally, am agnostic though increasingly sceptical because of the clear suppression of one side of the debate).



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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby borjastick » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:26 am)

That the Russians invented the 4m figure and presented it as 'fact' at Nuremberg is largely irrelevant to me and my holocaust indoctrination at secondary modern school in England. The jews ran with this figure because it made them super victims, allowed them to steal Palestine and because no one called them out on it. They could have revised the figure down to 1m or less many years before 1989, when I guess they only did it because they knew the world, read Goyim, was sniffing their lies out.

The fact is they were happy for everyone to think the vast majority of millions who died in their claimed holocaust were jews. As mentioned above if the figures for auschwitz and majdanek were true then there couldn't have been many more jews killed in the holocaust anywhere else, yet we were forced to accept mass murder on a humungous scale by the Einsatzgruppen and mass deaths in all the other camps too. The jews had decades to analyse the facts as they became available but didn't. Why? Because it would have made them look like the liars they are. Now having missed the real chance to reduce the death toll in the holocaust from 6m to perhaps a genuine 300k - 500k they cannot do it without losing respect (as if they have any now) and opening themselves up to even more anti-semitism because of the scam they have obviously perpetrated for the past 70 years.

In reality the jews were no more victims in the holocaust than any other group. That is why other 'discussion' sites are managed and frequented by bullies and liars which is proven over and over here, not because they come to this site for a fair and intelligent discussion, but because they won't.


Until 1989, notes Meyer, it was forbidden in eastern Europe to dispute the official finding that four million were killed at Auschwitz. At the Auschwitz State Museum, staff members who expressed doubts about this figure were threatened with disciplinary measures. In 1989 Israeli Holocaust historian Yehuda Bauer said that it is time to finally acknowledge that the familiar four million figure is a deliberate myth. /7 In July 1990 the Auschwitz State Museum, a Polish government agency, along with Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust Center, announced that altogether perhaps one million people (both Jews and non-Jews) died at Auschwitz. / 8

Franciszek Piper, director of the Auschwitz State Museum, in an essay published in a semi-official 1994 American anthology, put the number of Auschwitz victims at 1.1 million. / 9 More or less consistent with that, prominent American newspapers in recent months have been telling readers that "more than a million" Jews lost their lives at Auschwitz. / 10

In a book published in 1994, the French anti-revisionist writer Jean-Claude Pressac estimated 631,000 to 711,000 deaths at Auschwitz, of which 470,000 to 550,000 were from gassing. / 11

In his recent Osteuropa article, Fritjof Meyer presents a further revision downwards. He writes: "These considerations are the basis for the conclusion here that in Auschwitz half a million people were murdered, about 356,000 of them with gas." Similarly, Meyer ends his article by concluding that 510,000 lost their lives in Auschwitz, of whom 356,000 "probably" were killed by gas.

Source - IHR, Mark Weber http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v21/v21n3p24_weber.html
Last edited by borjastick on Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby hermod » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:27 am)

borjastick wrote:
hermod wrote:
Rmbrmb21 wrote:To answer your question about Leuchter, I don't think a lot of what he spouts is credible. He was already shown to not be an engineer


A person can be an engineer without a degree. Many private companies employ non-degreed engineers in technical positions with engineering titles such as "test engineer" or "field engineer." In the United States, a person can legally use the title of engineer without any engineering degree. But a person needs an engineering degree to be called a licensed/professional engineer (or PE). Experience can make you an engineer but not a licensed/professional engineer. Leuchter was/is undeniably an engineer (but not a PE) in the field of capital punishment. Leuchter has never been registered as a professional engineer with the Board of Registration of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors of Massachussetts. Big deal. His job had never required such a registration before some Jewish organizations attacked him. (Why should he have applied for a registration never required by his employers?) Doesn't change the experience and knowledge he has in the field of capital punishment and executions.


Good point well made hermod. Further, many of us here would consider ourselves holocaust historians yet how many have history degrees from university? It doesn't stop us being very well read and knowledgeable on the matter.


But on the other hand, the exterminationist clique sees no problem in letting its whole scientific argumentation rest on the sole shoulders of a pharmacist (Jean-Claude Pressac) and of an architectural historian [who is not an architect] (Robert Jan van Pelt). A guy who has built, checked, tested and maintained execution facilities for decades can't talk about homicidal gas chambers, but an aspirin seller and a theorist of architectural art history can ?!? WTF ?

Your comment is very true, borjastick. I know more things about the 'Holocaust' than most of the historians with history degrees I've heard and read so far. I'm often amazed at their crass ignorance on basic Holo-stuff. To their credit, we should concede that they're not helped by the fact that the exterminationist Holocaust narrative often changes on major points, when the latter become too untenable.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby Hegwood » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:11 am)

Sannhet asked

I am curious, do have any published material noting this observation, before the chemical analyses of the 1980s and 1990s?


No I don't. Frankly I was thinking of Fauisson when I referred to "astute visitors noting the blue staining by Prussian blue." Someone else may have actually noticed it and clued In Fauisson. Certainly, it is the blatant existence of the visible blue staining in the fumigation chambers that led to the idea of performing the chemical analysis.

I also recalled David Cole's video pointing out the blue staining but upon being reminded I realize that would probably have been later.

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby CognitiveDestruction » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:44 pm)

Ladies and gents, this is nothing more than the HC Blog's bullshit "rebuttals" that have been debunked time and time again. Let's carry on and not give these clowns anymore attention.

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby Atigun » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:42 pm)

Welp, it's 72 years downstream from the end of WW II and people are still being thrown in prison and fined for holocaust denial so it looks like we still have a way to go before before the holocaust becomes "just another historical event."

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby permanent_denial » 5 months 1 week ago (Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:40 pm)

Rmbrmb21 wrote:...
Some I already knew of and have been embarrassed for revisionists to constantly rehash, like Leuchter and the Auschwitz swimming pools.
...


In what way is the claim about swimming pools being used by prisoners at Auschwitz any more "embarrassing" than the following bare assertion of Sergey Romanov linked as a refutation of the claim?

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/01/dumbest-holocaust-denial-icon-auschwitz.html?m=1

Sergey Romanov wrote:the swimming pool was built as a water reservoir for the purpose of firefighting ... that the diving boards were added later


Which he admits in the comments section is not based on any first hand evidence whatever.

Sergey Romanov wrote:"What proof is there that:"

1. I gave the links to scholars of Auschwitz, who apparently got this information from documents and/or witnesses. Do you suggest they're lying? What's your proof of that?


He turns the burden of proof right around to demand evidence that the bare assertion he just made is, in fact, a bare assertion. The "proof" is that he didn't provide evidence.

Completely laughable.

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby hermod » 5 months 1 week ago (Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:54 pm)

permanent_denial wrote:
Rmbrmb21 wrote:...
Some I already knew of and have been embarrassed for revisionists to constantly rehash, like Leuchter and the Auschwitz swimming pools.
...


In what way is the claim about swimming pools being used by prisoners at Auschwitz any more "embarrassing" than the following bare assertion of Sergey Romanov linked as a refutation of the claim?

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/01/dumbest-holocaust-denial-icon-auschwitz.html?m=1

Sergey Romanov wrote:the swimming pool was built as a water reservoir for the purpose of firefighting ... that the diving boards were added later


Which he admits in the comments section is not based on any first hand evidence whatever.

Sergey Romanov wrote:"What proof is there that:"

1. I gave the links to scholars of Auschwitz, who apparently got this information from documents and/or witnesses. Do you suggest they're lying? What's your proof of that?


He turns the burden of proof right around to demand evidence that the bare assertion he just made is, in fact, a bare assertion. The "proof" is that he didn't provide evidence.

Completely laughable.


I wonder why the Soviets would have tried to disguise a water reservoir for firefighting as a swimming pool for the entertainment of the Auschwitz inmates. Were they trying to exonerate the Nazis or to portray them in a better light? Completely against their usual policy in that field ! What's Sergey Romanov's explanation for that one? Temporary collective madness in the Soviet bureaucracy? Sudden love for Naziism among the Bolshevik apparatchicks of that time? Or just another inconsistency within the Holohoax, that is very problematic (if not embarrassing) for the rabid guardians of the [Third] Temple like himself???
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby Rmbrmb21 » 5 months 1 week ago (Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:04 pm)

permanent_denial wrote:
Rmbrmb21 wrote:...
Some I already knew of and have been embarrassed for revisionists to constantly rehash, like Leuchter and the Auschwitz swimming pools.
...


In what way is the claim about swimming pools being used by prisoners at Auschwitz any more "embarrassing" than the following bare assertion of Sergey Romanov linked as a refutation of the claim?

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/01/dumbest-holocaust-denial-icon-auschwitz.html?m=1

Sergey Romanov wrote:the swimming pool was built as a water reservoir for the purpose of firefighting ... that the diving boards were added later


Which he admits in the comments section is not based on any first hand evidence whatever.

Sergey Romanov wrote:"What proof is there that:"

1. I gave the links to scholars of Auschwitz, who apparently got this information from documents and/or witnesses. Do you suggest they're lying? What's your proof of that?


He turns the burden of proof right around to demand evidence that the bare assertion he just made is, in fact, a bare assertion. The "proof" is that he didn't provide evidence.

Completely laughable.


The pool could have been restricted to certain people. Even if the pool was open to everyone at the camp, that doesn't prove or disprove anything other than people swam for fun at Auschwitz. There's really no point in bringing it up. I find chemistry of the "gas chambers", genuine translations of German documents, and the numerous conflicting accounts of how people were killed and how their bodies were dealt with to be more convincing than "there's a pool at Auschwitz".

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby hermod » 5 months 1 week ago (Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:39 am)

Rmbrmb21 wrote:Even if the pool was open to everyone at the camp, that doesn't prove or disprove anything other than people swam for fun at Auschwitz. There's really no point in bringing it up.


Visibly, the rabid defenders of the myth find that there is a point in bringing it up and in denying it by any means.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby borjastick » 5 months 1 week ago (Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:29 am)

hermod wrote:
Rmbrmb21 wrote:Even if the pool was open to everyone at the camp, that doesn't prove or disprove anything other than people swam for fun at Auschwitz. There's really no point in bringing it up.


Visibly, the rabid defenders of the myth find that there is a point in bringing it up and in denying it by any means.


Agreed, plus when one is discussing basic revisionism with newbies it often helps to set the scene by asking if they knew there was a swimming pool, football field, hospital, theatre, orchestra and so on. You can see the light flickering on in their head before getting into the heavier aspects of the claims.
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Re: Axis History forum claims to refute

Postby HeiligeSturm » 5 months 1 week ago (Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:05 am)

hermod wrote:
Rmbrmb21 wrote:Even if the pool was open to everyone at the camp, that doesn't prove or disprove anything other than people swam for fun at Auschwitz. There's really no point in bringing it up.


Visibly, the rabid defenders of the myth find that there is a point in bringing it up and in denying it by any means.


Mr. Romanov & co. always forget that French Jewish Olympic swimmer Alfred Nakache swam in that pool and continued his swimming career after the imprisonment.
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe


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