Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

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Hannover
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Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:49 am)

I just saw at a lesser quality forum that 'holocau$t' Industry spokesman Roberto Muhlenkamp has posted a variety of photos in response to a challenge put to him to actually show excavations of sites like: Treblinka (900,000 Jews allegedly buried), Auschwitz (1,250,000 alleged Jew remains are claimed to exist), Sobibor (200,000 Jews are allegedly buried there, and Babi Yar (34,000 Jews allegedly buried there).

Of course none of the fakes below are said to be from the sites requested. But alas, this is what Roberto offered up as a way of dodging the challenge.

What Roberto has posted can best be described as the work of the Communist / Zionist Propaganda Factory, really corn ball, embarrassing stuff.

As has been said, debunking the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' really is too easy.

I have posted comments below each staged / fake image, yours are welcomed. Enjoy the laughable cut & pastes, enjoy the laughs. 8)

- Hannover

Image
no proof that these are Jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility

Image
caption:
"probably of Soviet POWs in Dulag 131, winter 1941"
"Probably"?
supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims. no proof of German responsibility

Image
caption:
Bobruisk, Belorussia, Burial of corpses in a mass grave, probably of Soviet POWs in Dulag 131, winter 1941.
No blood, no mass grave as claimed there to see, no proof of German responsibility

Image
pasted in soldiers on what looks like disease victims from Belsen.

Image
Laughably pasted in people, needs no discussion. No proof that the corpses were 'holocaust' related, no proof of German responsibility, only a few even look like corpses.

Image
supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility

Image
supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility

Image
supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility

Image
bizarre compilation with vegetation thrown in, supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:23 am)

It's as if these people think that the only bodies in the second world war were of the holocaust. People were shot, starved and innocent folk died at the hands of all sorts. The British carried out some dreadful civilian bombing raids. Being a Brit that makes me uncomfortable at the very least.

As Hannover says there is no proof of origin for these pictures, thus I have no idea what these are really about. What I do know is these people weren't killed by Einsatzgruppen, gas chambers or in any known claimed holocaust camp. They also don't add up to more than a few hundred so don't do much for the six million claim. But at a lesser web site this is apparently good enough to be classed as proof and then enforced by school playground bullies.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby Hektor » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:05 pm)

If he really thinks that posting some pictures of dubious nature, without origins and authentication, etc. , proves "the Holocaust". He's mistaken in his method to establish truth as well. Just adding up several suggestive pictures and insinuative claims doesn't add up to "convergence of evidence" - It's innuendo not more. Malicious, if you keep on doing that for 70 years or more, In any case that was WW2 getting a pile of corpse and taking a picture of it, was pretty easy then.

Until now Exterminationists haven't presented any evidence that isn't compliant with the Revisionist thesis on the subject.

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:28 pm)

Imagine Roberto or anyone from the "Holocau$t Industry" in court:
'Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, ... but, but, well, umm, we can't show the court. You must trust us, we're Zionists.'

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby roberto » 2 years 4 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:34 pm)

Hannover wrote:I just saw at a lesser quality forum that 'holocau$t' Industry spokesman Roberto Muhlenkamp has posted a variety of photos in response to a challenge put to him to actually show excavations of sites like: Treblinka (900,000 Jews allegedly buried), Auschwitz (1,250,000 alleged Jew remains are claimed to exist), Sobibor (200,000 Jews are allegedly buried there, and Babi Yar (34,000 Jews allegedly buried there

Of course none of the fakes below are said to be from the sites requested. But alas, this is what Roberto offered up as a way of dodging the challenge.


First of all, I have nothing to do with any "industry". I post and write blog articles on my own initiative and in accordance with my own interests. It's a hobby, nothing more.

The pictures I posted were not posted in response to or in order to dodge any challenge. They were posted to make the point that photos cannot be reasonably expected to prove, especially to prove all by themselves, the death toll of a genocide or other major human catastrophe, be it the Nazi genocide of Europe's Jews, other Nazi crimes, crimes committed by Stalin's regime in the Soviet Union, the battles on the Eastern Front during World War II, the area bombing of German cities during World War II or the flight and expulsion of ethnic Germans during and after World War II.

As concerns physical remains the camps Treblinka (ca. 800,000 deaths), Sobibór (ca. 170,000 deaths), Auschwitz (ca. 1 million deaths), and the killing site at Babi Yar, the following information can be provided:

Auschwitz: There are some mass graves of inmates who perished after having been left behind during the German evacuation of the camp in early 1945, but other inmates as well as deportees killed upon arrival (the overwhelming majority of the camp's victims) were cremated, after which the cremation remains were crushed and ground and transported to a nearby river, where they were thrown into the water. For this reason it is not possible to find the cremation remains of most people killed at Auschwitz, or at least most of the cremation remains. Where corpses were cremated in open-air pyres, some cremation remains remained in the soil and were detected during a prospection carried out in the 1960s. Other than that I know of no physical examination of the camp's soil in search of cremation remains.

Sobibór: Most of the victims' corpses were cremated on one or more grates in the open air, after which the cremation remains were crushed and ground and returned to the emptied mass graves. An archaeological investigation by core drilling in 2001 identified seven graves containing cremation remains, with the larger graves also containing corpses in wax-fat transformation in the bottom layers. No excavation was carried out as doing so would have contravened Jewish religious beliefs. However, the mapped outlines of the graves match with patches of greener soil that can be seen on air photographs and a satellite photograph taken years after the aforementioned survey. Subsequent archaeological research focused in finding the gas chamber building. Excavating in the mass graves was not permitted by Jewish religious authorities, thus there were only some peripheral excavations in the course of which large amounts of bone fragments were found. Also found was on additional mass grave containing only cremation remains. One excavation found corpses in a rather shallow mass grave, which may or not have been related to Sobibór's operation as an extermination camp.

Treblinka: Also here most of the victims' corpses were cremated, Due to intensive robbery digging after the war, postwar crime site investigations found an area of ca. 1.8 hectares covered by cremation remains as well as larger human remains (bones and skulls), which were present in the soil to a depth of 7.5 meters as established by excavation. Reports about this investigation as well as photos taken in the course thereof, which show parts of what the reports describe, have been published on the internet and can be shown upon request. A recent archaeological survey using non-invasive geophysical methods discovered several pits considered to be mass graves or parts of mass graves. However, the larger part of the mass graves area, which in all probability is located underneath the memorial that was erected in the 1960s, have not yet been explored.

Babi Yar: The corpses of the about 34,000 Jews shot there in September 1941 and of the victims of further killings were cremated in late 1943 by a special German unit employing Jewish forced laborers. Thus all that was left of these corpses were cremation remains like bone fragments and larger bones. There was a concentration camp (Syrets) near the Babi Yar raving, whose inmates largely perished or were killed. The corpses of these inmates were not cremated, probably because there was no more time to do so. Soviet investigators found these corpses after the area was reconquered by Soviet troops, and photographed some of them. Photos of dead Syrets inmates have been published on the internet and can be shown upon request.

That's about what can be said about human corpses or the remains thereof at the aforementioned places, in a nutshell. All above information can be duly substantiated with sources, if requested.

Hannover wrote:What Roberto has posted can best be described as the work of the Communist / Zionist Propaganda Factory, really corn ball, embarrassing stuff.


Such statement requires substantiation. What evidence there that the photos in question are "the work of the Communist / Zionist Propaganda Factory"? What evidence is there that such a "factory" ever existed at all?

Hannover wrote:As has been said, debunking the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' really is too easy.


Actually the claimed debunking is what is impossible, due to the fact that all known documentary, eyewitness, physical and demographic evidence substantiates the historical record whereby between 5 and 6 million Jews and well over 5 million others (mainly Soviet prisoners of war, civilians who starved to death during the siege of Leningrad and civilian victims of massacres in the course of anti-partisan warfare, to a smaller extent Gypsies, disabled people and members of other minority groups) were killed in criminal actions by Nazi Germany and/or its European allies, while on the other hand there is no evidence substantiating any alternative scenario, such as mass emigration of Jews from Europe or deportation of those that history considers to have been killed in extermination camps via transit camps in occupied Poland to the Reichskommisariat Ostland, the Reichskommissariat Ukraine or the Soviet territories under German military administration.

Hannover wrote:I have posted comments below each staged / fake image, yours are welcomed. Enjoy the laughable cut & pastes, enjoy the laughs. 8)


Another claim that requires substantiation. What evidence is there that any of the scenes shown in the pictures below was staged, or that any of the images was manipulated by "cut and paste" or in another manner?

Hannover wrote:Image
no proof that these are Jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility


The dead people on the picture are not claimed to be Jews. The photograph's caption in the Yad Vashem photo archives (http://collections1.yadvashem.org/search.asp?lang=ENG&rsvr=7) is "Borisov, Belorussia, Corpses strewn throughout the camp, after the liberation, 06/07/1944". As the bodies were still lying around when the Soviet army reconquered the area, it's unlikely that the corpses shown are of Jews. A likelier possibility is a last-minute execution of non-Jewish labor camp or prison inmates by the retreating Germans. As to proof of German responsibility, it is hardly realistic to expect that from a photograph, as photographs showing both victims and perpetrators of mass crimes are a rarity. Proof of who did the killing has to be sought in other evidence.

Hannover wrote:Image
caption:
"probably of Soviet POWs in Dulag 131, winter 1941"
"Probably"?
supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims. no proof of German responsibility


It is not claimed that the people whose corpses are shown in the picture were shot. Their emaciated corpses rather suggest death from starvation, which was what killed most Soviet prisoners of war in German captivity. It is also not claimed that the corpses were of Jews; the overwhelming majority of Soviet POWs who died in German captivity were not Jewish. As to German responsibility, that follows from a custodian nation's responsibility for the welfare of POWs in its custody, which means that if the POW's custodians allow the prisoners to die of starvation or disease, they are responsible for such deaths.

Hannover wrote:Image
caption:
Bobruisk, Belorussia, Burial of corpses in a mass grave, probably of Soviet POWs in Dulag 131, winter 1941.
No blood, no mass grave as claimed there to see, no proof of German responsibility


Again, it is not claimed that the people whose corpses are shown in the picture were shot. The presence of a mass grave follows from the logic that heaps of corpses would hardly be allowed to lie around in the open. As to German responsibility, see previous comment.

Hannover wrote:Image
pasted in soldiers on what looks like disease victims from Belsen.


The photograph's caption reads "Bobruisk, Belorussia, Burial of corpses in a mass grave, probably of Soviet POWs in Dulag 131, winter 1941". The soldiers shown on the picture, with one possible exception, seem to be POWs themselves. There is no evidence that the photo is in any way related to Belsen, nor is there any evidence or indication that the photo was manipulated.

Regarding the context of the Bobruisk photos, see the translated excerpt from Christian Gerlach, Kalkulierte Morde, pp. 774, under http://holocaustcontroversies.yuku.com/the-fate-of-soviet-prisoners-of-war-t1896.html#p28436. Search for "Bobruisk". Same in the excerpt from Christian Streit' article translated under http://holocaustcontroversies.yuku.com/the-fate-of-soviet-prisoners-of-war-t1896.html#p28438.

Hannover wrote:Image
Laughably pasted in people, needs no discussion. No proof that the corpses were 'holocaust' related, no proof of German responsibility, only a few even look like corpses.


Again, there is no evidence or indication that people were "pasted in" or that the photo was manipulated in some other way. The photo is captioned "Lyady, Belorussia, Corpses of Jews". Jews were actually massacred in the Lyady area, according to Yad Vashem:

The Germans occupied Lyady on July 18, 1941. Only some of Lyady’s Jews were evacuated (via the railway station seven kilometers from the town), and many who attempted to escape were forced to turn back. In March 1942, all of Lyady’s Jewish inhabitants, along with Jews who had arrived from other localities, were forced into a ghetto. The Lyady ghetto was liquidated at the beginning of April 1942. Only five Jews who were in Lyady during the Nazi occupation survived.

http://www.yadvashem.org/untoldstories/database/index.asp?cid=489

So it's quite probable that the photo indeed shows corpses of murdered Jews. The comment that only a few of the remains shown look like corpses I don't understand. They all look like corpses to me.

Hannover wrote:Image
supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility


The caption of this photo is "Belorussia, Corpses, probably of Soviet POWs in Dulag 131, winter 1941". It is not claimed that the people whose corpses are shown have been shot, or that they are Jews. Other comments see above. I don't understand why this photo is shown twice, by the way.

Hannover wrote:Image
supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility


I see no reason why blood should be distinguishable on a black and white photograph whose resolution is not the best, of people who at least mostly look like they have been shot in the head or neck while lying down and whose blood would flow onto the corpses below them according to the law of gravity. The photo's identification in the Yad Vashem archives is the following:
Title: Proskurov, Ukraine, Bodies of local residents who were tortured and murdered by the Germans.
Archival Signature: 4147/11
Name of submitter: באמצעות
Source: The National Archives for Photos & Films, Kiev
Credit: The National Archives for Photos & Films, Kiev
Places: Proskurov,Proskurov City,Kamenets Podolsk,Ukraine (USSR),Ukraine (USSR)


There are several online sources (which will be provided upon request) according to which the Jewish population of Proskurov (today Khmelnytsky) was murdered by the Nazis during World War II. The positioning of the corpses is also in line with mass shootings by mobile killing squads according to a method implemented by SS-Obergruppenführer Friedrich Jeckeln, who also organized the massacre at Kamenets-Podolsky (see below). It is not realistic to expect that the Jewishness of the victims or the perpetrators should be visible on the photograph. Both follows from other evidence, which the photograph merely corroborates and illustrates.

Hannover wrote:Image
supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility


Regarding the "no blood" argument, see above. The resolution of the photograph is even worse than that of the previous one, making the expectation of blood visible on this black-and-white photograph even more unrealistic. Unlike in the previous photograph the location and context of this photograph are not known, but the amount and positioning of corpses, and the fact that they are obviously of both sexes, suggests what is known from other evidence about the way Jews were massacred by mobile killing units in the occupied territories of the Soviet Union.

Hannover wrote:Image
bizarre compilation with vegetation thrown in, supposedly shot, but no blood, no proof that these are jews, no proof they were 'holocaust' victims, no proof of German responsibility


I see no evidence or indication of a compilation or the presence of vegetation. It rather looks like some of the dead people shown in this photograph had their skulls blown open by shots fired at close range and their brain matter came out. As to the "no blood" remark, see above - this photo is of even less quality than the previous ones, so the expectation to distinguish blood on it is even less realistic. This photograph, like two other photographs shown below:

Image

Image

has been attributed to the Kamenets-Podolsky massacre in late August 1941, which is addressed in my article under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.pt/2013/02/the-kamenets-podolsky-massacre_12.html. The submitter stated that he had obtained the photographs from Hungarian officers, which is realistic insofar as Hungarian troops were present on site. A part of the massacre's victims were Hungarian Jews.

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby roberto » 2 years 4 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:45 pm)

Hannover wrote:Imagine Roberto or anyone from the "Holocau$t Industry" in court:
'Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, ... but, but, well, umm, we can't show the court. You must trust us, we're Zionists.'

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous 'holocaust' storyline is the message.


A legitimate court in the US or the German Federal Republic wouldn't dismiss a case for mass murder on grounds of the related mass graves not being "shown", however that is supposed to be done. It will base its conclusions on all evidence that is at its disposal, be it eyewitness, documentary or physical evidence. For instance, the Nuremberg Military Tribunal at the Einsatzgruppen Trial, whose proceedings were conducted according to US rules of evidence, based its conclusions on German documents found to be authentic, eyewitness testimonies and depositions of accused perpetrators, without a single mass grave being "shown" to the court. So did courts of the German Federal Republic, a constitutional state applying defendant-friendly procedural laws. Occasionally the evidence provided to or procured by the latter included Soviet investigation reports illustrated with photographs, but these were not a must.

The quoted statement also suggests a lack of knowledge as to how evidence of mass graves is introduced at a trial. It is introduced through reports from expert witnesses and testimonies of such expert witnesses before the court, who are then subjected to cross-examination. Such expert witnesses may show the court photographs they took at mass grave sites to impress the court and render cross-examining defense attorneys less secure, but it is nowhere stated that they must show such photographs to the court.

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:34 am)

Roberto is part of the 'industry' whether he likes it or not. On the matter of pictures that are apparently, according to him, not now claimed to be full of dead jews, they should be on any holocaust web site then. The clear inference when posting pictures of bodies on a holocaust promotion website, is that they are jews. The viewer is left in no doubt that the bodies are probably jews. This is deceitful. It is leading.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby roberto » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:01 pm)

borjastick wrote:Roberto is part of the 'industry' whether he likes it or not.


What "Industry" exactly is that supposed to be, and why would a private citizen doing research on his own initiative have anything to do with it?

borjastick wrote:On the matter of pictures that are apparently, according to him, not now claimed to be full of dead jews, they should be on any holocaust web site then.


Not according to me but according to Yad Vashem's captions expressly mentioning Soviet prisoners of war. And I don't see why an organization dedicated to documenting Nazi crimes should not also document Nazi crimes against non-Jews.

borjastick wrote:The clear inference when posting pictures of bodies on a holocaust promotion website, is that they are jews. The viewer is left in no doubt that the bodies are probably jews. This is deceitful. It is leading.


Actually no such inference is justified regarding a site that also features pictures expressly captioned as showing dead Soviet prisoners of war (the overwhelming majority of which were not Jews).

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:20 am)

The Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please show us the excavated enormous mass graves that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
Is that:
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?

And BTW, here's yet another faked photo from The Roberto Collection.

Image
'Shot dead nude women' with no bullet holes, no blood, and 'shooters' who are not in German uniforms.

And we're told that it was all 'Top Secret', but then we're supposed to believe guys just went around and snapped pictures willy nilly.
That dog don't hunt.

This photo used to be at the Wikipedia page on 'Babi Yar', it has been removed.
see:
Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
more:
'Photos'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10794

- Hannover

Stauffenberg & Co. never claimed anything like an extermination program as one of their motives for their attempted coup.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby CWhite » 2 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:03 pm)

Roberto:

Needless to say, I'm not "ignoring" or "dodging" anything.


Roberto:

Sobibór: ...An archaeological investigation by core drilling in 2001 identified seven graves containing cremation remains, with the larger graves also containing corpses in wax-fat transformation in the bottom layers. No excavation was carried out as doing so would have contravened Jewish religious beliefs... Subsequent archaeological research focused in finding the gas chamber building. Excavating in the mass graves was not permitted by Jewish religious authorities, thus there were only some peripheral excavations in the course of which large amounts of bone fragments were found. Also found was on additional mass grave containing only cremation remains. One excavation found corpses in a rather shallow mass grave, which may or not have been related to Sobibór's operation as an extermination camp.


Roberto, do you deny that on page 7 (figure 6) of this link here:

http://sobibor.info.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Report-by-Y.Haimi-Autumn-2013.pdf

there is a map showing the locations and relative size of 16 graves allegedly located / proven to exist at Sobibor - Yes. - or - No. - ??


Also, do you deny that your buddy "Nessie" has answered the following questions with the following answers:


When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 16 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 16 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 16 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 16 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes


47 - The MAXIMUM number of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 16

#48 - The MAXIMUM number of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 16


Yes. - or - No. - ??

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:10 am)

borjastick wrote:Roberto is part of the 'industry' whether he likes it or not. On the matter of pictures that are apparently, according to him, not now claimed to be full of dead jews, they should be on any holocaust web site then. The clear inference when posting pictures of bodies on a holocaust promotion website, is that they are jews. The viewer is left in no doubt that the bodies are probably jews. This is deceitful. It is leading.


Of course I meant to say should not be on any holocaust web site then.

The point I hope I made was that the jews and holocaust supporters are so desperate to be seen as the only victims in this whole thing and so desperate to expand the death rate of the event they will use any pictures as shown above, and leave the reader to believe these are all jews who were killed by Germans in their holocaust.

This happens all over the place and is downright deceitful and of course wrong.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby CWhite » 2 years 4 months ago (Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:01 am)

Roberto:

Needless to say, I'm not "ignoring" or "dodging" anything.


Roberto:

Treblinka: Also here most of the victims' corpses were cremated,.. postwar crime site investigations found an area of ca. 1.8 hectares covered by cremation remains as well as larger human remains (bones and skulls), which were present in the soil to a depth of 7.5 meters as established by excavation. Reports about this investigation as well as photos taken in the course thereof, which show parts of what the reports describe, have been published on the internet and can be shown upon request. A recent archaeological survey using non-invasive geophysical methods discovered several pits considered to be mass graves or parts of mass graves.



Well then Roberto, you have been requested to point out to us on this map, which allegedly shows the results of the "recent archaeological survey using non-invasive geophysical methods [which] discovered several pits considered to be mass graves or parts of mass graves.:

Image

which one is the "huge mass grave" that allegedly contains "cremation remains as well as larger human remains (bones and skulls), which were present in the soil to a depth of 7.5 meters as established by excavation"?

Remember as well Roberto, what your buddy Nessie has said about these alleged "huge mass graves" of "Treblinka II:

I have always said there is proof of mass graves... As for trash pits, they have been found as well. They are not phantom trash pits.


When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 11 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Treblinka II is not the burial site of at least 813,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains


#27 - Is it known - with the utmost certainty - that; legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of numerous discernable / measurable extant mass graves within the boundaries of each of the Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II camps - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes.

#49 - The MAXIMUM number of the 11 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 11

#50 - The MAXIMUM number of the 11 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 11

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby CWhite » 2 years 4 months ago (Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:06 am)

Roberto:

Needless to say, I'm not "ignoring" or "dodging" anything.


Roberto:

The challenge pertains specifically to the 1,419,467 Jews that I can prove actually set foot in Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor or Treblinka II, and that I can prove were killed and buried in the camps to which they were deported.


Roberto:

That's about what can be said about human corpses or the remains thereof at the aforementioned places, in a nutshell. All above information can be duly substantiated with sources, if requested.


Well then Roberto, before I request that you "duly substantiate - with sources" your unsubstantiated allegations, please tell us:

#49 - The MAXIMUM number of the 11 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

#50 - The MAXIMUM number of the 11 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby CWhite » 2 years 4 months ago (Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:19 am)

Roberto:

Needless to say, I'm not "ignoring" or "dodging" anything.


Well Roberto, I just found these questions to you about Treblinka II on that "other site" that you are ignoring / dodging:

Roberto, after you posted those photos, I think it would be appropriate for you to answer Nessie's (that he lacks the courage, integrity and character to answer) questions as well

Q #13 - Is it known - with 100% certainty - that mass graves were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp and the cremated remains of no less than 800,000 jews are still there?

Yes. - or - No. - ??

If your answer is - Yes. - then; How many mass graves is it known - with 100% certainty - were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

Q #14 - Has it ever been proven - beyond a shadow of a doubt - that mass graves were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp and the cremated remains of no less than 800,000 jews are still there?

Yes. - or - No. - ??

If your answer is - Yes. - then; How many mass graves been proven - beyond a shadow of a doubt - were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

Q #15 - Is it known - with the utmost certainty - that mass graves were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp and the cremated remains of no less than 800,000 jews are still there?

Yes. - or - No. - ??

If your answer is - Yes. - then; How many mass graves is it known - with the utmost certainty - were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

Q #16 - Has it ever been proven - beyond a reasonable doubt - that mass graves were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp and the cremated remains of no less than 800,000 jews are still there?

Yes. - or - No. - ??

If your answer is - Yes. - then; How many mass graves been proven - beyond a reasonable doubt - were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

Q #17 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that mass graves were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp and the cremated remains of no less than 800,000 jews are still there?

Yes. - or - No. - ??

If your answer is - Yes. - then; How many mass graves can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - were dug within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

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Re: Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp claims these faked 'photos' are proof of 'holocaust'

Postby Hektor » 9 months 2 weeks ago (Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:26 am)

roberto wrote:...
Hannover wrote:As has been said, debunking the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' really is too easy.


Actually the claimed debunking is what is impossible, due to the fact that all known documentary, eyewitness, physical and demographic evidence substantiates the historical record whereby between 5 and 6 million Jews and well over 5 million others (mainly Soviet prisoners of war, civilians who starved to death during the siege of Leningrad and civilian victims of massacres in the course of anti-partisan warfare, to a smaller extent Gypsies, disabled people and members of other minority groups) were killed in criminal actions by Nazi Germany and/or its European allies, while on the other hand there is no evidence substantiating any alternative scenario, such as mass emigration of Jews from Europe or deportation of those that history considers to have been killed in extermination camps via transit camps in occupied Poland to the Reichskommisariat Ostland, the Reichskommissariat Ukraine or the Soviet territories under German military administration.
...


Whatever is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

No, it doesn't. The documentary, eyewitness, physical and demographic evidence DOES NOT support the core Holocaust claims. In fact, it makes almost any alternative scenario more plausible.

As for the siege of Leningrad, you can place the blame for the civilian victims on Stalin's side. Since he insisted on keeping civilians in the city, which he was unable to sustain. They could btw. have retreated at any time. I mention this, because this shows the ongoing blame-shifting onto the German/Axis side.

As for the "extermination camps", which didn't even have crematoria, where are the corpses of the 1 million plus Jews Holocaustians insist were killed and cremated there?


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