David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

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HeiligeSturm
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David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

Postby HeiligeSturm » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:34 pm)

David Olere - The hardest working sonderkommando

David Olere is known for his Holocaust artworks mixing horror and elements of pornography.
David Olere was supposedly working as one of the sonderkommandos in Krema III.
Besides this, "He saw the so-called medical experiments performed on the weak and the sick and the old. He saw the SS rape and torture young Jewish girls" and "he was forced to work as an illustrator and to write and decorate letters for the SS."
https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/arts/DOBio/DOGaller.htm
Obviously he was also able to freely wander around the camp area.
hermod wrote:According to the Holocaust narrative, the Jews of the Sonderkommandos lived, ate and slept in the Crematoria (or in separate barracks & blocks) and they were not allowed to leave those places and talk to the other inmates.

More here:
Security measures at Birkenau?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8704&p=66387&hilit=security+measures#p66387
When the camp was evacuated, he wasn't (by some miracle I guess) recognized by the SS men and executed as potential witness to
the atrocities perpetrated by the SS. He managed to survive even the death march.

The elevator switching place or at least model

"He was the first to draw the plans and cross-sections of the crematories in order to explain exactly how the Nazis ran their death factory"
https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/arts/DOBio/DOGaller.htm
In this cross-section made by Olere we can see the text monte-charge des victimes.
Olere1.jpg
Olere1.jpg (184.75 KiB) Viewed 1520 times

(Robert Jan Van Pelt: The Case For Auschwitz, 176.)
Monte-charge translates as goods lift/elevator.
Olere suggests it was elevator for transporting the victims (corpses).
On the other side of his cross-section we can see the SS guards room.
Olere2.jpg
Olere2.jpg (175.35 KiB) Viewed 1520 times

(Robert Jan Van Pelt: The Case For Auschwitz, page 177.)

But in Olere's The Oven Room drawing the elevator is where the SS guards room is supposed to be.
Olere3.jpg
Olere3.jpg (976.71 KiB) Viewed 1520 times

This drawing could be depicting Krema III, like claimed, as it was mirrored version of Krema II.
"A freight elevator in the background brought bodies up from the basement gassing chamber of Crematorium III at Birkenau."
https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery2/D57.htm
The elevator, however, seems to be much bigger than in his cross-section of Krema II/III and one doorway is missing behind it
and the other next to it.
The elevator supposedly was "300 kg capacity goods hoist used in Krematorium II"
Jean-Claude Pressac: Auschwitz: The Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, page 488
https://www.historiography-project.com/ ... tz/488.php

His workplace at Krema III or II? Or at all?

kremaII & III Pressac.jpg
kremaII & III Pressac.jpg (150.56 KiB) Viewed 1520 times

(Picture from Pressac: Auschwitz: The Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers)
Krematorium III was built as mirror image of Krema II
and the ovens would have been on the wall facing the railroad tracks. (Chimney side of the building)
Let's assume that Olere actually worked at Krema III.
But for some reason, being a sonderkommando at Krematorium III
he was able to create a cross-section of Krematorium II which is the mirror image of Krema III.
Olere Krema cross.jpg
Olere Krema cross.jpg (257.82 KiB) Viewed 1520 times

In The Case for Auschwitz, page 176 Van Pelt explains the reason for this: "Olére turned the five triple-muffle ovens
180° so that the muffles are visible."

So it's the mirror image with partly mirrored features, namely the ovens.
Van Pelt seems to be happy with this and thinks it's the cross-section of Krema III.

In this scale model of Krematorium II (on display in the permanent exhibition of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum and
at State Museum of Auschwitz) we can see the elevator and the SS room.
Olere4.jpg
Olere4.jpg (318.4 KiB) Viewed 1520 times

Olere made his cross-section drawing in 1946 and it shows
the elevator in the same place as in Mieczyslaw Stobierski's scale model.

The Oven Room drawing was made already in 1945 and this is supposed to be the place where Olere worked
on a daily basis.
After all he made a drawing how SS men were watching the cremation.
watching the burning of the dead – picture by David Olére.png
watching the burning of the dead – picture by David Olére.png (79.78 KiB) Viewed 1520 times

In Pressac: Auschwitz: The Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers page 488
it is claimed that the SS room or Capo's room [sic] is in Krematorium III.
"If this scene had taken place in Krematorium II, the furnace doors would have faced left and would have been visible through the right hand side of the window."
https://www.historiography-project.com/ ... tz/488.php
So if Pressac was right, there should be at least one of the outer windows visible in the furnace room
("visible through the right hand side of the [inner] window") as this is supposed to be from mirror image of Krema II.
Olere had drawn windows in The Oven Room.
In Krema II there would have been one window almost next to the left hand side of the SS room window.
kremaII 1.jpg
kremaII 1.jpg (208.08 KiB) Viewed 1520 times


SSPŠ Auschwitz Projects model pictures of Krema II:
Image
Image

Image
Olere's The Oven Room drawing is missing the other doorway next to the elevator and doorway behind the elevator.
(I think there is some excuse for it. )
Apparently the mentioned drawing served as some kind of inspiration for this picture:
Image

Exceptional value of Olere's work

"The documentary value of the sketches and paintings of David Olère is tremendous."
https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource ... /olere.htm
His partly mirrored cross-sections, sketches and paintings are not to be trusted as historical documents.
Some of his artwork are contradicting themselves. So much for the tremendous documentary value.
There is still however the shock value of his stalag porn quality horror pictures.

"The work of David Olère has exceptional documentary value."
https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/arts/DOBio/DOGaller.htm
Yes but not for those who believe his depiction of Holocaust or even his claimed workplace at crematorium.

Everyone should be able to draw his home and/or workplace with decent accuracy without mirroring even parts of it.
But somehow Olere, by his artwork, managed to convince Jean-Claude Pressac and Robert Jan Van Pelt
among others that his depictions are accurate.

More about the appraised sonderkommando artist:
David Olere - resident artist of the Holocaust - oops
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2661&hilit=david+olere
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe

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Re: David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

Postby Hannover » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:05 pm)

The actual single elevator in each of the typhus abatement crematoriums II & III was about 4 ft X 9 ft., about the size of a diving board, it was hand operated.

Yet the "Holocau$t Industry" claims that 2,000 or more 'gassed' corpses could be moved up to the crematorium 'ovens' above in that single tiny elevator in a few minutes. :lol:

more here:
'claim: 2000 'gassed Jews' per batch / but only one Elevator'
viewtopic.php?t=2378

For a thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at:
http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywo ... sf=msgonly

- Hannover

According to alleged "holocaust eyewitness" Henryk Tauber, corpses could be cremated in 5-7 minutes.
If you question that in many countries you will imprisoned.

See more on the highly cited Henryk Tauber here:
'Industry's Roberto Muehlenkamp cites debunked liar Henryk Tauber as proof of Auschwitz 'gas chambers' !!'

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11279
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

Postby HeiligeSturm » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:58 pm)

Hannover wrote:The actual single elevator in each of the typhus abatement crematoriums II & III was about 4 ft X 9 ft., about the size of a diving board, it was hand operated.

Yet the "Holocau$t Industry" claims that 2,000 or more 'gassed' corpses could be moved up to the crematorium 'ovens' above in that single tiny elevator in a few minutes. :lol:


I forgot to quote Pressac in the original post:
"It was subsequently replaced by a 1500 kg capacity Demag goods lift. "
Auschwitz: The Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, page 488
Olere's 1945 drawing The Oven Room seems to have this goods lift installed (despite the bigger room needed for it)
but in his 1946 cross-section it's the hand operated version with 300 kg capacity.
And "Auschwitz expert" Van Pelt used that cross-section in his book. :blackeye:
Some expert :clap:
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe

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Re: David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

Postby Hannover » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:44 pm)

HeiligeSturm wrote:I forgot to quote Pressac in the original post:
"It was subsequently replaced by a 1500 kg capacity Demag goods lift. "
Auschwitz: The Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, page 488
Olere's 1945 drawing The Oven Room seems to have this goods lift installed (despite the bigger room needed for it)
but in his 1946 cross-section it's the hand operated version with 300 kg capacity.
And "Auschwitz expert" Van Pelt used that cross-section in his book. :blackeye: Some expert :clap:

I see no indication that Olere drew this allegedly much larger elevator. Please show me. :)
As for Pressac, what proof does he offer for his alleged "1500 kg capacity Demag goods lift"?
I have never seen it. Apparently no one else has either. :lol:

more from:
A New Affirmationist Study on Auschwitz
By Carlo Mattogno
https://codoh.com/library/document/4433/?lang=en
"There follows another tehnical discussion, likewise based on German documents, concerning an elevator with a capacity of 300 kg which was installed in Crematorium II as a temporary device, but remained in permanent use, contrary to the unfounded claim of van Pelt that it was replaced with another elevator having a capacity of 1,500 kg (but which in fact was mounted in crematorium III). In order to bring the alleged 500,000 corpses from the semi-basement to the furnace room on the ground floor, the elevator would have had to make 100,000 trips up and down. This would mean 231 transports a day, each lasting 6 minutes, without interruption, day and night on all of the approximately 430 days during which the crematorium actually was in operation, without ever a mishap occuring and without a moment's rest!"
and:
Neither Trace nor Proof
The Seven Auschwitz 'Gassing' Sites According to Jean-Claude Pressac

By Enrique Aynat Eknes
https://codoh.com/library/document/2326/?lang=en
"After removal of the corpses from the gas chamber,the next procedure was hauling them to the crematory room for incineration. Given that Leichenkeller 1 was below groundand the ovens were at ground level, a freight elevator had been installed. According to Pressac, at first a provisional elevator with a capacity of three or four cadavers was used. Later the workers used a permanent elevator, capable of lifting 10 or 15 bodies at a time (p. 253). From that we may infer that in order to take 1,000 or 1,500 corpses [actually the claims are 2000-3000] up to the ovens with the provisional freight elevator, 67 to 100 trips would be required. If we consider hypothetically that the process of loading, ascending, and unloading the cadavers and taking the freight elevator back down took five minutes, it would have required a half day's incessant labor to get all the corpses to the ovens. In any case, it is evident that the work of hoisting so many bodies in such a small freight elevator would have been most cumbersome, and that the Germans could easily have avoided such a nuisance by building the gas chamber at ground level. Besides, building a gas chamber below ground was harder work and more expense. The excavation and construction took place in marshy ground, requiring that the floor, ceiling and walls all be waterproofed with a material which was both scarce and costly during the war."

- Hannover

Jews tell us that murdered Jews went to huge mass graves that they know the locations of.
So why don't they excavate the alleged enormous 'mass graves', show the world the millions of Jew corpses, and prove their point?
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

Postby HeiligeSturm » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:20 pm)

Hannover wrote:I see no indication that Olere drew this allegedly much larger elevator. Please show me. :)
As for Pressac, what proof does he offer for his alleged "1500 kg capacity Demag goods lift"?
I have never seen it. Apparently no one else has either. :lol:


This was in my original post, The Oven Room, 1945:
Olere3.jpg
Olere3.jpg (976.71 KiB) Viewed 1481 times

It seems to be the very modern version of the elevator supposedly in Krema III. No buttons or levers seen.
But the SS must have missed the good ol' hand operated lift and changed it back. :D
Again I point to the years in Olere's drawings, both in my original post.

This is the only "proof" of Pressac (besides Olere's drawings):
The order for its construction is to be found in the “Metal working” file, Annex 15 of Volume 11 of the Höss trial:

“Order No 61 of 15/2/43 — POW camp Krematorium II/III BW 30.
Subject: 1 goods lift with a minimum payload of 300 kg. including the fitting of suitable winches, cable and motor and the guide rail.
Order No 2563/:146:/ of 26/1/43 from the Bauleitung.
Order taken over from the former prisoners’ metalworking shop. Completed on 13/3/43.”

https://www.historiography-project.com/ ... tz/488.php

I would like to see the original document.
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe

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Re: David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

Postby Hannover » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:30 pm)

HeiligeSturm:
So we have a drawing which doesn't show what you claim and an alleged order ("Order No 61 of 15/2/43 — POW camp Krematorium II/III BW 30") that you nor anyone else can show.

And using your link: https://www.historiography-project.com/ ... tz/488.php
this is supposed to be a "provisional" version (which was allegedly found in a storage barn) of your amazing elevator which cannot be shown to have existed.
Image
caption:
"Photograph [PMO neg. no. 205/37] of a provisional 300 kg capacity goods hoist used in Krematorium II [9], found in the Bauhof in 1945."

Hilarious.
And you ignored my previous references.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

Postby HeiligeSturm » 1 year 2 months ago (Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:16 am)

Hannover wrote:HeiligeSturm:
So we have a drawing which doesn't show what you claim and an alleged order ("Order No 61 of 15/2/43 — POW camp Krematorium II/III BW 30") that you nor anyone else can show.

And using your link: https://www.historiography-project.com/ ... tz/488.php
this is supposed to be a "provisional" version (which was allegedly found in a storage barn) of your amazing elevator which cannot be shown to have existed.
Image
caption:
"Photograph [PMO neg. no. 205/37] of a provisional 300 kg capacity goods hoist used in Krematorium II [9], found in the Bauhof in 1945."

Hilarious.
And you ignored my previous references.

- Hannover


I think you missed my point.
If you read what I wrote, Olere's drawing is trying to make people believe that there was this bigger elevator.
I'm not the one who claims that Order No 61 of 15/2/43 exists. Pressac fell for it.
My amazing elevator? No, it's Olere's and Pressac's amazing elevator.
I wrote (sarcasm with emphasis):
HeiligeSturm wrote:It seems to be the very modern version of the elevator supposedly in Krema III. No buttons or levers seen.

So it really is amazing, because it cannot be shown to have existed.
And no, I didn't ignore your previous references.
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe

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Re: David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

Postby Hannover » 1 year 2 months ago (Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:13 pm)

I understand your point, which was an attempt to tie in a fake, now debunked, claim by Pressac to a drawing by Olere.

Cheers, Hannover

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
- Arthur Schopenhauer
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: David Olere - The creator of crematoria for Pressac, Van Pelt and others

Postby HeiligeSturm » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:56 pm)

I found this from another forum some time ago:
"an electric lift would raise the entire chamber to a vast crematorium"
[img]The%20Hidden%20Europe%20p.125.jpg[/img]
The Hidden Europe p.125

This is like the story of trainloads going straight to the ovens. BS.
Attachments
The Hidden Europe p.125.jpg
The Hidden Europe p.125.jpg (544.22 KiB) Viewed 321 times
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe


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