Please destroy this one for me / cyanide use in morgues

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Juan
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Please destroy this one for me / cyanide use in morgues

Postby Juan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:08 pm)

[topic title enhanced by Moderator3]

Nizkorite claim:

http://www.nizkor.com/faqs/leuchter/leu ... aq-07.html

Holocaust denial often claims that the "alleged" extermination chambers were actually morgues, and that Zyklon-B was used in them as a disinfectant.

This claim stems from the fact that Hydrocyanic compounds were found on the ventilation grills of the gas chambers in Krema II and III (the chemical analysis was carried out by Dr. Jan Robel of the Cracow Forensic Institute in December 1945, and was part of the evidence in the trial of Auschwitz commander Höss). This proves that gassing did take place in that chamber - but since this runs contrary to the deniers claims that it was an underground morgue, they claimed "a morgue is disinfected with Zyklon-B."

The Cracow Institute of Forensic Research report which followed release of the Leuchter Report is available within our archives.

Unfortunately for the people offering this assertion as truth, Zyklon-B is useless for disinfecting corpses, as it does not kill anaerobic bacteria - it kills only aerobic organisms.

Finally, the "morgue" is specifically referred to as a "gassing cellar" in a letter from the Auschwitz construction department to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943. Why call a morgue "gassing cellar?" And why is the other underground room called "undressing cellar?" (see Pressac, p. 221; also The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe, 1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158. These documents are reproduced in the "AUSCHWITZ" section of the file "Original Nazi Documents", together with other documents about the process of gassing in Auschwitz).

The following correspondence between an SS officer and the firm which manufactured the crematoriums shows that the underground cellars in Kremas II and III were to be preheated. Needless to say, this proves that they were not designed to serve as morgues; it does not make much sense to heat a morgue. It does make sense to heat a homicidal gas chamber, to facilitate the evaporation of the Zyklon-B.

"Letter from SS-Sturmbannführer Jahrling to Topf & Sons, March 6 1943

Subject: KL Auschwitz Krematorien II and III

In accordance with your suggestion, the service agrees that cellar 1 should be preheated with the air coming from the rooms of the 3 forced draught installations. The supply and installation of the ductwork and blowers necessary to this end are to be effected as soon as possible. As you point out in your above-mentioned letter, execution should commence this week. We would ask you to send in triplicate detailed quote for supply and installation.

At the same time, we would ask you to send an additional quotation for the modification of the air-extraction installation in the undressing room." (Pressac, 221)


I had 2 doubts:

1. This alleged letter asking for preheating. I believe that you would still need to heat the morgue in cold winters. Confirm this.

2. Remnants of HCN at morgue ventilation ducts, by Cracow Forensic Institute.

Sorry if this amounts to more than one topic.

Thanks, Juan

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Postby Secret Anne X » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:12 pm)

Hi,

This is just the typical BS.

The basements of Krema II could have had Zyklon B used in them at some time. The argument that Zyklon B won't kill anaerobic bacteria is stupid becaue the only reason they would use it would be to kill bugs who carry disease, such as lice who carry typhus.

Hate to beat a dead horse, here, but I am going to call on Fritjof Meyer here, since he is a believer and a sort of revisionist at the same time.

Meyer concedes that in fact dead bodies could be "treated" with Zyklon B to kill the lice the bodies would carry. That's a perfectly reasonable use.

Remember that a person who dies from typhus is going to be INFESTED with lice. After death, the lice, all of them disease bearing, will flee the corpse looking for new hosts. I can't think of a better way to treat the bodies of many typhus dead than by fumigating them with Zyklon.

However, I really don't think this was done often, just because there are so little cyanide traces (see Rudolf's Report!)

Now, chemical tests. The Polish commies did two. They tested hair which came back positive for cyanide. They tested grills that they think (no one knows) were in the crematoriums. They came back positive. Problems:

1. The results are not quantified.
2. The results are not repeatable.
3. The grills tested seem to have disappeared.
4. Would you trust communists?

The "hair test" came back positive, but that is completely consistent with zapping hair after it is cut off with Zyklon B. The believer alternative is insane: it is said that the people were killed, then their hair was cut off, then the hair was washed, then it was hung out to dry, then it was bagged.

First problem with this is that by washing the hair the cyanide would seem to be removed ..... so how can there be traces of it?

The "Vergasungskeller" thing has been deal with a million times. Same with the "Undressing Cellar" That is why Meyer gave it up in the face of recent research by Mattogno, Rufolf, Crowell and those guys:

>>Even if the capacity of the crematories had been greater, the additional capacity would not have been needed, in view of the numbers of persons transported. For this reason new uses for the building were found, including housing for special detail prisoners, air raid shelter, and bathing and sanitary facility. <<

In other words, Meyer concedes that the showers were real, that there were bomb shelter conversions, that dry heat disinfection setups were installed, blah blah blah.

As to that last thing, the heated air duct, that's clearly a throwback to an attempt to use the heat from the crematorium ovens for other purposes.


[/quote]

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Re: Please destroy this one for me

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:16 pm)

Juan wrote:I had 2 doubts:

1. This alleged letter asking for preheating. I believe that you would still need to heat the morgue in cold winters. Confirm this.

You may want to consult:

5.4.1.2.5. Pre-heated Morgues
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/5.html#5.4.1.2.5.

2. Remnants of HCN at morgue ventilation ducts, by Cracow Forensic Institute.

Sorry if this amounts to more than one topic.

Thanks, Juan

The corpses of all dead people were undressed in the undressing room before they were cremated.

The clothes of people who died of an infectious disease were incinerated, the clothes of all he others were disinfested and reused.

It is possible that morgue 1 served as a temporary fumigation chamber early 1943, when several normal disinfestation facilities suffered from a fire and were out of service.

fge

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Postby Juan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:52 pm)

It is possible that morgue 1 served as a temporary fumigation chamber early 1943, when several normal disinfestation facilities suffered from a fire and were out of service.


The morgue couldn't be used as a "gas chamber" (lice-holocaust gas chamber I mean :lol: ) because Rudolf had proven otherwise from the exposure to cyanide gases. We risk a believer hanging from your statement to "prove" human beings were gassed there.

The disinfestation facilities being out of service in 1943 is news for me.

Correct me if I'm wrong

Cheers

Juan

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Postby Temporary on hold » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:01 pm)

I believe you need to triangulate this with claimed gassing rates for the Morgue. If you look at the Zyklon amounts used and their duration in the delousing chamber and then look at the same from the Morgue you would get a better indicator than these documents. Forensics are normally primary in any investigation. Cyanide exposure is the best forensic.

Rudolf assembles this best as far as I know. We can see the extreme signs the delousing chamber provides for cyanide (although Green tries to divert around this). The key is to accept the exterminationist maximum for the Morgue and apply the proper forensics. Then go and look at all the chamber scrubbing, pellet removal, short exposure chemical reactions vs long, etc that crops up in order to account for the lack of cyanide evidence in the Morgue...

In my opinion those who press this document angle should be forced to examine the roof portal forensics and be made to account for them thoroughly. This is the first and most important piece of evidence for Morgue I...

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:40 pm)

Juan wrote:The morgue couldn't be used as a "gas chamber" (lice-holocaust gas chamber I mean ) because Rudolf had proven otherwise from the exposure to cyanide gases. We risk a believer hanging from your statement to "prove" human beings were gassed there.


Where did Rudolf prove that the morgue 1 Krema II could not be used as a temporary fumigation chamber?

The disinfestation facilities being out of service in 1943 is news for me


»Bischoff wrote on January 9 1943 a letter to Kammler about the "Hygienic Installations in the K.L. and K.G.L. Auschwitz" listing all desinfestation- and delousing installations available. There were five in KL Auschwitz and four in KGL Birkenau.[26]

However during the following days failed due to fires the hot air apparatus designed by Topf in Block 1 of the main camp, the hot air apparatus fabricated by Hochheim in the desinfestation barracks for men and women, i.e. the delousing barracks BW 5a and 5b, and finally the hot air delousing equipment for the "army desinfestation installation".[27]


[26] RGVA, 502-1-332, S. 46-46a
[27] Bischoff-Brief »an den Kommandanten des KL Auschwitz - SS-Obersturmbannführer Höß« vom 18. Januar 1943. RGVA, 502-1-28, S. 256-258.

Source:
Die Leichenkeller der Krematorien von Birkenau im Lichte der Dokumente
(The morgues of the Crematoria in Birkenau in the Light of the Documents)
By Carlo Mattogno
http://vho.org/VffG/2003/3/Mattogno357-365.html


fge

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Re: Please destroy this one for me / cyanide use in morgues

Postby spaceboy » 7 years 3 months ago (Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:30 pm)

Sorry for resurrecting an ancient thread, but I just thought most of Nizkor's article was ridiculous.

Nizkor states, "Holocaust denial often claims that the "alleged" extermination chambers were actually morgues, and that Zyklon-B was used in them as a disinfectant."

Reading this statement, Nizkor acts as if the notion that the AHGCs were ever morgues is a falsehood, when in actuality--to my knowledge anyway--most mainstream holocaust historians accept that the AHGCs were morgues, but they believe they were later converted into gas chambers. From the blueprints, the AHGC and the supposed undressing room are labelled as Leichenkeller 1 and 2. If you go to Google Translate and translate "Leichenkeller" from German to English, it displays the English result as "Morgue".

Nizkor: "This claim stems from the fact that Hydrocyanic compounds were found on the ventilation grills of the gas chambers in Krema II and III (the chemical analysis was carried out by Dr. Jan Robel of the Cracow Forensic Institute in December 1945, and was part of the evidence in the trial of Auschwitz commander Höss). This proves that gassing did take place in that chamber - but since this runs contrary to the deniers claims that it was an underground morgue, they claimed "a morgue is disinfected with Zyklon-B."

Does the cyanide residue found in the barracks from fumigation contradict the "claims" that the "alleged barracks" were barracks? No.

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Re: Please destroy this one for me / cyanide use in morgues

Postby Mkk » 7 years 2 months ago (Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:33 am)

"Holocaust denial often claims that the "alleged" extermination chambers were actually morgues, and that Zyklon-B was used in them as a disinfectant.

We actually don't claim this. We believe the rooms were morgue, yes, but we don't believe Zyklon B was used in them, bar perhaps the routine disinfestation that happened with other buildings aswell.
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13


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