How much of it was a Soviet invention?

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Hektor
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Re: How much of it was a Soviet invention?

Postby Hektor » 4 months 1 week ago (Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:15 am)

Mortimer wrote:The communist inmates in Buchenwald were very well organised and had the power of life and death over other inmates. It is possible that a lot of the deaths that they were responsible for were blamed on the German administration -
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/10/ ... t-discuss/

Of course it is. The communists, with the cadre discipline, dominated the internal camp administration, which gave them a position of influence and power. This was even published in main stream journals:
https://archive.org/details/CommunistAt ... Buchenwald
Psychological Warfare officers documented this also in a confidential internal report:
https://archive.org/details/EdwardTenen ... waldReport


Communists prepared testimony about concentration camps:
Kogon's chief collaborators were the Socialist writer Ferdinand Romhild; Heinz Baumeister of Dortmund, a Social Democrat; and Stefan Heymann, an orthodox Communist editor with whom Kogon was on excellent terms, although Heymann had been detailed by the Communist leadership in camp to serve as a check on him, Kogon consulted further with Dr. Werner Hilpert, former leader of the Catholic Action in Saxony and chairman of the Catholic Center party in Saxony, as well as with The radical leftist writer Franz Hackct.
https://archive.org/details/EugenKogonT ... ticeOfHell


I should add that Antifascism, which is linked to former camp inmate associations is Communist dominated as well:
The VVN-BdA is characterised as an independent organisation, with a focus of resistance against fascism and war as its defining moral principle. In West Germany, the organisation was seen as taking its lead from the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) in the 1950s, and after 1968 of being controlled from the top by German Communist Party (DKP) members. Nevertheless, the spread of membership continues to come from a wide range of political elements, including orthodox communists, members of the party Die Linke, and political independents, along with Green Party members and Social Democrats (in spite of a dissenting resolution adopted by the Social Democratic Party (SPD), which remained in force till October 25, 2010)....
The 2005 report on political extremism by Germany's Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution considered the VVN-BdA as "influenced by left-wing extremism". It found that
the "Members and former members of the DKP and traditionalist members of the Left Party-PDS still hold important positions of leadership";
"The organisation is thus still predominantly committed to orthodox/communist "anti-fascism", which argues that right-wing extremism is inherently linked to market economy systems and that state institutions in western democracies are thus more likely to support right-wing extremist activity than fight it."
that in this view, "a socialist/communist dictatorship is the only logical alternative to "fascist" threats".[8]
The report acknowledged that the VVN-BdA had, since 1989, stopped describing ultra-left violence and injustice as commendable; nevertheless, Communist crimes were consistently qualified, ignored and even denied.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_ ... azi_Regime

Needless to say that they considerably shaped the narrative about concentration camps and National Socialism after the war as well. Those ranting about "evil Nazis" in most cases do have some Communist or Marxist affiliation, even if that was just them being in some student group during their university days. They are also quick to defend (or deny) when Communists are accused to something.
Maybe they'd admit that Stalin was a bad guy, but Lenin wasn't as bad. Mass death in the Soviet Union are "due to famine", as if the policies didn't have anything to do with that. It just happened.

The Holocaust is a convenient decoy for Communists to distract from their crimes and disastrous policies.



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Re: How much of it was a Soviet invention?

Postby Hektor » 4 months 1 week ago (Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:23 am)

Hektor wrote:
Mortimer wrote:The communist inmates in Buchenwald were very well organised and had the power of life and death over other inmates. It is possible that a lot of the deaths that they were responsible for were blamed on the German administration -
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/10/ ... t-discuss/

Of course it is. The communists, with the cadre discipline, dominated the internal camp administration, which gave them a position of influence and power. This was even published in main stream journals:
https://archive.org/details/CommunistAt ... Buchenwald
Psychological Warfare officers documented this also in a confidential internal report:
https://archive.org/details/EdwardTenen ... waldReport


Communists prepared testimony about concentration camps:
Kogon's chief collaborators were the Socialist writer Ferdinand Romhild; Heinz Baumeister of Dortmund, a Social Democrat; and Stefan Heymann, an orthodox Communist editor with whom Kogon was on excellent terms, although Heymann had been detailed by the Communist leadership in camp to serve as a check on him, Kogon consulted further with Dr. Werner Hilpert, former leader of the Catholic Action in Saxony and chairman of the Catholic Center party in Saxony, as well as with The radical leftist writer Franz Hackct.
https://archive.org/details/EugenKogonT ... ticeOfHell


At the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial a lot of the "witnesses" were provided by the Eastern Bloc countries (I assume documentation came from their as well). The Polish witnesses actually weren't that bad at times, the ones from the GDR were hilarious. Their testimonies are riddled with absurdities and actually underline the falsehood of the Holocaust narrative. They were in Auschwitz because they were Communist, but were also counted as Jews, weren't gassed once, and even received medical treatment to keep them alive. Should I quote from the testimonies to demonstrate what I mean?

I should add that Antifascism, which is linked to former camp inmate associations is Communist dominated as well:
The VVN-BdA is characterised as an independent organisation, with a focus of resistance against fascism and war as its defining moral principle. In West Germany, the organisation was seen as taking its lead from the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) in the 1950s, and after 1968 of being controlled from the top by German Communist Party (DKP) members. Nevertheless, the spread of membership continues to come from a wide range of political elements, including orthodox communists, members of the party Die Linke, and political independents, along with Green Party members and Social Democrats (in spite of a dissenting resolution adopted by the Social Democratic Party (SPD), which remained in force till October 25, 2010)....
The 2005 report on political extremism by Germany's Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution considered the VVN-BdA as "influenced by left-wing extremism". It found that
the "Members and former members of the DKP and traditionalist members of the Left Party-PDS still hold important positions of leadership";
"The organisation is thus still predominantly committed to orthodox/communist "anti-fascism", which argues that right-wing extremism is inherently linked to market economy systems and that state institutions in western democracies are thus more likely to support right-wing extremist activity than fight it."
that in this view, "a socialist/communist dictatorship is the only logical alternative to "fascist" threats".[8]
The report acknowledged that the VVN-BdA had, since 1989, stopped describing ultra-left violence and injustice as commendable; nevertheless, Communist crimes were consistently qualified, ignored and even denied.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_ ... azi_Regime

Needless to say that they considerably shaped the narrative about concentration camps and National Socialism after the war as well. Those ranting about "evil Nazis" in most cases do have some Communist or Marxist affiliation, even if that was just them being in some student group during their university days. They are also quick to defend (or deny) when Communists are accused to something.
Maybe they'd admit that Stalin was a bad guy, but Lenin wasn't as bad. Mass death in the Soviet Union are "due to famine", as if the policies didn't have anything to do with that. It just happened.

The Holocaust is a convenient decoy for Communists to distract from their crimes and disastrous policies.

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Re: How much of it was a Soviet invention?

Postby slob » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:54 am)

Something to ponder??

Were the BBC biased towards Communist Russia?

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Re: How much of it was a Soviet invention?

Postby Werd » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:22 am)

The Jews and the English had a common enemy. In the 40's, was the Germans' turn. But previously, it used to be the Russians who the Jews were complaining about to England.
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/20 ... -question/
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/20 ... trocities/
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/20 ... wish-role/
Jews apparently had a tendency to lie and exaggerate things in order to whip up other people to help them get what they want. A lie for a greater good.

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Re: How much of it was a Soviet invention?

Postby Hektor » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:18 pm)

Werd wrote:The Jews and the English had a common enemy. In the 40's, was the Germans' turn. But previously, it used to be the Russians who the Jews were complaining about to England.
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/20 ... -question/
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/20 ... trocities/
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/20 ... wish-role/
Jews apparently had a tendency to lie and exaggerate things in order to whip up other people to help them get what they want. A lie for a greater good.

.... And it seems that is what happened in world war two as well:
By December 1941 the first reports of gassings on Polish soil, at Chelmno, convinced the youth movements, the Bund, the Revisionists and the Communists that they had to assemble some military groups, but the bulk of the surviving leaders of the mainline WZO parties either did not believe that what had happened elsewhere would happen in Warsaw or else they were convinced that nothing could be done. Yitzhak Zuckerman, a founder of the Jewish Fighting Organisation (JFO) which united the WZO’s forces with the Bund and the Communists, and later a major historian of the Warsaw rising, has put it baldly: “The Jewish Fighting Organisation arose without the parties and against the wish of the parties.” [20] After the war some of the writings of Hersz Berlinksi, of the “left” Poale Zion, were posthumously published. He told of an October 1942 conference between his organisation and the youth groups....
... The Mordechai who had matured so rapidly and risen so quickly to the most responsible post as commander of the Fighters Organisation now greatly regretted that his fellows and he had wasted three war years on cultural and educational work. We had not understood that new side of Hitler that is emerging, Mordechai lamented. We should have trained the youth in the use of live and cold ammunition. We should have raised them in the spirit of revenge against the greatest enemy of the Jews, of all mankind, and of all times...

The debate within the resistance focused on the key question of where to fight. Generally speaking, it was the Communists who favoured getting as many of the youth as possible into the forests as partisans, whereas the young Zionists called for last stands in the ghettos. The Communists had always been the most ethnically integrated party in the country and, now that the Soviet Union had itself been attacked, they were wholly committed to the struggle against Hitler. The Soviets had parachuted Pincus Kartin, a Spanish Civil War veteran, into Poland to organise the Jewish underground. The Communists argued that the ghettos could not be defended and the fighters would be killed for nothing. In the woods they might not only survive, but be able to start attacking the Germans. The Zionist youth raised real questions about retreating to the forests. The Red Army was still a long way off and the Polish Communist Gwardia Ludowa (People’s Guard) was viewed with great suspicion by the Polish masses, because of their previous support for the Hitler-Stalin pact which had led directly to the destruction of the Polish state. As a result the Gwardia had very few weapons and the countryside was full of anti-Semitic partisans, often Naras, who had no hesitation about killing Jews. However, there was an additional sectarian element in much of the young Zionists’ thinking. Mordechai Tanenbaum-Tamaroff of Bialystok was the most vehement opponent of the partisan conception, yet the town was in an immense primeval forest.
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/d ... t/ch21.htm

Atrocity propaganda was seen as a useful tool to mobilize other Jews to join the partisans.

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Re: How much of it was a Soviet invention?

Postby rev82 » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:18 am)

Good afternoon everyone,

I think that what we have here can be split into time frames; at first the wild rumors about "gas chambers" that went viral within the camps population ( therefore and in fact if not all of "eyewitness testimonies" stop at the entrance of the "gas chambers" or see Abraham Bomba's haircut story ); the Soviets "liberate" Auschwitz and lays the ground for the "gas chambers" narrative; then the Buchenwald table with its preposterous props and Billy Wilder/Jewish led American Psychological Warfare unit staging the rest; the Nuremberg Trials and all the subsequent ones were filled with "certified copies" of the most unbelievable testimonies ( see Carlos Porter's Not Guilty At Nuremberg and Made In Russia: The Holocaust ).
The Soviets, and the Allies in general had to make the German look worst than their Hiroshimas, Gulags and the senseless firebombing of nothing but innocent civilians..but that's just the tip of the iceberg.

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Re: How much of it was a Soviet invention?

Postby rev82 » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:30 am)

I'd like to thank you for the vast amount of documentation and references and sources that you guys posts all the time on this forum, it really is a goldmine for the interested reader.

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Re: How much of it was a Soviet invention?

Postby Mortimer » 2 months 1 week ago (Sun May 06, 2018 7:22 am)

The pioneer of holocaust revisionism in France Paul Rassinier commented about exaggerations to do with the camps. As a former inmate of Buchenwald he was in a position to do so. He stated -
"Then one day I realized that a false picture of the German camps had been created and that the problem of the concentration camps was a universal one, not just one that could be disposed of by placing it on the doorstep of the national socialists. The deportees, many of whom were communists, had been largely responsible for leading international political thinking to such an erroneous conclusion. I suddenly felt that by remaining silent I was an accomplice to a dangerous influence."
https://codoh.com/library/document/3129/

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Re: How much of it was a Soviet invention?

Postby JohnDemianiuk » 1 month 1 week ago (Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:53 pm)

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