Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

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Deitrich
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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Deitrich » 3 weeks 2 days ago (Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:50 pm)

Pia Kahn wrote:You claim that these are "undisputed broken myths"? I see lots of disputes raging over these myths. If you had looked closely into the 9/11 myth and actually studied the forensic evidence, then you would probably think differently. Thus, what you consider to be outrageous may not be outrageous once you have done your research. I originally thought it would be outrageous to claim that the JFK-assassination was a conspiracy including the CIA. Now, I find it outrageous to believe that the CIA was not involved in the JFK assassination.

It seems you have a very hard time to define who is really a conspiracy theorist because the JFK assassination theories, golf of tonkin and WMD unbelievers were all regarded as insane conspiracy theorists, in particular the holocaust unbelievers are thought to be insane.

Since there is no clear distinction line, I don't think it makes sense not to talk to these people. It's a clear strategic mistake to exclude them. They are easy targets and increasing the number of unbelievers increases the momentum for your cause.


I think I just did not explain my case properly..

- I distinguished war/political/economic conspiracies from science and whack job ones (chem trails etc)
- I acknowledged that conspiracy was a "normal" part of war.
- The tactic is to group real war conspiracies in with the whack job to dismiss them in thee cases as well
- I merely declined to input on 9/11
- The distinction line in my view is "evidence?"
- KEY: those flat earth conspiracists and those who are say questioning some aspect of Syrian gassings today (investigating something with a pretext to be false) both WILL be present on the fact, history, war sites anyhow in large numbers. I do not think we should post there directly, hence we will be universally relegated as "conspiracists".

^If you still do not agree, we'll just agree to disagree.



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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Hektor » 3 weeks 2 days ago (Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:20 pm)

Deitrich wrote:
Pia Kahn wrote:You claim that these are "undisputed broken myths"? I see lots of disputes raging over these myths. If you had looked closely into the 9/11 myth and actually studied the forensic evidence, then you would probably think differently. Thus, what you consider to be outrageous may not be outrageous once you have done your research. I originally thought it would be outrageous to claim that the JFK-assassination was a conspiracy including the CIA. Now, I find it outrageous to believe that the CIA was not involved in the JFK assassination.

It seems you have a very hard time to define who is really a conspiracy theorist because the JFK assassination theories, golf of tonkin and WMD unbelievers were all regarded as insane conspiracy theorists, in particular the holocaust unbelievers are thought to be insane.

Since there is no clear distinction line, I don't think it makes sense not to talk to these people. It's a clear strategic mistake to exclude them. They are easy targets and increasing the number of unbelievers increases the momentum for your cause.


I think I just did not explain my case properly..

- I distinguished war/political/economic conspiracies from science and whack job ones (chem trails etc)
- I acknowledged that conspiracy was a "normal" part of war.
- The tactic is to group real war conspiracies in with the whack job to dismiss them in thee cases as well
- I merely declined to input on 9/11
- The distinction line in my view is "evidence?"
- KEY: those flat earth conspiracists and those who are say questioning some aspect of Syrian gassings today (investigating something with a pretext to be false) both WILL be present on the fact, history, war sites anyhow in large numbers. I do not think we should post there directly, hence we will be universally relegated as "conspiracists".

^If you still do not agree, we'll just agree to disagree.


The tactic is to group all dissenters together and then make generalizing statements about them (Isn't that what they say "Racists" and "Antisemites" were doing?). Simply lump in the "Holocaust Deniers" with the Flat Earthers, Ufologists and Reptilian Conspiracy Theorists.
Then attack them as whack jobs that deny science or something, like Michael Shermer and his fellow "Skeptics" used to do.

Meanwhile it's the orthodox Holocaust that's a conspiracy theory par excellence. The historians (the promoters usually don't) admit that there was NO OFFICIAL Program to exterminate the Jews, no written orders, no reporting about homicidal gassings and the physical evidence has been made vanish by the fiendish Nazis. The thing was perpetrated by some secretive group that worked on a mostly need to know basis or as some suggest as a common purpose (what contradicting evidence does do in that light, is however ignored by those peddling the theory). Now that's classical conspiracy stuff, like the Jesuits controlling all the governments in both Western and Communist countries. It always goes like this. Propose the Conspiracy Hypothesis and when someone asks for hard evidence, explain it with the conspirators working in secret and having made the evidence vanished. Now one can still give someone talking about secret organizations or the intelligence services the benefit of the doubt. But when the conspiracy includes the removal of millions of corpses, sanitizing a large bureaucratic organization (mind you during a time when it's actually collapsing) and disguising the murder weapons as shower rooms, morgues or other facilities you'd expect in a large detention facility, the all I can say is that this conspiracy theory is very rich even measured up to reptilians, masonic, Jesuit and alien abduction conspiracy stories.
If you point that out, then it's back to square one with the Belsen photos, the diary of Anne Frank, Hitler speeches and where did they go, if they weren't gassed question and answer attempts.

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 3 weeks 2 days ago (Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:47 pm)

The tactic is to group all dissenters together and then make generalizing statements about them (Isn't that what they say "Racists" and "Antisemites" were doing?). Simply lump in the "Holocaust Deniers" with the Flat Earthers, Ufologists and Reptilian Conspiracy Theorists.
Then attack them as whack jobs that deny science or something, like Michael Shermer and his fellow "Skeptics" used to do.

Meanwhile it's the orthodox Holocaust that's a conspiracy theory par excellence. The historians (the promoters usually don't) admit that there was NO OFFICIAL Program to exterminate the Jews, no written orders, no reporting about homicidal gassings and the physical evidence has been made vanish by the fiendish Nazis. The thing was perpetrated by some secretive group that worked on a mostly need to know basis or as some suggest as a common purpose (what contradicting evidence does do in that light, is however ignored by those peddling the theory). Now that's classical conspiracy stuff, like the Jesuits controlling all the governments in both Western and Communist countries. It always goes like this. Propose the Conspiracy Hypothesis and when someone asks for hard evidence, explain it with the conspirators working in secret and having made the evidence vanished. Now one can still give someone talking about secret organizations or the intelligence services the benefit of the doubt. But when the conspiracy includes the removal of millions of corpses, sanitizing a large bureaucratic organization (mind you during a time when it's actually collapsing) and disguising the murder weapons as shower rooms, morgues or other facilities you'd expect in a large detention facility, the all I can say is that this conspiracy theory is very rich even measured up to reptilians, masonic, Jesuit and alien abduction conspiracy stories.
If you point that out, then it's back to square one with the Belsen photos, the diary of Anne Frank, Hitler speeches and where did they go, if they weren't gassed question and answer attempts.
You both make good points. On the one hand, associating with revisionists who subscribe to the flat earth, reptilian, etc would make our cause look like a joke. On the other hand, we need all the support we can get. It seems that even among revisionists that there is disagreement on, dare I say, rational conspiracy theories, such as 9/11 or JFK. I have questions on the Syrian gassing myself. My opinion is that we would focus on the sinking the holocaust into the myths of history. I think when it comes down to it, we all probably believe something weird, but that must not hinder the revision of the holocaust.
If your beliefs cannot stand up to your own sincere scrutiny and skeptical evaluation, they are not worth having.

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 weeks 2 days ago (Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:20 am)

"I think when it comes down to it, we all probably believe something weird, but that must not hinder the revision of the holocaust." true!

We should talk to anybody willing to listen.

"The tactic is to group all dissenters together and then make generalizing statements about them (Isn't that what they say "Racists" and "Antisemites" were doing?). Simply lump in the "Holocaust Deniers" with the Flat Earthers, Ufologists and Reptilian Conspiracy Theorists. "

True and you cannot prevent them from employing this tactic by not talking to "conspiracy theorists. Thus, there is no benefit in not talking to them.

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Deitrich » 3 weeks 2 days ago (Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:40 am)

ADDENDUM:

Aside from smalltalk now, I simply offer the following targets for "strategic bombing purposes" I have identified..

Specific targets
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum - liar run, 431,000
https://www.facebook.com/holocaustmuseum/
Auschwitz Museum - run by deliberate liars- 250,000 followers
https://www.facebook.com/auschwitzmemorial/
Yad Vashem - liar run, 58,000
https://www.facebook.com/yadvashem/
Grandchildren of Holocaust Survivors - unknown ideal of admin (likely liar), 43,000
https://www.facebook.com/3GsWorldwide/
Holocaust Social Archive - the largest site run by a "believer", 42,000
https://www.facebook.com/HSA.Archive/

^HSA is run by a young woman in her 30's- "Meirav Kaye (Meirav Kaminski)"- her Uncle was allegedly slammed by Graf and Mattogno in one of their works but she has not read the book and would not tell me where. I had an interpersonal relationship with her until recently. Nice girl, traumatised by the lie genuinely, reacts strongly to denial but was able to be kept on friendly basis. Closest ever come to liberation of someone at the helm of a 42,000 strong site. Be nice to her :)

General targets (less specific, but far greater coverage, equally important)

History - general, non-specific, may have jewish dept for holocaust matters - 43.5 million
https://www.facebook.com/HISTORYAUNZ/?b ... 8429246183
Unbelievable Facts - undercover holocaust site posing as a "fact" site, the largest in fact, liar (pro-Jewish) run- 7.8 million
https://www.facebook.com/UNBfacts/
War History Online - undetermined persuasion (but strongly anti-denial) - 1.7 million
https://www.facebook.com/wrhstol/
History Uncovered - is a liar based holocaust promotion platform under the front of "history" site - 2.5 million
https://www.facebook.com/HistoryUncovered/

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Hektor » 3 weeks 1 day ago (Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:18 pm)

Pia Kahn wrote:"I think when it comes down to it, we all probably believe something weird, but that must not hinder the revision of the holocaust." true!

We should talk to anybody willing to listen.

"The tactic is to group all dissenters together and then make generalizing statements about them (Isn't that what they say "Racists" and "Antisemites" were doing?). Simply lump in the "Holocaust Deniers" with the Flat Earthers, Ufologists and Reptilian Conspiracy Theorists. "

True and you cannot prevent them from employing this tactic by not talking to "conspiracy theorists. Thus, there is no benefit in not talking to them.


I don't suggest "not talking" to "conspiracy theorists", but don't think they should be close to the top of the priority list. In fact I suggest talking to everybody that is a potential multiplier, still there needs to be some sort of sequence. My priority would be people that are already somewhat knowledgeable, articulate and logical.

Response to the "you are like a conspiracy theorist"? In short:"The Holocaust is a conspiracy theory". Those arguing with fallacies aren't really worthwhile in my mind, It's those that are more rational than average one needs to identify. Decades ago those would be people with some academic background. Today you have to be a bit more selective with the "degreed" people and there are many proficient people that haven't attended university. The autodidact seems to me more suitable anyway, they're often more able to think for themselves compared with those that have an academic career past them. And he isn't dependent on academia for income neither, so he can afford to be more outspoken.

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 weeks 1 day ago (Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:42 am)

Hektor wrote:...I don't suggest "not talking" to "conspiracy theorists", but don't think they should be close to the top of the priority list. In fact I suggest talking to everybody that is a potential multiplier, still there needs to be some sort of sequence. My priority would be people that are already somewhat knowledgeable, articulate and logical.

Response to the "you are like a conspiracy theorist"? In short:"The Holocaust is a conspiracy theory". Those arguing with fallacies aren't really worthwhile in my mind, It's those that are more rational than average one needs to identify. Decades ago those would be people with some academic background. Today you have to be a bit more selective with the "degreed" people and there are many proficient people that haven't attended university. The autodidact seems to me more suitable anyway, they're often more able to think for themselves compared with those that have an academic career past them. And he isn't dependent on academia for income neither, so he can afford to be more outspoken.


I don't think it is about how smart or intelligent people are. It is whether they have an open mind. It is about whether they are willing to consider looking at the evidence at all. You have very smart people reacting to revisionist arguments emotionally. You cannot reach these people with arguments. You have to deprogram them from their emotional trauma. If I sense that someone is deeply traumatized by the holocaust, then I know that a rational discussion is impossible. We have a traumatized intellectual elite of leftists.

If you find a person who has shown that he has the courage to voice a minority opinion, someone who can think out of the box, then that's the person you can probably talk to rationally about the holocaust. If someone doesn't agree with the governments version of the JFK assassination, he may be willing to reconsider the governments version of the second world war and the holocaust in particular. It is the irony of history that President Bush junior's lie about weapons of mass destruction has done revisionism a favor.

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 weeks 1 day ago (Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:23 am)

The 9/11 truth movement has really demonstrated to us how a myth can be busted. Why don't we have a petition like the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth?

https://www.ae911truth.org/

Richard Gage and his engineers show us how it can be done.

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 weeks 1 day ago (Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:23 am)

T

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Hektor » 3 weeks 1 day ago (Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:43 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:
Hektor wrote:...I don't suggest "not talking" to "conspiracy theorists", but don't think they should be close to the top of the priority list. In fact I suggest talking to everybody that is a potential multiplier, still there needs to be some sort of sequence. My priority would be people that are already somewhat knowledgeable, articulate and logical.

Response to the "you are like a conspiracy theorist"? In short:"The Holocaust is a conspiracy theory". Those arguing with fallacies aren't really worthwhile in my mind, It's those that are more rational than average one needs to identify. Decades ago those would be people with some academic background. Today you have to be a bit more selective with the "degreed" people and there are many proficient people that haven't attended university. The autodidact seems to me more suitable anyway, they're often more able to think for themselves compared with those that have an academic career past them. And he isn't dependent on academia for income neither, so he can afford to be more outspoken.


I don't think it is about how smart or intelligent people are. It is whether they have an open mind. It is about whether they are willing to consider looking at the evidence at all. You have very smart people reacting to revisionist arguments emotionally. You cannot reach these people with arguments. You have to deprogram them from their emotional trauma. If I sense that someone is deeply traumatized by the holocaust, then I know that a rational discussion is impossible. We have a traumatized intellectual elite of leftists.
....


I didn't mean to say that less intelligent people resist more to Revisionist arguments. What I meant to say is that more intelligent people will be more useful in spreading ideas via word of mouth. My point is that the trend of information flow is from top to bottom in society. The proletariat has little influence in shaping public opinion. I don't mean that as a snobbish remark, but as a sober assessment of the social facts.

The problem with intellectuals and academics is that, while they know how to work with information, theories etc. They often aren't really skilled in working with their own emotions. That way they are actually easier manipulated, when emotion is used. The lower strata of society may actually be more aware, when being lied to, since they have to develop skills, shielding them from tricksters. They may struggle to read a contract and spot the risks that way, so they have to spot, whether another person is a bullshitter.

You are right on the "intellectual elites" at least about a lot of them. I take it that their average quality went down the drain decades ago. One reason being that it has been made quite easy to get an university degree in Western countries. In earlier times academics and intellectuals had to really struggle to achieve a degree. The standards were higher and it wasn't "for free" to study. You either had to be fairly rich already or find sponsors for your studies. People that studied often came from wealthier homes that were stable and cultured already. That also meant they won't eat up all the bullshit a professor would tell them. The classical education also included liberal arts education, that weren't "liberal" in the present day sense of the word. The Trivium and Quadrivium gave learners the tools in grammar, logic, mathematics they needed to analyse and work with more difficult subjects. Today's humanities students, including historians, are quite weak on mathematics and natural sciences, but strong on grammar and rhetoric (which includes fallacious reasoning and persuasive devices). The social skills also play a more important role, to advance you getting along with your professor and later colleagues is fairly important.

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Deitrich » 3 weeks 16 hours ago (Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:51 pm)

Pia Kahn wrote:The 9/11 truth movement has really demonstrated to us how a myth can be busted. Why don't we have a petition like the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth?

https://www.ae911truth.org/

Richard Gage and his engineers show us how it can be done.

s
Whilst it is true that I think there was a large amount of shoddiness surrounding 9/11- which I wont elaborate on, I don't see anything particularly troublesome from the point of view of say "the towers coming down by plane strikes" etc. Not claiming I am knowledgable about this matter, only that as fantastic as the official version is with regards to the planes hitting in the first place, most aspects of the "truth movement" are imo even more absurd.

^My thoughts here are non-consequential though..

The main point I want to make is that the 9/11 truth movements etc are imo examples of how terrible a job was done, self relegating themselves into the depths of conspiracy theory where they will likely remain, even if some more realistic aspects were correct. The slightest mention of it to ordinary people in a Western country has you relegated to the realm of "quack".
-------------

In terms of "conspiracy theory" altogether- I still feel that even the slightest connection to conspiracy theorists will have us dismissed and nobody is going to listen to them at all, they themselves will not multiply because for them the holocaust would just be another "example" amongst the whole suite of conspiracy's in their heads. They are also incapable of processing "actual" "study".

Conspiracy theories require a few quick shills implanted into the heads of someone with all rational/analytical processes suspended.
Holocaust revisionism requires months and years of intensive study of scientific/historiographic knowledge with rational/analytical systems operating at full.

Further even "if" you gave merit to them- as a revisionist it's probably important to bury such associations for the above reasons.

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Deitrich » 3 weeks 16 hours ago (Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:56 pm)

Deitrich wrote:
Pia Kahn wrote:The 9/11 truth movement has really demonstrated to us how a myth can be busted. Why don't we have a petition like the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth?

https://www.ae911truth.org/

Richard Gage and his engineers show us how it can be done.

s
Whilst it is true that I think there was a large amount of shoddiness surrounding 9/11- which I wont elaborate on, I don't see anything particularly troublesome from the point of view of say "the towers coming down by plane strikes" etc. Not claiming I am knowledgable about this matter, only that as fantastic as the official version is with regards to the planes hitting in the first place, most aspects of the "truth movement" are imo even more absurd.

^My thoughts here are non-consequential though..

The main point I want to make is that the 9/11 truth movements etc are imo examples of how terrible a job was done, self relegating themselves into the depths of conspiracy theory where they will likely remain, even if some more realistic aspects were correct. The slightest mention of it to ordinary people in a Western country has you relegated to the realm of "quack".
-------------

In terms of "conspiracy theory" altogether- I still feel that even the slightest connection to conspiracy theorists will have us dismissed and nobody is going to listen to them at all, they themselves will not multiply because for them the holocaust would just be another "example" amongst the whole suite of conspiracy's in their heads. They are also incapable of processing "actual" "study".

They don't/can't read real science, same as how believers can't/wont read revisionist books, rather than read both and compare to see how absurd their literature is. Only the anti-establishment factor of revisionism would be important for them.

They would be dismissed given their association with other claims such as the world is flat or contrails are poison gas <chuckle> and cause damage to revisionism itself. But if people generally considered "balanced" begin to speak out- that's different.

Conspiracy theories require a few quick shills implanted into the heads of someone with all rational/analytical processes suspended.
Holocaust revisionism requires months and years of intensive study of scientific/historiographic knowledge with rational/analytical systems operating at full.

Further even "if" you gave merit to them- as a revisionist it's probably important to bury such associations for the above reasons.

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Re: Blueprint for destruction of the Holocaust Myth

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 weeks 15 hours ago (Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:30 pm)

"I don't see anything particularly troublesome from the point of view of say "the towers coming down by plane strikes" etc. Not claiming I am knowledgable about this matter..."

Well, well, ...

You don't seem to know that one tower, WTC-7, completely collapsed into its foot print symmetrically and in free fall for 2.5 seconds, which was not hit by any plane. Thus, the theory "the towers coming down by plane strike" is wrong.

The official theory states that this building collapsed due to office fires, which led to the failure of a single steel column, which resulted in a chain reaction,... it is complete bullshit, because an asymmetrical damage cannot lead to a symmetrical collapse at free fall.

The only working explanation for this event is a controlled demolition. This is supported by numerous eye witness accounts, recordings of explosions, seismic evidence, residue of explosives, symmetrical free fall, sudden onset,.....

This is not the place to discuss all the physical evidence refuting the official theory. This has been masterfully done by the architects and engineers for 9-11-truth. Just care to look at the evidence:

https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/fre ... celeration

The fact of the matter is that the 9-11 truth movement is far more successful in changing minds than the holocaust unbelievers. They are on the verge of becoming main stream. Thus, we should study their example.

"The slightest mention of it to ordinary people in a Western country has you relegated to the realm of "quack"."

Not true. Lot's of ordinary people know that the official 9-11 story is bullshit. They will freely admit it as soon as they sense that you are yourself critical.


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