Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

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Wolfgang
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Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Wolfgang » 1 week 5 days ago (Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:05 am)

In a discussion I came across these documents:

https://www.ns-archiv.de/einsatzgruppen ... faksimile/

Which according to my debating opponent is translated as:

I
I D 3 a (9) NI. 214/42 G.RS. Berlin, 5 June 1942

Only copy.Top Secret!

I. Note:

Conc.: Technical adjustments to special vans at present in service and to those that are in production.

Since December 1941, ninety-seven thousand have been processed for example, using three vans, without any defects showing up in the vehicles. The explosion that we know took place at Kulmhof is to be considered an isolated case. The cause can be attributed to improper operation. In order to avoid such incidents, special instructions have been addressed to the services concerned. Safety has been increased considerably as a result of these instructions. Previous experience has shown that the following adjustments would be useful:

1.) In order to facilitate the rapid distribution of CO, as well as to avoid a buildup of pressure, two slots, ten by one centimeters, will be bored at the top of the rear wall. The excess pressure would be controlled by an easily adjustable hinged metal valve on the outside of the vents.

2.) The normal capacity of the vans is nine to ten per square meter. The capacity of the larger special Saurer vans is not so great. The problem is not one of overloading but of off-road maneuverability on all terrains, which is severely diminished in this van. It would appear that a reduction in the cargo area is necessary. This can be achieved by shortening the compartment by about one meter. The problem cannot be solved by merely reducing the number of subjects treated, as has been done so far. For in this case a longer running time is required, as the empty space also needs to be filled with CO. On the contrary, were the cargo area smaller, but fully occupied, the operation would take considerably less time, because there would be no empty space.

3.) The pipe that connects the exhaust to the van tends to rust, because it is eaten away from the inside by liquids that flow into it. To avoid this the nozzle should be so arranged as to point downward. The liquids will thus be prevented from flowing into [the pipe].

4.) To facilitate the cleaning of the vehicle, an opening will be made in the floor to allow for drainage. It will be closed by a watertight cover about twenty to thirty centimeters in diameter, fitted with an elbow siphon that will allow for the drainage of thin liquids. The upper part of the elbow pipe will be fitted with a sieve to avoid obstruction. Thicker dirt can be removed through the large drainage hole when the vehicle is cleaned. The floor of the vehicle can be tipped slightly. In this way all the liquids can be made to flow toward the center and be prevented from entering the pipes.

5.) The observation windows that have been installed up to now could be eliminated, as they are hardly ever used. Considerable time will be saved in the production of the new vans by avoiding the difficult fitting of the window and its airtight lock.

6.) Greater protection is needed for the lighting system. The grille should cover the lamps high enough up to make it impossible to break the bulb. It seems that these lamps are hardly ever turned on, so the users have suggested that they could be done away with. Experience shows, however, that when the back door is closed and it gets dark inside, the load pushes hard against the door. The reason for this is that when it becomes dark inside the load rushes toward what little light remains. This hampers the locking of the door. It has also been noticed that the noise provoked by the locking of the door is linked to the fear aroused by the darkness. It is therefore expedient to keep the lights on before the operation and during the first few minutes of its duration. Lighting is also useful for night work and for the cleaning of the interior of the van.

7.) To facilitate the rapid unloading of the vehicles, a removable grid is to be placed on the floor. It will slide on rollers on a U-shaped rail. It will be removed and put in position by means of a small winch placed under the vehicle. The firm charged with the alterations has stated that it is not able to continue for the moment, due to a lack of staff and materials. Another firm will have to be found.The technical changes planned for the vehicles already in operation will be carried out when and as major repairs to these vehicles prove necessary. The alterations in the ten Saurer vehicles already ordered will be carried out as far as possible. The manufacturer made it clear in a meeting that structural alterations, with the exception of minor ones, cannot be carried out for the moment. An attempt must therefore be made to find another firm that can carry out, on at least one of these ten vehicles, the alterations and adjustments that experience has proved to be necessary. I suggest that the firm in Hohenmauth be charged with the execution.Due to present circumstances, we shall have to expect a later date of completion for this vehicle. It will then not only be kept available as a model but also be used as a reserve vehicle. Once it has been tested, the other vans will be withdrawn from service and will undergo the same alterations.

II. To Gruppenleiter II D SS-Obersturmbannführer Rauff for examination and decision.

by order of Just


Do you kow anything about the validity of these documents?

Why would Germans have gas vans? Why would they use carbon oxide? And why was the exhaust connected to the inside of the van?

I don't think CO could be used for fumigation. Or could it?



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Hannover
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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Hannover » 1 week 5 days ago (Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:54 am)

Welcome.

The alleged 'gas vans' are truly laughable, no, idiotic.

Imagine driving trucks around and wasting precious war time fuel and then trying to figure out what to do with the bodies.

Yet again, just like the alleged 11,000,000 'holocaust' total, there are no alleged enormous mass graves & necessary human remains to be seen.
Indeed, the alleged vans are said to have been diesel, meaning an impossible mass murder weapon. Like I said, idiotic.

And why would this be necessary if they were factual:
Gas Van Film and Photo Fraud, German News Magazine and Simon Wiesenthal Center's Museum Caught Faking Photo and Film Captions
http://codoh.com/library/document/3276

much more:
NEWS! magazine & Wiesenthal Ctr. caught faking 'gas vans'!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8534
and:
Excellent debunking of the comical 'gas vans' with many links and references at:
'Chelmno again'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75
see:
The Gas Vans, A Critical Study
https://codoh.com/library/document/1206/?lang=en
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As for the forged letter you produced, well, it's old news and has been completely debunked.
see:
Gas Vans – forgeries galore!
https://codoh.com/library/document/342/?lang=en
further demolition:
https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=gas+vans+

Cheers, Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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borjastick
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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby borjastick » 1 week 5 days ago (Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:15 am)

The normal capacity of the vans is nine to ten per square meter.


Here we go again. Nine to ten people per square metre!!!!! Really? Crazy.

This figure comes up in other areas of the holocaust's killing machines. I was literally just reading about Belzec, another very odd cog in the claimed mass murder of every jew the Germans could get their hands on. They had gas chambers there, according to the legend that could kill people packed ten per square metre in them. Just try getting 10 people to stand in one square metre on your lounge carpet...

By the way they are once again claiming with Belzec and these gas vans that people could be gassed efficiently with diesel fumes. Nonsense. It's been well proven that diesel fumes do not kill.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Dresden » 1 week 5 days ago (Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:26 pm)

borjastick said:

"By the way they are once again claiming with Belzec and these gas vans that people could be gassed efficiently with diesel fumes. Nonsense. It's been well proven that diesel fumes do not kill"

That's right; Audi even proved it:
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Hektor
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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Hektor » 1 week 5 days ago (Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:14 pm)

Wolfgang wrote:In a discussion I came across these documents:
....

Do you kow anything about the validity of these documents?

Why would Germans have gas vans? Why would they use carbon oxide? And why was the exhaust connected to the inside of the van?

I don't think CO could be used for fumigation. Or could it?


Let's have a look who the person going by the name of Walter Rauff was:

n the late 1940s, Walther (Walter) Rauff, an SS officer who was responsible for the murder of at least 100,000 people and was wanted by the Allies as a war criminal, was employed by the Israeli secret service. Instead of bringing him to justice it paid him for his services and helped him escape to South America. Documents of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that have been released over the past several years show that the Americans were aware that Rauff's case was not exceptional.

A CIA memorandum dated March 24, 1950 describes the relations between the Israel agent Edmond (Ted) Cross, whose name is deleted on this document, and a Nazi named Janos Walberg: "Subject's engagement be [sic] the Israeli Intelligence Service would fit into the picture as revealed by talks with X with [Edmond (Ted) Cross a.k.a. Magen or Crowder] consisting in the utilization of former Nazi elements for observation and penetration in the Arab countries. The attempt to send the well-known former SS Colonel Walter Rauff to Egypt having failed, the Israeli Service with all probability (however this has not yet been confirmed) had engaged Subject [Walberg], whose sentiments and past would arouse no suspicions in Egypt that he is a Jewish agent."

https://www.haaretz.com/1.4813593


Ironically Rauff, whom one would assume given the narrative would have been highly accused, was also a witness for Holocaust related trials, by way of an affidavit that is:
https://www.ns-archiv.de/einsatzgruppen ... ntiago.php
Last edited by Hektor on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Hannover » 1 week 5 days ago (Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:34 pm)

Hektor posted:
Ironically Rauff, whom one would assume given the narrative would have been highly accused, was also a witness for Holocaust related trials, by way of an affidavit that is:
https://www.ns-archiv.de/einsatzgruppen ... ntiago.php

see page 133 of http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/26-tgv.pdf for a complete demolition of that affidavit.
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Seriously? Laughable Zionist controlled Wikipedia?
see: Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
see: How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet
http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-a ... =wikipedia
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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JLAD Prove Me Wrong
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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 week 5 days ago (Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:08 pm)

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van#Nazi_Germany
In August 1941, SS chief Heinrich Himmler attended a demonstration of a mass-shooting of Jews in Minsk arranged by Arthur Nebe, after which he vomited. Regaining his composure, Himmler decided that alternative methods of killing should be found.[12] He turned to Nebe to explore more "convenient" ways of killing that were less stressful for the killers. Nebe decided to try experimenting by murdering Soviet mental patients, first with explosives near Minsk, and then with automobile exhaust at Mogilev.[13] Nebe's experiments led to the utilization of the gas van.[14] This vehicle had already been used in 1940 for the gassing of East Prussian and Pomeranian mental patients in the Soldau concentration camp.[15] Another source states that the vans were first tested on Soviet prisoners in Sachsenhausen.[16]

One application of the Nazis' gas vans became known in 1943 after the trial of members of crimes against humanity committed in the territory of the Krasnodar Krai of the USSR, where about 7,000 civilians were killed by gas poisoning.[citation needed] It was a vehicle with an airtight compartment for victims, into which exhaust gas was piped while the engine was running. As a result, the victims were gassed with carbon monoxide, resulting in death by the combined effects of carbon monoxide poisoning and suffocation. The suffocations usually occurred as the gas van was carrying the victims to a freshly dug pit or ravine for mass burial.

Gas vans were used, particularly at Chełmno extermination camp, until gas chambers were developed as a more efficient method for killing large numbers of people. There were two types of gas vans in operation, used by the Einsatzgruppen in the East. The Opel-Blitz, weighing 3.5 tons, and the larger Saurerwagen, weighing 7 tonnes.[17] In Belgrade, the gas van was known as "Dušegupka" and in the occupied parts of the USSR similarly as "душегубка" (dushegubka, literally (feminine) soul killer/exterminator).

The use of gas vans had two disadvantages:

It was slow — some victims took twenty minutes to die.
It was not quiet — the drivers could hear the victims' screams, which they found distracting and disturbing.
By June 1942 the main producer of gas vans, Gaubschat Fahrzeugwerke GmbH, had delivered 20 gas vans in two models (for 30–50 and 70–100 individuals) to Einsatzgruppen, out of 30 ordered.[citation needed] Not one gas van was extant at the end of the war. The existence of gas vans first came to light in 1943 during the trial of Nazi collaborators involved in the gassing of 6,700 civilians in Krasnodar.[citation needed] The total number of gas van gassings is unknown.[citation needed]

The gas vans are extensively discussed in some of the interviews in Claude Lanzmann's film Shoah.
In light of the fact that diesel fumes can't be used to kill people, it appears that this Wikipedia article needs to be updated. Let Wikipedia know the truth about "homicidal gas vans"!
If your beliefs cannot stand up to your own sincere scrutiny and skeptical evaluation, they are not worth having.

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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Werd » 1 week 5 days ago (Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:16 pm)

borjastick wrote:By the way they are once again claiming with Belzec and these gas vans that people could be gassed efficiently with diesel fumes. Nonsense. It's been well proven that diesel fumes do not kill.

The diesel issue is irrelevant. People who were allegedly in a position to see the weapon NEVER said diesel.
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=38258#p38258
Doesn't mean the holocaust still isn't a big lie.

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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Hannover » 1 week 4 days ago (Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:40 pm)

Werd wrote:
borjastick wrote:By the way they are once again claiming with Belzec and these gas vans that people could be gassed efficiently with diesel fumes. Nonsense. It's been well proven that diesel fumes do not kill.

The diesel issue is irrelevant. People who were allegedly in a position to see the weapon NEVER said diesel.
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=38258#p38258
Doesn't mean the holocaust still isn't a big lie.

Yet the fact is that the vehicle brand / model claimed was a Sauer diesel engine truck.

see pages 25 - 31, http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/26-tgv.pdf
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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Werd » 1 week 4 days ago (Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:37 am)

It was also discovered that not all Sauer trucks were diesel.
Hans wrote:they produced at least 2800 Saurer trucks with gasoline engines during the war in France (Saurer. Vom Ostschweizer Kleinbetrieb zum internationalen Technologiekonzern, chapter Zwischen den Fronten).

[...]

You know, this means that many leading Holocaust deniers provided you with an entirely unfounded and false assertion:

Carlo Mattogno ("all Saurer trucks had diesel engines), Santiago Alvarez ("the Swiss-Austrian truck manufacturer Saurer, who equipped their trucks only with Diesel engines), Ingrid Weckert ("Saurer vehicles always had Diesel engines"), Jürgen Graf ("all Saurer vehicles were driven by Diesel"), Thomas Dalton ("...Saurers, which only run on diesel...these definitely could not have been gasoline"), Scott Smith ("Saurers are always diesels").

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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Hannover » 1 week 4 days ago (Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:35 am)

Werd wrote:It was also discovered that not all Sauer trucks were diesel.
Hans wrote:they produced at least 2800 Saurer trucks with gasoline engines during the war in France (Saurer. Vom Ostschweizer Kleinbetrieb zum internationalen Technologiekonzern, chapter Zwischen den Fronten).

[...]

You know, this means that many leading Holocaust deniers provided you with an entirely unfounded and false assertion:

Carlo Mattogno ("all Saurer trucks had diesel engines), Santiago Alvarez ("the Swiss-Austrian truck manufacturer Saurer, who equipped their trucks only with Diesel engines), Ingrid Weckert ("Saurer vehicles always had Diesel engines"), Jürgen Graf ("all Saurer vehicles were driven by Diesel"), Thomas Dalton ("...Saurers, which only run on diesel...these definitely could not have been gasoline"), Scott Smith ("Saurers are always diesels").

Werd, you cited via 'Hans': "(Saurer. Vom Ostschweizer Kleinbetrieb zum internationalen Technologiekonzern, chapter Zwischen den Fronten)." as your source.
I can find nothing on it. I see no verifiable quotes from that alleged source, no scanned page, nothing. Please back up what you claim.

And BTW, communist "witnesses" described specific Sauer models which were verifiably diesel.

And at the Soviet Show Trials, the Soviets themselves said they were diesel.

I assume as well that this 'Hans' is the same one who has been demolished on everything he posted at this forum. LOL The same guy who is part of the laughably discredited 'Holocaust Controversies'.

must reading:
The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”
An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers

By Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas Kues
https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en

Cheers, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Rogal Dorn » 1 week 4 days ago (Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:35 am)

What does codoh think about the claim that the gas van was invented by a Soviet man going by the name of Isiah Berg some time in the 1930s?

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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Hektor » 1 week 4 days ago (Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:19 am)

Rogal Dorn wrote:What does codoh think about the claim that the gas van was invented by a Soviet man going by the name of Isiah Berg some time in the 1930s?

Well, CODOH doesn't think. Users, administrators, and others do.
I haven't looked into the issue, so I can't really comment. Also no idea who Isiah Berg was and what he invented or not.

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Re: Gas Wagons - fiction or fact?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 week 4 days ago (Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:16 pm)

"what does CODOH think about..." is short for "What do the people at CODOH think about..." I don't think there's anything incorrect or wrong with how Rogal Dorn phrased the question.

Rogal Dorn: Did you download the pdf of that holocaust handbook and do a keyword search on "Isiah Berg"?


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