Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

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Pia Kahn
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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby Pia Kahn » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:08 am)

O.K. Guys and girls:

I have attached my first draft of a flyer for distribution at German Universities. What do you think?
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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby borjastick » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:26 am)

Any move as discussed here, to de-criminalise holocaust debate in countries where it is currently illegal, will rapidly be out-maneuvered by those european style socialists who will claim that it, the holocaust, is a proven fact established in law and accepted by most countries in the world. Also that holocaust debate threatens jews and israel and thus as such holocaust debate is actually hate speech and thus illegal.

As seen in many western countries of late too many people get 'offended' by something and then get the public against it and law makers to ban it. If they can't get you on a public violation they turn to hate speech laws to shut you down.

The problem for holocaust denial and revisionism is that a) the facts and logic are too strong for them, and will convince many people very quickly that the holocaust is a lie and b) as a result anti-semitism will increase exponentially as a consequence.

I say relax with the leafleting and doorstepping ops and keep going with what we do already. Why? because it's working.
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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:28 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:O.K. Guys and girls:

I have attached my first draft of a flyer for distribution at German Universities. What do you think?

Good work; now my opinion is as follows;

1. Place small text underneath photos with a brief explanation

2. Give more examples of revisionists - examples such as Ursula Haverbeck, Monika Schaefer, Alfred Schaefer, David Irving, etc. Much detail on these people shouldn't be necessary, as long as it is shown that these people were jailed for their controversial statements which they have made.

3. You mentioned the fumigation of a church - a photo with a description would be useful

These are my opinions, and maybe others have different opinions than mine, but those are my thoughts. Good work on this.
If your beliefs cannot stand up to your own sincere scrutiny and skeptical evaluation, they are not worth having.

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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby Hektor » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:52 am)

JLAD Prove Me Wrong wrote:....
I understand your argument. It is a fact that people get more stubborn as they age. The alternative would be to go to campuses and "encourage universities to explain why holocaust denial is wrong without insulting the denier or using bad research." Even though we are right, this will subtly encourage the hoaxers to engage our points and actually use logic, thus winning converts to our side. According to https://www.timeshighereducation.com/st ... vey-answer the top 2018 German universities are
1. LMU Munich
2. Technical University of Munich
3. Heidelberg University
4. Humboldt University of Berlin
5. RWTH Aachen University
6. University of Freiburg
7. Free University of Berlin
8. Technical University of Berlin
9. University of Tübingen
10. University of Bonn

If we get them to engage "the arguments of holocasut deniers" we have already won, and this will help us greatly. While I have no regard for "holocaust denial laws", this might be the more effective way to do it. That said, it would be funny to see the reaction of German police to find hundreds of revisionist literature all over street corners and people's doorsteps. :lol:

OK, 2, 5, 8 are technical universities. They may have a history department, but it's of minor relevance. That has implications either way. One is that they won't be ranked based on this. On the other hand, this may also mean that they're more open to debate. Since their position pressure isn't that strong.

I expect resistance of some sort anyway. One got the essential structure "You are Neonazis, and you deny the Holocaust, because you want to reintroduce Hitler and Nazidom". They'll then screen you to find anything they can take offense of. However they'll have difficulties if those introducing the new information are normal people that articulate themselves in an intelligent, polite way. That works best with the freedom of speech angle. The validity of the Holocaust should be posed even more carefully, and I think "asking for arguments" to "refute Holocaust Denial" is the right approach. But don't expect academics to be highly scientific, meaning rational and empirical, on this. They pull the Nazi card very quickly and another unscientific ploy is to demand credentials and claim that you are not qualified, because you don't have a PhD in history. That takes about a decade or 10% of a persons life-time. Even if you had, they'd simply shift the goal posts further. This is however a tacit admission that they don't have good arguments to sustain their position. The best they can come up with is the Belsen-photos and the likes, or some testimony that suits them. If they're clever they pull out some unknown document, which can not be refuted out of hand. The debate consists of tit bits anyway and creating impressions, which is working people's mind with innuendo. What they don't do is looking at the bigger picture and context, which would demonstrate that the camps claimed weren't extermination centers (But had a lot of healthcare facilities), but that the NS-solution of the Jewish question was resettlement of Jews. To avoid people seeing that, the waters need to be muddied and that's the purpose of movies in that genre.

But look beyond the bulk. 5% of academics might actually seriously look at the issue and draw the conclusion that what people are made to believe (Holocaust) isn't exactly true. However that means anything you say needs to be properly sourced, so that they can follow up.

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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby Pia Kahn » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:15 am)

JLAD Prove Me Wrong wrote:
Pia Kahn wrote:O.K. Guys and girls:

I have attached my first draft of a flyer for distribution at German Universities. What do you think?

Good work; now my opinion is as follows;

1. Place small text underneath photos with a brief explanation

2. Give more examples of revisionists - examples such as Ursula Haverbeck, Monika Schaefer, Alfred Schaefer, David Irving, etc. Much detail on these people shouldn't be necessary, as long as it is shown that these people were jailed for their controversial statements which they have made.

3. You mentioned the fumigation of a church - a photo with a description would be useful

These are my opinions, and maybe others have different opinions than mine, but those are my thoughts. Good work on this.


I've added the picture of the Church and explanations for the photos.

I do not want to add other people because this flyer is directed to University Students. They can probably identify best with a scientist who was put into jail for publishing a scientific study. I am still considering to place the air photo of the roof of crema 2 into the flier.

Haverbeck is portayed as a Nazi in Germany and she does appear to be very far on the right. Therefore, the average brainwashed German cannot feel any sympathy for her. A flyer with a prominent picture of her would have little or no impact.

Monika Schaefer's video: "sorry mom, I was wrong about the holocaust" is probably a very good topic for another flyer. But, this flyer should be directed to older people who can relate to this. People who actually blamed their parents for the holocaust.
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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:45 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:
JLAD Prove Me Wrong wrote:
Pia Kahn wrote:O.K. Guys and girls:

I have attached my first draft of a flyer for distribution at German Universities. What do you think?

Good work; now my opinion is as follows;

1. Place small text underneath photos with a brief explanation

2. Give more examples of revisionists - examples such as Ursula Haverbeck, Monika Schaefer, Alfred Schaefer, David Irving, etc. Much detail on these people shouldn't be necessary, as long as it is shown that these people were jailed for their controversial statements which they have made.

3. You mentioned the fumigation of a church - a photo with a description would be useful

These are my opinions, and maybe others have different opinions than mine, but those are my thoughts. Good work on this.


I've added the picture of the Church and explanations for the photos.

I do not want to add other people because this flyer is directed to University Students. They can probably identify best with a scientist who was put into jail for publishing a scientific study. I am still considering to place the air photo of the roof of crema 2 into the flier.

Haverbeck is portayed as a Nazi in Germany and she does appear to be very far on the right. Therefore, the average brainwashed German cannot feel any sympathy for her. A flyer with a prominent picture of her would have little or no impact.

Monika Schaefer's video: "sorry mom, I was wrong about the holocaust" is probably a very good topic for another flyer. But, this flyer should be directed to older people who can relate to this. People who actually blamed their parents for the holocaust.

I think it is good as it is. What I would do is contact a German lawyer and ask him if this would qualify as "Holocaust Denial/Hate Speech". If he says yes, revise it, if no, write down his reasons that it is not "Denialism/Hate Speech" so that if you are accused, you can use the lawyer's written words against the accuser. I think that these would be best stapled. They can then be handed to students who are walking by.
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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby Pia Kahn » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:08 am)

I plan to distribute the fliers at the exact same locations, where Sophie Scholl distributed her fliers. I would rather not hand them out, because some crazy antifa-idiot will probably freak out and physically attack you. That's far too dangerous given that the leftists control the university campuses.

I have created a second version, which is slightly longer. It includes the photographic analysis from Ball, which is also part of Germar's paper.
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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:28 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:I plan to distribute the fliers at the exact same locations, where Sophie Scholl distributed her fliers. I would rather not hand them out, because some crazy antifa-idiot will probably freak out and physically attack you. That's far too dangerous given that the leftists control the university campuses.

I have created a second version, which is slightly longer. It includes the photographic analysis from Ball, which is also part of Germar's paper.

You said
I would rather not hand them out, because some crazy antifa-idiot will probably freak out and physically attack you. That's far too dangerous given that the leftists control the university campuses.
How do you plan to get them to students then? These fliers won't just grow wings and come to the students. Someone has to give them to the students. I guess the alternative would be to put them on a table and then watch from 100 feet away. That way, if some communist "ANTIFA" terrorist attacks it, you could just clean it up when he/they leave.
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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby Pia Kahn » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:43 am)

I will just spread them on the stairs, floors and tables in the entrance hall of LMU Munich at a point in time, when most students are not present, in exactly the same way performed by Sophie Scholl.

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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:48 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:I will just spread them on the stairs, floors and tables in the entrance hall of LMU Munich at a point in time, when most students are not present, in exactly the same way performed by Sophie Scholl.

That's respectable; your courage is commended. If I may ask, are you going with the old one or the longer one?
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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby Pia Kahn » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:52 am)

I don't know. What do you think is better?

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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:04 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:I don't know. What do you think is better?
I prefer the longer one; it is more detailed. The shorter one is also good, but I prefer the longer one.
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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby Hannover » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:15 am)

Pia Kahn said:
The very first page should commemorate the heroic deed of the Sisters Scholl.

Since when is communist propaganda heroic?
see:
freedom of speech in Nazi germany - the White Rose group
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10256
exc.:
some points:

- "Free speech"? Imagine distributing treasonous pamphlets against the Allied governments in any of the Allied countries during WWII.

- "Free speech"? Imagine what would have happened to any American or Brit if during WWII they went around saying or distributing material which said:
'Don’t believe Roosevelt's / Churchill's anti-German propaganda meant to frightened you.'

- "Free speech"? Imagine what would have happened to any American who dared to criticize the imprisoning of Japanese-Americans & German-Americans in US concentration camps during WWII.

- "Free speech"? Imagine what would have happened to any Soviet citizen if during WWII they went around saying or distributing material which said:
'Don’t believe Stalin and the Communist Party's anti-German propaganda'.

- Where did these pamphlets come from? Who made them? Anyone can write pamphlets to say anything they wish. Propaganda was the order of the day by the Allies and their communist / Zionist brethren.

In fact, fake pamphlets still seem to be a preferred Zionist method, see:
'Anti-Semitic flyer handed to Jews in Ukraine was a fake ... '
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z430aXz4nl
damning info. here:
The White Rose
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4428

- Hannover

"Some stories are true that never happened."
- Elie Wiesel
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby Pia Kahn » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:22 am)

Sure, we can debate about the white Rose Hannover. But, that's not my point. They protested - for right or wrong - the NSDP policies in a non-violent way. Would the allies have treated them differently? Probably not, you are right. In times of war, ...

By the way, I don't think these kids were communist. They were a in essence a christian movement.

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Re: Legalizing Holocaust Revisionism in Germany

Postby Hannover » 1 week 6 days ago (Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:29 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:Sure, we can debate about the white Rose Hannover. But, that's not my point. They protested - for right or wrong - the NSDP policies in a non-violent way. Would the allies have treated them differently? Probably not, you are right. In times of war, ...

By the way, I don't think these kids were communist. They were a in essence a christian movement.

Were they really a Christian group?
Were their causes Christian?
Did they actually print the alleged flyers?

I suggest you read the links provided.
ex. from: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4428 :
- Are we sure of the origins of those fliers?
- I would really like to see the actual charges brought against them. What do the official, verifiable, Gestapo and court records say? If they are not available, then why not?
- How would these "students" know about '300,000 Jews' ("dreihunderttausend Juden in diesem Land auf bestialischste Art ermordet worden sind")?
- And since when haven't catholics turned communist?
- I have heard that the culprits were beheaded, if anyone can believe that.
- Agitating against the state, any state, in wartime, would certainly bring severe sentences.

The whole matter is a hollow shell.


Cheers, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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