Babi Yar / Trial for 3 Alleged members of Firing Squads? / Fake Pictures & more

[Hannover]

The "Holocau$t Industry" never misses an opportunity provide Revisionists with more information confirming that the '6,000,000 Jews' is a fraud, a scam. The entire affair is buffoonish, a veritable Amateur Hour at every turn. But hey, as is often said: "Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message."

Here we have an article which debunks itself.

It says that they have three "suspects" who were supposedly involved in the alleged mass shooting of 34,000 Jews* at a site called Babi Yar, near Kiev, Ukraine. Evidence against them is not stated, of course. * The numbers have changed, no one knows what they'll be tomorrow.

Then there's the problem that there is no proof that this alleged 'mass murder of 34,000 Jews' ever happened, period. In fact there IS clear & compelling information indicating that it DID NOT happen.
For example:
We have an aerial photo of Babi Yar at the exact time of the alleged action:


But yet we see nothing happening. Think about what we would be seeing if that alleged action was underway.

Then there is the complete lack of human remains, that are alleged. Can anyone actually show us any excavations of Babi Yar with the alleged human remains shown? No you cannot, nor will you ever ... because the alleged mass shooting is a lie. There's no other way to describe it.

Now read on below and see the hilariously fake pictures that are included in the article.
The first one is beyond preposterous.
The second has the typical seam around the dirt above the alleged corpses, corpses which are not corpses at all, just piles of clothing, paper, whatever; but definitely not human remains. Otherwise we would have seen a serious forensic report, like what the Germans did for the Katyn Massacres of Poles by the communist USSR, see that here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=758

also recommended:
!! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! ... of course: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314
and:
'What Happened at Babi Yar? / Fact vs. Myth' / Using air photos and wartime newspapers, Ukrainian writer MICHAEL NIKIFORUK attacks a few myths about a wartime atrocity.: http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html
and:
'Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments': http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en
and:
Bodies at Babi Yar, John Gibbons Reporting: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302
and:
'Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked': viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

Comments invited.

- Hannover

https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-pr ... ng-squads/

German prosecutors mull trials for 3 alleged members of Holocaust firing squads
Former members of the Einsatzgruppe death squads under pretrial investigation for massacring tens of thousands of Jews in Babi Yar, Ukraine


caption: Photo taken from the body of a dead German officer killed in Russia, showing a Nazi firing squad shooting Jews in the back as they sit beside their own mass grave, in Babi Yar, Kiev, 1942.

JTA — German prosecutors have identified three suspects from a 2014 list of nine alleged Holocaust-era war criminals accused of shooting countless Jews.

Kurt G., Herbert W. and Wilhelm Karl Friedrich Hoffmeister, allegedly members of the firing squads that murdered Jews in Eastern Europe during the Holocaust, have been under pretrial investigation for months for alleged war crimes and participation in genocide, the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s Eastern Europe director, Efraim Zuroff, told JTA on Thursday. Each case is being handled by a different regional prosecutor’s office, he said.

Whereas five of the names on the list that Zuroff gave German prosecutors in 2014 were not located, they were able to identify three who they suspect were former members of the Einsatzgruppe C death squad, which took part in the massacre of tens of thousands of Jews in Babi Yar, Ukraine, in September 1941.

The investigation against two of the three men was launched after the ARD television channel interviewed them in September. They admitted to being members of that group on camera. All three men are in their 90s.


caption: Part of the Babi Yar ravine at the outskirts of Kiev, Ukraine where the advancing Red Army unearthed the bodies of 14,000 civilians killed by fleeing Nazis, 1944.

Zuroff said he could not comment on the length of time that the investigations are taking.

“I don’t have the information necessary to make that call,” he told JTA. But, he said, “The German perpetrators of the Holocaust showed great determination in killing Jews. I hope German prosecutors today demonstrate the same sense of urgency in serving justice to those war criminals.”

The path to prosecuting common executioners like Einsatzgruppen troops was paved with the 2011 conviction in Munich of former concentration camp guard John Demjanjuk as an accomplice in the murders of nearly 30,000 Jews in the Sobibor death camp in Poland. It set a precedent in that being a guard at a death camp was sufficient to prove complicity in murder.

Previous prosecutions of Nazi criminals were focused on the architects of the genocide, leading to “very few convictions” of people who actually did the killing, sometimes of hundreds of Jews in a single day, Zuroff said.

[borjastick]

The biggest kicker for me on the claimed Babi Yar massacre is that, I believe, the location was developed and built on in recent decades, yet with no excavation and zero human remains discovered. Surely if this is true the buildings would have had foundations and the local area would have given up its secrets.

Can anyone shine any further light on the development and building plans and history on the site?

[Hektor]

The biggest kicker for me on the claimed Babi Yar massacre is that, I believe, the location was developed and built on in recent decades, yet with no excavation and zero human remains discovered. Surely if this is true the buildings would have had foundations and the local area would have given up its secrets.

Can anyone shine any further light on the development and building plans and history on the site?

Who needs research, if one can simply erect monuments to make people believe stuff:




I'd presume the monuments are close to location, and digging would have been necessary. Nothing would have prevented authorities and academics from doing some thorough research at the site. But it seems they did choose NOT to do so, or they simply aren't publishing the results.

This propaganda movie posing as documentary is also revealing in what it's actually not showing:
https://archive.org/details/SovietPropa ... sShootings

Meanwhile they created a "memorial center" as well:

On June 15, 2018, a meeting of the participants, who signed the Memorandum of Cooperation to create the Babi Yar Holocaust Memorial Center, marked the beginning of the joint work between all parties. The delegation of state institutions included represenatives from the Ministry of Education and Science of Ukraine, the Ministry of Culture of Ukraine, the Kyiv City State Administration :and the National Historical memorial Preserve "Babyn Yar".

http://babiyar.org/en/byhmc-news/posts/ ... -raboty-in

[borjastick]

Another use for the quote 'We don't need evidence, we have witnesses'.

Or maybe we can re-work this to -
There is no evidence so we'll just lie

[Breker]

Another use for the quote 'We don't need evidence, we have witnesses'.

Or maybe we can re-work this to -
There is no evidence so we'll just lie

We believe there were witnesses aplenty, to witchcraft.
How to Create False Witnesses https://daily.jstor.org/create-false-witnesses/
Why eyewitnesses give false evidence – and how we can stop them http://theconversation.com/why-eyewitne ... them-67254

Doesn't the rather bizarre narrative say that the Germans exhumed all the human remains, cremated them, and then used bone grinders to finish the job?
But then we have this pretend 'discovery' picture:

Cleary control of the narrative has been lost. Such is the way of liars.
They've made fake photos that blow up in their face.
B.

[phdnm]

Latest news

Michael Otte, the deputy head of Central office for the investigation of National Socialist crimes in Ludwigsburg explains how to prosecute and come to terms with crimes related to the Nazi regime in World War II runs and whether there are still any, after all, most of the accused are around 100 years old.

They are ready to judge a hundred-year-old man, the hatred of these people has no limit ...

No trial against alleged Nazi criminals: SS soldier is said to have been involved in terrible massacres

by Bhavi Mandalia

November 22, 2020

A 98-year-old from Hessen is suspected of being an SS soldier complicit in the worst massacre of the Nazi regime in Ukraine. But no charge is made.

Melsungen – The case against Herbert W. is closed. The 98 year old Hesse was attending in 2018 War crimes during the Nazi era been accused. W. was accused in 1941 when he was 19 years old at the time Babi Yar massacre in Ukraine to have been involved. The Mass murder of more than 30,000 Jews in today’s Ukraine is considered one of the greatest crimes of the Nazi regime.

Of the Public Prosecutor Kassel it says that although the suspicion persists that the suspect of the 3rd company of the battalion of the Armed SS had been allocated in July 1941. However, the investigations did not produce a clear result as to whether or how this company was organizationally integrated into Sonderkommando 4 a, says Andreas Thöne, spokesman for the Kassel public prosecutor.

Incidentally, concrete evidence proving that the accused was involved in the mass shootings in Babi Yar could not be obtained in the course of the investigation. The proceedings had already been discontinued at the end of March.

No trial against SS men: the accused only claims to have been a medic

The then 96-year-old Herbert W. protested his innocence to the HNA. He said in 2018 that he hadn’t killed anyone. But he confirmed that Armed SS to have been. He was also a member of Einsatzgruppe C. His activity was limited to the medical service.

The case was handed over to the Public Prosecutor Kassel in Hesse from the central office of the state justice administrations for the investigation of National Socialist crimes based in Ludwigsburg (ZST). The central office followed around 30 cases a year until recently. Without exception, it is murder or accessory to murder. All other crimes of the Nazi regime are statute-barred. The suspended proceedings against Herbert W. resulted from preliminary investigations by the central office in Ludwigsburg, says Michael Otte, deputy head of the ZST.

The investigations were directed against three alleged members of Sonderkommando 4 a, a sub-unit of Einsatzgruppe C operating in Ukraine. The other preliminary investigations around the Nazi massacre in Ukraine had been handed over to the public prosecutor’s office in Celle and the public prosecutor’s office in Braunschweig. They have meanwhile also been discontinued due to a lack of evidence and incapacity to stand trial, says Otte.

Search for Nazi perpetrators: Jewish community in Kassel demands clarification of all crimes

No matter how old the alleged ones Nazi perpetrator All cases that are discovered should also be prosecuted, says Ilana Katz, chairwoman of the Jewish community of Kassel (Hesse). This is currently more important than ever. “Anti-Semitism is growing at all levels and in all walks of life, ”says the 58-year-old from Kassel.

And it is precisely in view of these developments that it is important not to flee from the past, but to face it. “We have to deal with the crimes. We all have to do that for our children. ”Everyone is responsible for what happens around them. There are attacks on synagogues, services are held under police protection instead of “the situation is escalating”. “Even if not every criminal has to be put in prison, we all have to learn from the past and fight against exclusion – against everyone.”

Mass murder disguised as an evacuation

The largest massacre in the Third Reich took place near Kiev in 1941. On two days in September, more than 33,000 Jewish children, women and men Executed in the Babi Yar Gorge or Babyn Yar. The mass shooting of the Kiev Jews was seen as an act of retaliation. For example, soldiers of the Red Army were said to have killed occupation buildings as well as members and relatives of the Wehrmacht with explosive attacks. The Wehrmacht, SS and police pretended to want to get the Jewish population out of the city. Instead, they were executed in the ravine. The Jewish population of Kiev before the war was 220,000, most of whom had long since fled.

Nazi Crimes in World War II: Cases Are Still Prosecuted

The central office of the state justice administrations for Solving National Socialist crimes in Ludwigsburg is a joint criminal pre-investigation authority of the federal states. It started work on December 1, 1958. In 2015 it was decided during the Justice Ministers’ Conference to continue the central office as long as law enforcement tasks arise. The focus of the research is on mass killings in concentration camps.

Three men were suspected in 2018, the largest Massacre of the Nazi regime to have been involved. One of them is Herbert W. from Melsung. The case against one of the other three men was dropped because he was no longer able to stand trial. As with Herbert W., no sufficient evidence of involvement in the mass shootings was found against the third man. (Damai D. Dewert)


Search for Nazi criminals: the deputy head of the intelligence agency explains his work

Michael Otte, the deputy head of Central office for the investigation of National Socialist crimes in Ludwigsburg explains how to prosecute and come to terms with crimes related to the Nazi regime in World War II runs and whether there are still any, after all, most of the accused are around 100 years old.

What was Herbert W. accused of?

W. is said to have been a member of Sonderkommando 4 a. This command was a sub-unit of Einsatzgruppe C, which was active in the Russian campaign from June 1941, particularly in various parts of the Ukraine. This Einsatzgruppe was responsible for the murder of ten thousand Jews and Ukrainians.

How did the central office become aware of the three suspects?

The starting point for the research and the filing of the proceedings was a list of around 80 alleged members of the Einsatzgruppen A to D from birth cohorts 1920 and younger.

Who did this list come from?

From the Simon Wiesenthal Center in the USA. The central office has been working with the center for decades on issues relating to the investigation of violent crimes by the Nazis.

How does this kind of further research work?

In the course of the preliminary investigations conducted against W., the central office then tried – as in principle in all further proceedings – to obtain as precise a picture as possible of the victim’s military career and his / her specific involvement in violent National Socialist crimes from various sources.

What material is the central office available for this?

One example is the Ludwigsburg branch of the Federal Archives, which is also located in the building. The procedures processed by the authority since the founding of the central office in 1958 are archived there. After all, there are around 118,000 cases. In these files there are many accounts of witnesses, many of whom are no longer alive today. Research is also carried out in the Federal Archives of the Reich and in the Bad Arolser archives. The central office has more than 1.7 million index cards. The procedures processed by the authority since the founding of the central office in 1958 are archived there. After all, there are around 118,000 cases. In these files there are many accounts of witnesses, many of whom are no longer alive today. Research is also carried out in the Federal Archives of the Reich and in the Bad Arolser archives. The central office has more than 1.7 million index cards. There, for example, all the accused, all witnesses and all other persons relevant to the proceedings are recorded in the name card.

Nevertheless, it is often not possible to prove involvement in the crime.

The research is laborious and is like putting together a puzzle from many small pieces. It is therefore not always possible to fully elucidate a person’s military career and their involvement in killing operations. Occasionally, archive research on a specific person remains completely unsuccessful or does not provide a fully conclusive picture.

What happens after such research?

The legal benchmark is different. The central office then has to submit a case to the public prosecutor’s office if there is an initial suspicion. The public prosecutor’s office may only bring charges against this person if at the end of the public prosecutor’s investigation the initial suspicion has condensed into a sufficient suspicion.

When does the central office submit a procedure?

The legal benchmark is different. The central office then has to submit a case to the public prosecutor’s office if there is an initial suspicion. The public prosecutor’s office may only bring charges against this person if at the end of the public prosecutor’s investigation the initial suspicion has condensed into a sufficient suspicion.

Are there any ongoing investigations?

Yes, a current focus of the investigation is the review of guards from various prisoner-of-war camps.

https://pledgetimes.com/no-trial-agains ... massacres/

[borjastick]

It's not about that man or any other old man. It's about the holocaust and keeping that story going. As long as they can keep the holocaust in the news and in the courts they can keep the sympathy and the money rolling in. In turn that gives the state of israel power and influence and control of the region.

[Hektor]

It's not about that man or any other old man. It's about the holocaust and keeping that story going. As long as they can keep the holocaust in the news and in the courts they can keep the sympathy and the money rolling in. In turn that gives the state of israel power and influence and control of the region.

That's exactly what it is about. The accused are secondary at best. It's all about keeping the narrative/myth in people's mind. If they still find "Nazi War Criminals" and try them, this must have been really bad, right? That's one sublime message people get. There is of course more to it, since there are several parties to whom the affair has great shareholder value or at least some take in the narrative.

Connecting it to Babi Yar also helps to link anti-partisan reprisal executions to the Holocaust narrative. And there is indication that's where the focus has shifted, since it doesn't look too well for the industrial gassing narrative.

There was recently a girl linking corona restrictions to being alone at home with Anne Frank and the German social media crows went nuts about it. It seems that people are more sensitive about the issue at the moment. I just wonder what this means for the Holocaust Myth in general. Last Ditch effort, or will they take it to the next level?

[Hannover]

Hektor asks:

I just wonder what this means for the Holocaust Myth in general. Last Ditch effort, or will they take it to the next level?

The "next level" is well underway. That being the complete banning of free speech on the 'holocaust' narrative worldwide. It is no doubt part of what's being called The Great Reset.

Besides the banning of free speech in much of Europe & Asia, we're already seeing progress being made by big tech and 'the media' in the US.

more:
On the recent purges by big tech media companies:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13343

- Hannover

Only lies require censorship.

[borjastick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3f_2ZKXd-I

This is the youtube channel of an interesting English chap who discuss various things about history and current social situations such as BLM etc. In this episode he discusses the holodomor and Babi Yar. He suggests that the holodomor was caused by or in part the jews and when the Germans came looking for them in Babi yar the locals got their revenge for the holodomor by letting 200,000 be slaughtered in Babi Yar!!!!

He seems to not be up to date with the evidence and thinking that it was nowhere near 200k but only 30k and even that has never been proven, and we would dispute.

His source for the 200k figure is a book called Babi Yar by A. Anatoli which he shows in the video and looks to me like it is probably 40-50 years old.

I made a comment about the current figure etc just to stick my tuppence ha'penny in.