Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

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borjastick
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Re: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial

Postby borjastick » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:53 am)

phdnm wrote:
Zuckerberg is wrong about Holocaust denial, claims Wiesenthal Center


“Mark Zuckerberg is wrong. Holocaust deniers only come in two flavors-those who don’t want to believe there was an Auschwitz and those who want to finish the job," said Rabbi Abraham Cooper.

July 19, 2018

The Simon Wiesenthal Center slammed into Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg on Thursday following an interview in which he said Facebook will not remove content suggesting the Holocaust did not take place.

“Mark Zuckerberg is wrong. Holocaust deniers only come in two flavors-- those who don’t want to believe there was an Auschwitz and those who want to finish the job, like Iran,” said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, the Wiesenthal Center’s Associate Dean and Director of Global Social Action.

“Holocaust denial is the quintessential ‘fake news’. The Nazi Holocaust is the most documented atrocity in history, allowing the canard of Holocaust denial to be posted on Facebook, or any other social media platform cannot be justified in the name of 'free exchange of ideas' when the idea itself is based on a falsehood,” Cooper concluded.

On Wednesday, Zuckerberg gave an interview and said Facebook would not remove posts that denied the Holocaust

"I think there are things that different people get wrong. I don’t think that they’re intentionally getting it wrong," said Zuckerberg who also stated that he found Holocaust denial to be offensive.

Zuckerberg was raised as a Reform Jew and his family came to the US from Germany, Austria and Poland.


https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Zuckerbe ... ter-562911


Once more we see the screaming lunacy of the Simon Wiesenthal institute getting it all wrong. Boooring!!!
Mark Zuckerberg is wrong. Holocaust deniers only come in two flavors-- those who don’t want to believe there was an Auschwitz and those who want to finish the job, like Iran,” said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, the Wiesenthal Center’s Associate Dean and Director of Global Social Action.


No they don't my good fellow. We come in a number of very delicious alternative flavours too. I believe most neo nazis, jew hating holocaust loving extremists are as described by Rabbi Schlomo above. We, on the other hand understand the camps existed, the jews were persecuted and some died under an oppressive regime. However, we also fail to see any evidence of gas chambers and six million dead has been proven at all on any level. Prove it to us Rabbi and we'll change our tune.

Oh, and the holocaust is absolutely deffo not the most documented event in human history, not by a long long long way. If it were we would have records of everything to do with the claimed gas chambers and the millions who went through them, according to you.


'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial

Postby Pia Kahn » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:14 am)

“Mark Zuckerberg is wrong. Holocaust deniers only come in two flavors-- those who don’t want to believe there was an Auschwitz and those who want to finish the job, like Iran,” said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, the Wiesenthal Center’s Associate Dean and Director of Global Social Action."

Sounds like hate speech to me. A group of people is painted with a brush of evil. I don't find it astonishing that the Wiesenthal Center jumps on this issue.

""I think there are things that different people get wrong. I don’t think that they’re intentionally getting it wrong," said Zuckerberg"

If someone get's the holocaust unintentionally wrong, then how can he blamed for this? It means that the holocaust deniers are not per se evil and talking to them is not an act of blasphemy.

This is part of Zuckerberg's message and this is what the Wiesenthal center fears the most: They fear that people may actually start to talk to and argue with the holocaust deniers. They fear the power of our words.
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

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Re: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:18 pm)

If holocaust denial ever took off on Facebook, I'd bet Zuckerberg would change the policy.

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Re: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial

Postby Breker » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:33 pm)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:If holocaust denial ever took off on Facebook, I'd bet Zuckerberg would change the policy.

Eventually it will take off on Facebook. It appears to be everywhere. From basic 'news' sites, to all manners of political sites, we see comments we would not have seen a couple of years ago. Even this Facebook dust-up assists in spreading the word in it's own way.
Information & discussions which shatter the "Holocaust" narrative appear to be unstoppable short of communist style repression.
Brutal attempts at repression is where we're headed according to many.
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

Postby Hannover » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:49 pm)

Yet Zuckerberg's racist Zionist sister advocates laws against free speech pertaining to the fake 'holocaust', wants to imprison Revisionists for Thought Crimes.

excerpts:
What's needed, she said, is a vigorous national debate on whether Holocaust deniers deserve any platform at all. That decision, she said, does not rest with social media platforms alone. Several countries have enacted laws against Holocaust denial, and she suggested that the United States follow their lead.

"As much as I disagree with Holocaust deniers having a voice at all, the reality is that it is not currently considered a crime in the United States, and if we want our social networks to remove this hateful speech and follow the lead of many countries in Europe who denounce it as criminal, we need to expand the conversation more broadly and legislate at a national level," she wrote.
So then, a Constitutional amendment may be in the works?

Revisionists certainly welcome "a vigorous national debate".
The "Holocau$t Industry" most certainly does not, in spite this little girl's grandstanding.

Read on.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
Only liars demand censorship.

'Randi Zuckerberg responds to her brother's Holocaust comments', by Laurie Segall
https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/19/techno ... index.html
Mark Zuckerberg's sister Randi, weighing in on her brother's controversial comments about Holocaust deniers, forcefully denounced such people and "their hateful, disgusting rhetoric." But she said banning them from social media "will not make them go away," and she emphasized the importance of a healthy debate over the role tech companies should play in policing content.

Randi Zuckerberg, who has long worked with many Jewish community organizations, spoke out Thursday in a statement she provided exclusively to CNNMoney. Her comments came one day after her brother drew criticism for telling Recode's Kara Swisher that some Holocaust deniers "aren't intentionally getting it wrong," and so Facebook (FB) would not remove their posts.

"As a leader in the Jewish community, and someone who has worked at the ground floor of social media, I felt a responsibility to weigh in," she wrote.

Mark Zuckerberg's comments drew widespread condemnation on social media and in the press, prompting him to clarify his statement hours later. "I personally find Holocaust denial deeply offensive, and I absolutely didn't intend to defend the intent of people who deny that," he wrote in an email that Swisher published on the tech news website Recode.

Randi Zuckerberg, an early Facebook employee and successful entrepreneur in her own right, said her brother "could have chosen his words differently," but she applauded him for "navigating this incredibly difficult new world where the notion of free speech is constantly changing." And she lamented that a platform that has connected Jewish organizations and united people around the world also can be used as a weapon against them.

"Unfortunately, when we give a voice to everyone, we give it to people who use that voice for good and to people who abuse that voice," she wrote. "Organizations doing impactful work now have more powerful tools than ever before, yet the nasty dark underbelly that exists right beneath the surface has access to those exact same tools."

Removing those tools from the hands of Holocaust deniers and others who espouse hatred and bigotry won't make them go away, she said. "While it can be appalling to see what some people say, I don't think living in a sterile, Stepford-like online community where we simply press the delete button on the ugly reality of how people feel is helpful either," she wrote.

What's needed, she said, is a vigorous national debate on whether Holocaust deniers deserve any platform at all. That decision, she said, does not rest with social media platforms alone. Several countries have enacted laws against Holocaust denial, and she suggested that the United States follow their lead.

"As much as I disagree with Holocaust deniers having a voice at all, the reality is that it is not currently considered a crime in the United States, and if we want our social networks to remove this hateful speech and follow the lead of many countries in Europe who denounce it as criminal, we need to expand the conversation more broadly and legislate at a national level," she wrote.


That said, Zuckerberg did call on the public to insist that tech companies and elected leaders "keep working with as much transparency as possible to keep revisiting these policies and to be ready to act swiftly at the fine line where speech turns to action."

"I wish that these platforms didn't give a voice to those who cry out for divestment from Israel, make anti-Jewish remarks, and many of the other issues affecting our community today," she wrote. "But silencing everyone - or worse, silencing selectively - would be far more nefarious."

Randi Zuckerberg's full statement:

Yesterday, my brother discussed the existence of Holocaust deniers on Facebook in an interview with Kara Swisher at Recode. Since then, it has sparked a tremendous amount of dialogue around the role of Facebook in policing hate speech and if social media should be held to a different standard of content than what is legally considered criminal in the United States. As a leader in the Jewish community, and someone who has worked at the ground floor of social media, I felt a responsibility to weigh in.

I am appalled and heartbroken by the fact that there are still people who deny the Holocaust. My husband and I have spent the last decade involved with Jewish organizations such as Birthright Israel, PJ Library, Reboot, Wexner, The Hartman Institute, the CJM, and JCCs and Federations across the US and Canada, who work tirelessly to ensure that Jewish culture, art and heritage are preserved, and that there are safe spaces to celebrate our culture while also enjoying an increasingly assimilated, multicultural world. I feel sick to my stomach seeing such hateful, disgusting rhetoric.

But as a proud techie and early Facebook employee, I recognize that none of these organizations would have the reach, fundraising capabilities, and impact that they currently do without social media. The very same tools embolden our enemies and simultaneously bring our community together to rally us against intolerance and discrimination.

Banning Holocaust deniers from social media will not make them go away. Those bent on lying, sowing misunderstanding, and breeding hate will never be truly silenced. Let this remind us why we need our Jewish institutions more now than ever.

Unfortunately, when we give a voice to everyone, we give it to people who use that voice for good and to people who abuse that voice. Speak to a million people and you'll get a million different definitions of who fits into which of those categories. Organizations doing impactful work now have more powerful tools than ever before, yet the nasty dark underbelly that exists right beneath the surface has access to those exact same tools. While it can be appalling to see what some people say, I don't think living in a sterile, Stepford-like online community where we simply press the delete button on the ugly reality of how people feel is helpful either.

I don't want to live in a world where Holocaust deniers are given a voice and I think we absolutely need to be having a debate at a national level on whether they deserve a place on any platform at all. At the same time, I also don't want to live in a world where tech companies get to decide who has the right to speech and get to police content in a way that is different from what our legal system dictates.

While my brother could have chosen his words differently when talking about Holocaust denial on Facebook, I applaud him for being a leader at the forefront of navigating this incredibly difficult new world where the notion of free speech is constantly changing. I also applaud everyone who advocates to hold our tech companies and our leaders accountable - we should expect, and even demand, that they keep working with as much transparency as possible to keep revisiting these policies and to be ready to act swiftly at the fine line where speech turns to action. That being said, as much as I disagree with Holocaust deniers having a voice at all, the reality is that it is not currently considered a crime in the United States, and if we want our social networks to remove this hateful speech and follow the lead of many countries in Europe who denounce it as criminal, we need to expand the conversation more broadly and legislate at a national level.

I wish that these platforms didn't give a voice to those who cry out for divestment from Israel, make anti-Jewish remarks, and many, many other issues. But silencing everyone - or worse, silencing selectively - would be far more nefarious. Rather than rally against technology, let's recognize that this hate exists, that it's not going anywhere, and use our anger as a rallying cry to call for legislation to make Holocaust denial a crime, while supporting the organizations, leaders, and institutions working tirelessly on behalf of six million Jews and their families around the world so that we never, ever forget.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

Postby stinky » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:18 pm)

From Randi Zuckerfraud, as quoted above...

"What's needed, she said, is a vigorous national debate on whether Holocaust deniers deserve any platform at all. That decision, she said, does not rest with social media platforms alone. Several countries have enacted laws against Holocaust denial, and she suggested that the United States follow their lead."

What is ACTUALLY needed, despite Zuckerfraud's hysteria, is a vigorous national debate on the hoax itself.
I suspect she won't be advocating for this anytime soon.

She goes on;
"As much as I disagree with Holocaust deniers having a voice at all, the reality is that it is not currently considered a crime in the United States, and if we want our social networks to remove this hateful speech and follow the lead of many countries in Europe who denounce it as criminal, we need to expand the conversation more broadly and legislate at a national level," she wrote."

A weasel sentence, where Randi Zuckerfraud advocates for legislation against 'hateful speech', framing it as a needed "conversation".

The next step would be to grant the usual suspects grand overlord status as to what exactly constitutes 'hate speech'.

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Re: Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

Postby Hektor » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:26 pm)

stinky wrote:.....
What is ACTUALLY needed, despite Zuckerfraud's hysteria, is a vigorous national debate on the hoax itself.
I suspect she won't be advocating for this anytime soon.
....



Yeah, I wonder if there was a fair historical debate to determine whether the Holocaust is historically true or not.

My impression is that we all were spoon-fed propaganda for decades and that mainstream historians leave that little detail out, when proclaiming their "orthodox" truth.

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USC Shoah foundation reacts

Postby Pia Kahn » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:08 am)

https://sfi.usc.edu/blog/stephen-smith/ ... st-deniers

"Contributor: Stephen Smith

Fri, 07/20/2018 - 9:09am

Dear Mark Zuckerberg

I am delighted that at Recode you promised to rid Facebook of rampant misinformation; that is a step of real leadership that we need at this time. While I was initially disappointed that you did not include Holocaust Deniers in the category of those purposefully providing misinformation, as you thought perhaps they are not “intentionally getting it wrong", your clarifications that you "find Holocaust denial deeply offensive" and that you "didn't intend to defend the intent of people who deny that,” are welcome.

Just to be clear, outright Holocaust deniers know exactly what they’re doing. Their entire premise is built on a foundation of misinformation. Those who openly deny the Holocaust are either apologists for the Nazis, right wing radicals, religious extremists, and all are antisemites, even if they deny that too. If they are posting Holocaust denial on Facebook it is almost a certainty they fit into a combination of theses categories. Whether they are espousing the ideas, liking them or reposting them, their sympathies likely lie with scurrilous obfuscation and deception.

Deniers are not interested in correcting historical inaccuracies. Their only purpose is to spread the very kind of antisemisim that led to the Holocaust in the first place.

Mark, I would like to extend a warm invitation to visit USC Shoah Foundation. We have common goals in some key areas. Among the 50,000 Holocaust survivors that gave their testimony to our archive, we will doubtless find tens of thousands who warn us to be vigilant because hatred is a battle of ideas and attitudes, which when left unchecked can cause irreparable damage.

We need your platform for good. It is not your job to police the internet, or to oversee the ill intention of manipulative people, but some things are clear and unambiguous and cause great harm. I do hope we can all find a way to limit the purposeful harm caused by denial, whilst amplifying the good.

Please do come visit, it would be a pleasure to figure this out together.

Posts are contributed by individual authors. The opinions are solely the authors’ and are not necessarily a reflection of the views of USC Shoah Foundation."

Who is the author Stephen Smith?

Stephen Smith
Stephen D Smith is the Andrew J. and Erna Finci Viterbi Executive Director Chair of the USC Shoah Foundation in Los Angeles, whose Visual History Archive holds 53,000 testimonies of eyewitnesses to the Holocaust and other genocides. He also holds the UNESCO Chair on Genocide Education and is an Adjunct Professor of Religion. He founded the UK Holocaust Centre, The Aegis Trust for the prevention of crimes against humanity and genocide. He was Project Director of the Kigali Genocide Centre, Rwanda. Smith, who trained as a Christian theologian, is an author, educator and researcher interested in memory of the Holocaust, and the causes and consequences of human conflict.
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Re: Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

Postby Breker » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:06 pm)

"Who is the author Stephen Smith?"

Someone who makes a lot money saying what he says, that's who.
So of course he's going to make up lies about revisionists, rather than actually asking revisionists.
Who benefits?
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

Postby Spect3r » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:01 pm)

This development makes me think that maybe this statement by Mark was just a way to start the procedures that will end up with holocaust denial being made illegal in all the countries where no such law exists at the moment.

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Re: Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

Postby Hektor » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:05 pm)

Spect3r wrote:This development makes me think that maybe this statement by Mark was just a way to start the procedures that will end up with holocaust denial being made illegal in all the countries where no such law exists at the moment.

You'd have to elaborate and explain what gave/gives you that idea!

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Re: Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

Postby Spect3r » 2 months 3 weeks ago (Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:13 pm)

Hektor wrote:
Spect3r wrote:This development makes me think that maybe this statement by Mark was just a way to start the procedures that will end up with holocaust denial being made illegal in all the countries where no such law exists at the moment.

You'd have to elaborate and explain what gave/gives you that idea!


Or was a spur of the moment kind of thing, or we do have to admit that is something odd for a person like Mark Zuckerberg to bring up, he should know the kind of reaction a statement like that would bring.
It got worldwide attention and reaction, with some of thus reaction going as far as asking for holocaust denial to be made illegal even in USA where you have the 1st amendment... i dont know, maybe im just paranoic or maybe im on to something... open to both possibilities.

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Lazy Katie Gibbons and Zuckerberg:

Postby David M » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:45 pm)

The Katie Gibbons article in the Time London should be reviewed by every Revisionist as a textbook propaganda smear.

It is a conflation of images designed to promote censorship of Revisionist scholarship.
Gibbons never gives a definition of Revisionism or discusses what Revisionists say. She relies on the comments from Dave Rich, a self-appointed expert on "Anti-Semitism" who declares that Holocaust denial (aka Revisionism) is "by its definition... antisemitic." Mr. Rich goes on to claim that "the whole point of it is to incite hatred against Jews by claiming the is a conspiracy."
Gibbons also quotes Karen Pollock of the Holocaust Education Trust who claims that
not believing is an "incitement to hate."
Rich stands the facts on their head; claiming that demonic Germans had huge baby bonfires, underground trick showers, and human soap factories.
Brazenly, Rich accuses people who don't Believe in these sick, impossible tales to
be hateful. Gibbons does not even notice this contradiction.

Gibbons seems to be an incompetent reporter too lazy to do her own research, talk to any Revisionist, or even read any Revisionist writings. She is content to regurgitate the distorted propaganda of people like Dave Rich.

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Re: Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

Postby Moderator » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:09 pm)

David M,
May we have a link?
Thanks, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Zuckerberg: Facebook will not ban Holocaust denial / but sister Randi promotes law against free speech

Postby David M » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:19 am)

Moderator wrote:David M,
May we have a link?
Thanks, M1



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/holo ... -2wtvfx7qf

Katie Gibbons
July 27 2018, 12:01am,
The Times


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