Irving's Views on Reinhardt Camps

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derekp78
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Irving's Views on Reinhardt Camps

Postby derekp78 » 1 week 4 days ago (Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:15 pm)

I learned recently that David Irving now accepts something close to the orthodox numbers of murders (2 million) at the 3 Reinhardt camps (Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka).

I've not been able to find where this statement was made, or specifically what he said. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm curious what facts affected his decision. I know some will insist that being imprisoned had something to do with it, but I want to know what Irving himself cites in defense of his position.



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Hannover
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Re: Irving's Views on Reinhardt Camps

Postby Hannover » 1 week 4 days ago (Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:47 pm)

These will help:

Irving's 'holocaust' lite / but what '2.4 million document'?
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4548
and :
'Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4558
and:
Grubach's Open Letter to David Irving on his recent change of mind about the Holocaust
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4563

- Hannover

Only Desperate Liars Advocate Censorship
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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derekp78
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Re: Irving's Views on Reinhardt Camps

Postby derekp78 » 1 week 4 days ago (Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:16 am)

The Wikipedia page has an English translation of the telegram (probably old news for the regulars here)

12. OMX de OMQ 1000 89 ? ?
State secret! To the Reich Security Main Office, for
the attention of SS Obersturmbannführer EICHMANN, BERLIN [...rest missed...]
13/15. OLQ de OMQ 1005 83 234 250
State secret! To the commander of the Security Police,
for the attention of SS Obersturmbannführer HEIM, KRAKAU.
Re: 14-day report Operation REINHARD. Reference: radiogram from there.
Recorded arrivals until 31 December 42, L 12761, B 0, S 515, T 10335 totaling
23611. Situation [ ... ] 31 December 42, L 24733, B 434508, S 101370,
T 71355, totaling 1274166.
SS and police leader of Lublin, HOEFLE, Sturmbannführer.


So in Irving's view, "arrivals" = "gassings?" There's no way an historian of his caliber would make such a logical leap. I see two possibilities.

1. Irving has additional evidence beyond the Hoefle telegram, and I'm simply unaware of it.

2. Considering what he's been through, if this is Irving's "poison pill." His scholarship in this area cost him a lot, including his freedom for a time. Perhaps he chose to endorse the most transparently false claim of the orthodox holocaust story so as to get the thugs off his back without giving them an argument they could actually use.

I'm reminded of the SS officer Gerstein's statement where he admits that an absurd 25,000,000 were murdered at Auschwitz. It could be the same tactic: give the opponent the admission they're killing you for, but make it so ridiculous that people who actually investigate the issue would never believe it.

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Re: Irving's Views on Reinhardt Camps

Postby Hektor » 1 week 4 days ago (Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:49 pm)

derekp78 wrote:The Wikipedia page has an English translation of the telegram (probably old news for the regulars here)

12. OMX de OMQ 1000 89 ? ?
State secret! To the Reich Security Main Office, for
the attention of SS Obersturmbannführer EICHMANN, BERLIN [...rest missed...]
13/15. OLQ de OMQ 1005 83 234 250
State secret! To the commander of the Security Police,
for the attention of SS Obersturmbannführer HEIM, KRAKAU.
Re: 14-day report Operation REINHARD. Reference: radiogram from there.
Recorded arrivals until 31 December 42, L 12761, B 0, S 515, T 10335 totaling
23611. Situation [ ... ] 31 December 42, L 24733, B 434508, S 101370,
T 71355, totaling 1274166.
SS and police leader of Lublin, HOEFLE, Sturmbannführer.


So in Irving's view, "arrivals" = "gassings?" There's no way an historian of his caliber would make such a logical leap. I see two possibilities.

1. Irving has additional evidence beyond the Hoefle telegram, and I'm simply unaware of it.

2. Considering what he's been through, if this is Irving's "poison pill." His scholarship in this area cost him a lot, including his freedom for a time. Perhaps he chose to endorse the most transparently false claim of the orthodox holocaust story so as to get the thugs off his back without giving them an argument they could actually use.
...

He pretends that he believes this to be the ultimate proof of those camps serving a homicidal purpose. And given his renown other people will pick up on this. But if those people aren't fools they will see pretty quickly that this is zero evidence for killings, let alone homicidal gassings in those camps. The best way to bend it, is to add the common rumors about those camps and since most people are rather silly, a lot of them will believe that.

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Re: Irving's Views on Reinhardt Camps

Postby Rogal Dorn » 1 week 2 days ago (Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:05 pm)

derekp78 wrote:I learned recently that David Irving now accepts something close to the orthodox numbers of murders (2 million) at the 3 Reinhardt camps (Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka).

I've not been able to find where this statement was made, or specifically what he said. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm curious what facts affected his decision. I know some will insist that being imprisoned had something to do with it, but I want to know what Irving himself cites in defense of his position.


You can find all of Irving's current views on the holocaust summed up by the man himself in this youtube video/interview done almost a decade ago (in 2009):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz2vWsUMcMs

It is a video over 2 hours long, mostly talking about his family, his books, his trial with Lipstadt and the fallout, but in the last 45 minutes or so of the video he sums up his current views.

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Carto's Cutlass Supreme
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Re: Irving's Views on Reinhardt Camps

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 week 2 days ago (Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:36 am)

I am so glad I made the video One Third of the Holocaust on the Reinhard camps. It's a 4 hour video that Irving just can't respond to. And I'm so glad Mattogno and Graf wrote Treblinka. And I'm so glad for all the Reinhard exposé threads on this forum.

It's such a poorly crafted lie that they even got the name wrong, as Treblinka myth pioneer Robert Faurisson pointed out: naming it after Reinhard Heydrich has a problem: since when do you use the first name? You use the last name. What if his name was Marc Heydrich. Would it have been "Operation Marc"?

When I saw Irving speak in person, he said the holocaust happened on order of magnitude. He told the whole crowd this. What he meant is if 2.7 million died at the Reinhard camps, then that is on order of magnitude with a larger number like 5 or 6 million.

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Re: Irving's Views on Reinhardt Camps

Postby Pia Kahn » 1 week 2 days ago (Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:59 am)

..."2. Considering what he's been through, if this is Irving's "poison pill." His scholarship in this area cost him a lot, including his freedom for a time. Perhaps he chose to endorse the most transparently false claim of the orthodox holocaust story so as to get the thugs off his back without giving them an argument they could actually use...[/quote]

Irving has suffered quite a lot. Irving used to drive through London in a Rolls Royce and lived in a big house. He has lost his wealth, his income, his reputation and for several years his freedom in an Austrian prison cell. His spine has been broken.

Yes, the Hoefle telegram only attests to deportations not to mass murder. Irving must know this very well. But, Irving has chosen to tell the public what it wants to hear because he doesn't want to take anymore flak for saying the truth.

It's a sad story, but we should forgive Irving this fault. Irving has written important historical works in the past and for this he should be remembered.


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