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PRHL
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Catholics and Holocaust denial

Postby PRHL » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:05 pm)

Among Catholics, the "6 Miillion" number is generally not accepted.

You probably know of Robert Faurisson's text "The revisionism of Pope Pius XII."

Also a prominent denier was the late bishop (sedevacantist, llke me) Louis Vezelis.
https://en.rightpedia.info/w/Louis_Vezelis

Now I found an interesting part in the book of Germar Rudolf
Bungled: “Denying the Holocaust”. How Deborah Lipstadt Botched Her Attempt to Demonstrate the Growing Assault on Truth and Memory , 2017, 82f:

############
One newsworthy item she [Lipstadt] picked from the ADL newsletter she describes as follows (pp. 66f./75f.): “Not all the early deniers had overt associations with extremist groups. Consequently they were able to make some of their ac- cusations in more mainstream publications. In the June 14, 1959, issue of the widely cir- culated Catholic weekly Our Sunday Visitor a letter writer claimed: ‘I was able to de- termine during six post-war years in Germany and Aus- tria, there were a number of Jews killed, but the figure of a million was certainly never reached.’” Again, letters to the editor of newspapers aren’t a quotable source. So why even bother? On the other hand, when rely- ing on her ADL source, did Lipstadt even realize what she was quoting? This letter to the editor was written by Stephen F. Pinter, a U.S.-American lawyer of Austrian descent who served as an attorney for the U.S. War Department in Germany after World War II, where he helped preparing and conducting a number of war-crimes trials against former German concentration camp personnel, most promi- nently that of the Flossenbürg camp, where he led the prosecu- tion team. Hence, here we have a person who probably had some background knowledge about what happened during the prepa- ration and conduct of some of the war crimes trials in Germa- ny. But all he uttered was an opinion in a letter to the editor, most likely without any input from any Holocaust revisionist.
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Re: Catholics and Holocaust denial

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:45 pm)

PRHL wrote:Among Catholics, the "6 Miillion" number is generally not accepted.

You probably know of Robert Faurisson's text "The revisionism of Pope Pius XII."

Also a prominent denier was the late bishop (sedevacantist, llke me) Louis Vezelis.
https://en.rightpedia.info/w/Louis_Vezelis

Now I found an interesting part in the book of Germar Rudolf
Bungled: “Denying the Holocaust”. How Deborah Lipstadt Botched Her Attempt to Demonstrate the Growing Assault on Truth and Memory , 2017, 82f:

############
One newsworthy item she [Lipstadt] picked from the ADL newsletter she describes as follows (pp. 66f./75f.): “Not all the early deniers had overt associations with extremist groups. Consequently they were able to make some of their ac- cusations in more mainstream publications. In the June 14, 1959, issue of the widely cir- culated Catholic weekly Our Sunday Visitor a letter writer claimed: ‘I was able to de- termine during six post-war years in Germany and Aus- tria, there were a number of Jews killed, but the figure of a million was certainly never reached.’” Again, letters to the editor of newspapers aren’t a quotable source. So why even bother? On the other hand, when rely- ing on her ADL source, did Lipstadt even realize what she was quoting? This letter to the editor was written by Stephen F. Pinter, a U.S.-American lawyer of Austrian descent who served as an attorney for the U.S. War Department in Germany after World War II, where he helped preparing and conducting a number of war-crimes trials against former German concentration camp personnel, most promi- nently that of the Flossenbürg camp, where he led the prosecu- tion team. Hence, here we have a person who probably had some background knowledge about what happened during the prepa- ration and conduct of some of the war crimes trials in Germa- ny. But all he uttered was an opinion in a letter to the editor, most likely without any input from any Holocaust revisionist.
############


I suppose it depends on your audience of Catholics. Some Catholics like Pope John II, Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis, are ardent in defending the myth of the holocaust, and have taken trips to Auschwitz.

Image

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More traditional Catholics like yourself are much less passionate about defending it, and in many cases, deny it, such as the Dimond brothers. In your experiences, are less traditional Catholics less open to discussing the holocaust? And have you considered passing out revisionist material at your church?

https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com ... 3SBLitKiUs

https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com ... 3R-3itKiUs

https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com ... 3R-4ytKiUs
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Re: Catholics and Holocaust denial

Postby PRHL » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:26 pm)

The "Vatican 2"-group is not Catholic, so it comes at no surprise that thiese herectics like Wojtyla etc. visited Auschwitz - or a mosque or whtatever. Remember the "World Day of Prayer for Peace" in Assisi, Italy? With the Buddha statue on the altar? Or that "Pope Francis" declared it does not matter in what you believe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKuQqHMhJdY

As I always point out: "Sedevacantism" is the only logical position. And everybody can and must stand to this position, because we have dogmas and only therefore we know exactly what heresy is.
It is a dogma that the Church cannot be heretical. And as the sect of "Vatican 2" is heretical in its own texts (e.g. "Unitatis Redintegratio 3), therefore it is completely impossible that the V2-sect is the Church,

This was my agrumentation in one of my last trials. Germany wnated to put me behind bars once and for all. The court even ordered a psychiatrist who should declare me totally insane. One funny thing: Already a few years ago, exactly the same court had ordered another psychiatrist with this very same task. After a long personal examination of me, the psychiatrist concluded that there was no sign whatsoever of a defect in any way. So the court surrendered and officially declared me for completely sane. And then in this new attempt, the new psychiatrist openly declared that my "sedevacantist" position was "comletlely logical" and I was "fully accountable".
And thus I did not have to spend the rest of my life in confinement. Well, at least not yet...

I only wish that in denial trials: If you are accused of "heresy" / "denial", just ask what dogmas there are!

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Re: Catholics and Holocaust denial

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:35 pm)

PRHL wrote:The "Vatican 2"-group is not Catholic, so it comes at no surprise that thiese herectics like Wojtyla etc. visited Auschwitz - or a mosque or whtatever. Remember the "World Day of Prayer for Peace" in Assisi, Italy? With the Buddha statue on the altar? Or that "Pope Francis" declared it does not matter in what you believe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKuQqHMhJdY

As I always point out: "Sedevacantism" is the only logical position. And everybody can and must stand to this position, because we have dogmas and only therefore we know exactly what heresy is.
It is a dogma that the Church cannot be heretical. And as the sect of "Vatican 2" is heretical in its own texts (e.g. "Unitatis Redintegratio 3), therefore it is completely impossible that the V2-sect is the Church,

This was my agrumentation in one of my last trials. Germany wnated to put me behind bars once and for all. The court even ordered a psychiatrist who should declare me totally insane. One funny thing: Already a few years ago, exactly the same court had ordered another psychiatrist with this very same task. After a long personal examination of me, the psychiatrist concluded that there was no sign whatsoever of a defect in any way. So the court surrendered and officially declared me for completely sane. And then in this new attempt, the new psychiatrist openly declared that my "sedevacantist" position was "comletlely logical" and I was "fully accountable".
And thus I did not have to spend the rest of my life in confinement. Well, at least not yet...

I only wish that in denial trials: If you are accused of "heresy" / "denial", just ask what dogmas there are!


So are you persecuted for your sedevacantist position, or Holocaust revisionism?

Also, back to my original question, in your experiences, are less traditional Catholics less open to discussing the holocaust? And have you considered passing out revisionist material at your church?
If your beliefs cannot stand up to your own sincere scrutiny and skeptical evaluation, they are not worth having.

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Re: Catholics and Holocaust denial

Postby PRHL » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:19 am)

Sedevacantism and Holocaust denial are strongly bound together. That is also true concerning sedevacantism and objections against vaccination, rock music, climate change, financial system - you name it. Some just call it "new world order", in fact it's just satanism. You do not have to believe in satan for being one of his followers (i.e. to be on the highway to hell).

There are people who object the "holocaust story" (whatever "holocaust" means, nulla poena sine lege), who object vaccination, rock music, climate change, financial system and so on. They are just called "conspiracist", and every do-gooder is perfectly happy. The various conspiracists of one specific iussue (vaccination...) normally do not work together. They just ignore the conspiracists of other iussues. So there is a very strong lack of any power. However, virtually all these ignorant conspiracists still have one common enemy:
The Catholic Church.
As the church would combine all reasonable objections against "holocaust story" etc., the church would form a powerful group for truth, justice and freedom - however at the price of a religious life, and that is what most people just do not accept.

Every revisionist (or other conspiracist) knows the first problem that normally no one reads any profound text. They do-gooders only crave for newspaper items. It is so much easier to read "holocaust denial is just Neo-Nazism" than: "The revisionists argue that ...!

As a "sedevacantist", I was accused of "heresy" (yes: heresy!) in a criminal court of the state! The expected sentence was at least two years in jail, however presuming that I would recant my "heresy". And as I do not intend to recant ever, the sentence would necessarily be a life time confinement - preferably in forensic psychiatry.

A German video with English captions is still available - however it only tells a small part of the very complex story:


Now: What is my "heresy"? I reject Vatican 2. Admittedly, I do reject it. But I could prove in court that this is not a heresy. And the psychiatrist in court who should declare me helplessly insane, on the contrary declared that my position is "completely logical" and that I am "fully culpable". So I am still free. I proved that, despite all popular belief, there is no "Vatican 2 dogma", and therefore I cannot be called a heretic.

Enter holocaust revisionism: Everybody believes that there is a "holocaust dogma" / a "holocaust orthodoxy" that makes denial punishable. However, even the famous Jewish soap, that was even part of the IMT protocol, is now openly rejected. Other examples can be found in Barbara Kulaszka, What is Holocaust denial.

So do not wonder why the sect of "Vatican 2" supports vaccination, rock music, climate lies etc. - and do not wonder that the sect of "Vatican 2" abolished the Catholic sacraments for something invalid, the so called "Novus ordo". Hint: Try to translate "novus ordo".

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Re: Catholics and Holocaust denial

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:07 pm)

PRHL wrote:Sedevacantism and Holocaust denial are strongly bound together. That is also true concerning sedevacantism and objections against vaccination, rock music, climate change, financial system - you name it. Some just call it "new world order", in fact it's just satanism. You do not have to believe in satan for being one of his followers (i.e. to be on the highway to hell).

There are people who object the "holocaust story" (whatever "holocaust" means, nulla poena sine lege), who object vaccination, rock music, climate change, financial system and so on. They are just called "conspiracist", and every do-gooder is perfectly happy. The various conspiracists of one specific iussue (vaccination...) normally do not work together. They just ignore the conspiracists of other iussues. So there is a very strong lack of any power. However, virtually all these ignorant conspiracists still have one common enemy:
The Catholic Church.
As the church would combine all reasonable objections against "holocaust story" etc., the church would form a powerful group for truth, justice and freedom - however at the price of a religious life, and that is what most people just do not accept.

Every revisionist (or other conspiracist) knows the first problem that normally no one reads any profound text. They do-gooders only crave for newspaper items. It is so much easier to read "holocaust denial is just Neo-Nazism" than: "The revisionists argue that ...!

As a "sedevacantist", I was accused of "heresy" (yes: heresy!) in a criminal court of the state! The expected sentence was at least two years in jail, however presuming that I would recant my "heresy". And as I do not intend to recant ever, the sentence would necessarily be a life time confinement - preferably in forensic psychiatry.

A German video with English captions is still available - however it only tells a small part of the very complex story:


Now: What is my "heresy"? I reject Vatican 2. Admittedly, I do reject it. But I could prove in court that this is not a heresy. And the psychiatrist in court who should declare me helplessly insane, on the contrary declared that my position is "completely logical" and that I am "fully culpable". So I am still free. I proved that, despite all popular belief, there is no "Vatican 2 dogma", and therefore I cannot be called a heretic.

Enter holocaust revisionism: Everybody believes that there is a "holocaust dogma" / a "holocaust orthodoxy" that makes denial punishable. However, even the famous Jewish soap, that was even part of the IMT protocol, is now openly rejected. Other examples can be found in Barbara Kulaszka, What is Holocaust denial.

So do not wonder why the sect of "Vatican 2" supports vaccination, rock music, climate lies etc. - and do not wonder that the sect of "Vatican 2" abolished the Catholic sacraments for something invalid, the so called "Novus ordo". Hint: Try to translate "novus ordo".


This is the problem with having the government basically being the thought police, and saying that your position as a sedevacantist priest is "false", while being a non-sedevacantist priest is "true".

This is also reminiscent of Holocaust historians being persecuted for doing their non-mainstream work. Just as they are persecuted for being outside the box of mainstream historians, you were persecuted for your non-mainline sedevacantist faith and practice.

What Germany needs do to, and what the United States has done, is to allow freedom of association, and freedom of speech. Freedom of association would allow you to practice what you believe and practice your faith without being labeled as a heretic, and freedom of speech would allow holocaust revisionists to do their work without fear of government arrest.

I agree with you that the wording in Section 130 Incitement to hatred (3), which forbids holocaust revisionism in Germany is vague, but it is vague enough to put fear into historians so that they will not publish results which contradict the myth of the holocau$t.
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Re: Catholics and Holocaust denial

Postby Hektor » 3 months 3 weeks ago (Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:56 pm)

JLAD Prove Me Wrong wrote:
PRHL wrote:Sedevacantism and Holocaust denial are strongly bound together. That is also true concerning sedevacantism and objections against vaccination,....
So do not wonder why the sect of "Vatican 2" supports vaccination, rock music, climate lies etc. - and do not wonder that the sect of "Vatican 2" abolished the Catholic sacraments for something invalid, the so called "Novus ordo". Hint: Try to translate "novus ordo".


This is the problem with having the government basically being the thought police, and saying that your position as a sedevacantist priest is "false", while being a non-sedevacantist priest is "true".

This is also reminiscent of Holocaust historians being persecuted for doing their non-mainstream work. Just as they are persecuted for being outside the box of mainstream historians, you were persecuted for your non-mainline sedevacantist faith and practice.

Remember in Germany you get the "Amtskirchen", the official churches that work together with the government on many fields and even get government money. Anything outside is viewed with suspicion, although they are allowed to exist. The tolerated ones are the "Freikirchen", which is mostly protestand or baptist churches. And then are those that are viewed as "sects", famously that is the Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientology. They are tolerated to a lesser degree, sometimes with good reason. The Amtskirchen view each other as competitors, the rest even more. Still they are put in the position were they can judge the other religious organizations. They lost a lot of their power/influence though, as they did in most Western Countries.

It's the same with scholarship, academia and research. There is the bulk of the para-state universities, who are funded by tax-payers money via the government, although they got some autonomy. And then there is their is the self- or crowdfunded researchers or authors. Again official academia tries to disparage and discredit them.

JLAD Prove Me Wrong wrote:What Germany needs do to, and what the United States has done, is to allow freedom of association, and freedom of speech. Freedom of association would allow you to practice what you believe and practice your faith without being labeled as a heretic, and freedom of speech would allow holocaust revisionists to do their work without fear of government arrest.

I agree with you that the wording in Section 130 Incitement to hatred (3), which forbids holocaust revisionism in Germany is vague, but it is vague enough to put fear into historians so that they will not publish results which contradict the myth of the holocau$t.

They won't allow that, since that would increase their risk of losing power. As for the wording, lets call it a bit tricky. It sounds concise, but if you analyse it, it comes out that it is rather unclear what they mean. It helps them to add to the creative dissonance. The present day historians are thoroughly indoctrinated with the Holocaust, 99% won't even consider writing something critical of the narrative. Although I corresponded with some and I got the impression that they new that there is at least no valid evidence for industrial style homicidal gassings in places like Auschwitz.


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