Starved prisoners question

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JoeBloke
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Starved prisoners question

Postby JoeBloke » 2 months 1 week ago (Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:57 pm)

I read that the reason why the concentration camp prisoners were emaciated was because of the allied bombings on the supply lines supplying food to the camps.

While watching Death Mills American Government Film at 18min16sec, the narrator says that ''it was only a short walk from any German city to the nearest concentration camp''. In the film, you can see the healthy German citizens which don't indicate a lack of food.

If the supply lines to the concentration camps were destroyed by the allies, and the German cities were so close, why did the prisoners starve but not the citizens?



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Hannover
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Re: Starved prisoners question

Postby Hannover » 2 months 1 week ago (Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:08 pm)

The German population was not as afflicted by typhus as were the inmates. Though typhus did rage throughout much of Europe during the war*.
Due to the obvious certainty of contagion, the prisoners could not be allowed to mingle with them.

As for Germans, we would need to see exactly what segment of the population you are referring to in that propaganda film you referenced.
Germans in the cities did indeed suffer terribly from food shortages, those in rural regions more than likely grew much of their own food.

From what I understand about typhus, the patient must be treated very carefully, Typhus is very much a wasting disease.
Recall that many typhus victims died when they were given food by the Allies when they entered the sites.

*Sign in Italy:
Image

The obvious point you are trying to make is that the Germans intentionally starved the inmates. That is wrong and there is no proof.
Recall that the purpose of most of the inmates was labor. Deliberately starving potential workers would make no sense.

see:
Did Steve Jobs Die from Starvation or Typhus or … ?, By Friedrich Paul Berg
https://codoh.com/library/document/3946/?lang=en
see:
The Liberation of the Camps: Facts vs. Lies:
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/libcamps.shtml
and much more:
https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relev ... phus+camps
and:
https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relev ... starvation

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Mortimer
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Re: Starved prisoners question

Postby Mortimer » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:53 am)

The prisoners who had the position of kapo were able to in some cases kill other inmates. Because communists were more organised than other prisoners they were able to achieve control over certain activities in the camps. This included the kitchens and rationing system. If you were anti communist or the communists didn't like you they could cut your rations and let you slowly starve. At the end of the war they simply blamed any and all deaths on their captors.
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/10/ ... t-discuss/
https://codoh.com/library/document/4401/
There are 2 sides to every story - always listen or read both points of view and make up your own mind. Don't let others do your thinking for you.

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borjastick
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Re: Starved prisoners question

Postby borjastick » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:04 am)

The question about non interned Germans looking OK while camp prisoners were starving is a good one. Hannover is correct that diseases, not just typhus, were raging through the camps. Food was generally short right across europe. Take the UK as a good example, ration books were issued to control the amount of food a family could buy each week and life was far from pleasant even in a country not invaded and directly subject to many of the war impact as across mainland europe.

Another way of looking at it is that when life was extreme and very hard for the general German public why would they focus on camp inmates when just finding enough to eat for their families was an all consuming day to day issue?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Hannover
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Re: Starved prisoners question

Postby Hannover » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:51 am)

And at the alleged mother of all "death camps", Auschwitz, we see well fed Jews at 'liberation':

Image
Image
Image

- Hannover

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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JoeBloke
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Re: Starved prisoners question

Postby JoeBloke » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:58 pm)

Thank you for your answers.

''The obvious point you are trying to make is that the Germans intentionally starved the inmates.''

I am not trying to make a point, I just had a question.

So perhaps the film only showed the inmates who died from disease and the ones too weak to leave the camp at liberation, while healthy inmates had already left? That would be the reasoning?

The communist part is interesting also.

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Deitrich
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Re: Starved prisoners question

Postby Deitrich » 2 months 6 days ago (Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:12 am)

JoeBloke wrote:Thank you for your answers.

''The obvious point you are trying to make is that the Germans intentionally starved the inmates.''

I am not trying to make a point, I just had a question.

So perhaps the film only showed the inmates who died from disease and the ones too weak to leave the camp at liberation, while healthy inmates had already left? That would be the reasoning?

The communist part is interesting also.


Hi Joe :) I believe you are just asking the question.

The point you referenced is actually the most important...

That the propaganda film deliberately showed starved inmates- as opposed to healthy inmates. And healthy German's as opposed to disheveled ones. I trust you do not dispute the propaganda nature of these films otherwise you would not have found your way to this site and would thus know the resources to ensure this to anyone else.

Following this...

It makes sense that if you are fighting for your very existence- which nobody in any allied country has ever had to do so have no actual concept of- when you are about to completely collapse and die out under crushing pressure- the "jails" (inc. camps) are "obviously" going to be the last on the list for basic rations. That is not deliberate.

Next.. The supply for the camps came from the supporting city(s) with the main trainline running into it. If these lines were ruined (clearly) there is no actual question why those in the camps in general ran worse than the cities.

The cut off of the camps is undeniable fact.

The deliberate allied starvation policy is undeniable fact.

The actual diet of the inmates being adequate is undeniable fact (by both testimony and document).

Within the camp functioning itself- guards and SS come first- then Kapos, then regular inmates. Nothing irrational here either.

I trust you can verify the statements made (if not please ask for verification which will be provided in thread)- otherwise view it as a guide to a definitive answer :!:

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Hektor
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Re: Starved prisoners question

Postby Hektor » 2 months 5 days ago (Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:35 pm)

Mortimer wrote:The prisoners who had the position of kapo were able to in some cases kill other inmates. Because communists were more organised than other prisoners they were able to achieve control over certain activities in the camps. This included the kitchens and rationing system. If you were anti communist or the communists didn't like you they could cut your rations and let you slowly starve. At the end of the war they simply blamed any and all deaths on their captors.
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/10/ ... t-discuss/
https://codoh.com/library/document/4401/


That's right, this was even noted by sykewar officers:

CONFIDENTIAL 3. Besides the top positions in the trustee organization, there were a number of key Communist strongholds in the administration of the camp. One was the food supply organization, through which favored groups received reasonable rations while others were brought to the starvation level. A second was the hospital (REVIER), staffed almost exclusively by Communists. Its facilities were largely devoted to caring for members of their party. All scarce drugs (and many were scarce at BUCHENWALD) were reserved for Communist patients, and hospital food was available for members of the Party even if not absolutely necessary. Another Communist stronghold was the property room (EFFEKTENKAMMER).
https://archive.org/details/EdwardTenen ... rt/page/n7


Here is an article:
https://archive.org/details/CommunistAt ... ld/page/n0


A Report on Dachau only mentions Communists briefly:
https://archive.org/details/WilliamHarl ... rt/page/n0
But I think a thorough investigation would hint into a similar directions.

Communists or not, if a group of prisoners takes control of food distribution, it's to be expected that they will take care of their own, especially, when anxiety increases. Concentration Camps are actually a good example of Socialism in action: No private property, centralized control, lots of "free stuff". Naturally Communists will actually thrive in that environment more than others.

Ironically Communist were/are among the most virulent Holocaust promoters, yet their role within the NS-Concentration camp system seems to have never gotten the attention it deserves. One reason may of course been that at the relevant universities, pro-communist academics had a sway over the research done and information disseminated.

Perhaps that's an angle Revisionist could take in Germany: Expose the role of Communists in Buchenwald and other camps. You won't have to "deny the Holocaust", but still could challenge the presently popularized narrative.


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