Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

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Hannover
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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Hannover » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:42 am)

I see nothing about 'unarmed Jews being murdered' in your posted text.
Of course upon execution they would be unarmed.
I do see some laughable German text which proves only that fakes can be typed in German. Look at the damn thing, there is nothing indicating that what is merely typed is a true, official German document. It's just a copy of a piece paper typed by who knows who to mean whatever they wanted.
As I stated and this forum has repeatedly demonstrated, forgeries were commonplace with communists.

Indeed, the Germans were fighting the 'bestial communists', hence their need to find and execute the illegal combatants. So what?

Wake up, Werd. It is THEY that claim that massive human remains exist in allegedly known places related to the Einsatzgruppen and the alleged 'death camps'. As I posted:
Per THEIR alleged ‘holocaust by bullets’ the ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
Is that:
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?

Also recall the alleged 34,000 Jews at Babi Yar supposedly shot by the Einsatzgruppen:

former Einsatzgruppen Members Reject Bizarre Claims of Mass Shootings / Babi Yar, etc.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11396

!! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! ... of
course

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314

Aerial of Babi Yar at exact time of the absurdly alleged shooting of 34,000 Jews:
Image
Nothing happening that would necessarily be happening IF the story was factual.

And yes they faked way more than two documents, I suggest you read posts at this forum and learn.

- Hannover

No enormous human remains as alleged, no Einsatzgruppen actions as alleged, and no 'holocaust'.
Last edited by Hannover on Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Werd » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:50 am)

Werd wrote:So never any examples of killing unarmed Jews just for being Jews. I'm sure HC would disagree.
https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... gical.html
Bila Tserkva, 'Gegenrasse' and the Ideological Roots of the Nazi Murder of Jewish Children
Author: Jonathan Harrison
In August 1941, 90 Jewish children in Bila Tserkva, Ukraine, were shot by forces under the ultimate authority of General Field Marshall Walther von Reichenau. When Generalstabsoffizier Helmuth Groscurth attended a meeting to discuss the necessity of killing the children, the Field Commander, Reidl, gave him a justification based purely on ideological [weltanschauliche] grounds [facsimile here, translation here]. The subsequent shooting was described by August Haefner in testimony for the Callsen trial. Reichenau's reply to Groscurth confirmed his permission for these murders, whilst his order of a few weeks later echoed Reidl's emphasis on ideology by stating that "The soldier in the eastern territories is not merely a fighter according to the rules of the art of war but also a bearer of ruthless national ideology and the avenger of bestialities which have been inflicted upon German and racially related nations." Reichenau thus reflected a worldview (Weltanschauung) that the "pitiless extermination of foreign treachery" via a "severe but just revenge on subhuman Jewry" was necessary in order to "to liberate the German people once forever from the Asiatic-Jewish danger." An important task for historians is to address the roots of those beliefs and how they differed from the racism directed at most other Nazi victims of mass murder, such as Slavs.


So...all fake? Including the German facsimile?

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Hannover » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:58 am)

Werd:
So...all fake? Including the German facsimile?
I am not sure how Babi Yar relates to Mattogno's mistakes that HC pointed out and I quoted in my second post but which has still not been addressed by anyone on this board.

Yawn, I said I see nothing which proves your unsubstantiated claims about the Einsatzgruppen.

"Facsimile". LOL

Indeed, the one I singled out is as fake as a three dollar bill. The rest do not prove your claims.

Still waiting for you to show us the alleged massive human remains in allegedly known places.

- Hannover

No enormous human remains as alleged, no Einsatzgruppen actions as alleged, and no 'holocaust'.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Deitrich » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:17 am)

I was going to give the first response to this but opted out due to a lack of my own detailed understanding on this particular issue. And also the angle which the poster (Werd) was trying to come from.

The issue comes from "Holocaust Controversies", a shill site. This site has been utterly discredited on the Reinhardt issue. That forum is a gigantic ad homenim attack, and the "proofs" they offer come in the form of "proven in court" kind of stuff- which when demonstrated as being a show trial, disproves their arguments- and so on. Other articles are self-refuting due to their absurdity. After considerable visits I have never seen a single article in which they have not been refuted on every single point even on their own comments- and never survived here in free-debate mode.

This would probably explain why all orthodox professors steer clear of them with a 10 foot pole- as they know they discredit the lie-movement they are trying to preserve through more dependable methods (prosecution, censorship etc).

There is also a certain proportion of revisionists and exterminationists both which regard Controversies as a neo-nazi site- the idea being that they present arguments so absurd as for ordinary people to see them as such and thus an undercover revisionist movement (if true- this kind of post let's the cat out of the bag and sorry).

For anybody to promote the Holocaust in any way as being real- they first have to learn that the whole thing is a lie. So either we have to accept that the entire Controversies crowd are intellectual deserts- with no knowledge of even the basics of the topic they are talking about- OR- they are playing a game (either deliberate lie-promotion, or undercover-revisionism).

On topic, Werd's post is devoid of any particulars- could you/(s)he please define the problems you are trying to highlight for myself and anybody else who may read this and require clarification.

You first need to clarify what those problems are (?)

There's no serious question the Jager report is falsified- if there is a serious case for it being authentic could you please present that case??

The links given indicate nothing of any substance adding credence to any of those claims.

Moreover the links given are in the same cryptic language essentially undecipherable to an ordinary person- certainly myself. Why are all the HC articles written in a code language? Similar to your own posts? Why can there not be a direct rhetoric on the issue? The answer seems obvious to any revisionist, even an inexperienced one.

Again- could you please decipher the HC's problems from the babble in the links for us, and please identify the problems you yourself have identified.

I allege the reason the HC links are non-sensical is deliberate in order to passingly sound relevant in a situation where there is none. As for yourself Werd- I can't question your motive on this forum, but I would ask why you would not clarify the issue here and why you would opt to also be cryptic?

I expect Einsatzgruppen to be a knock out blow when I read it in this area. I would also expect all extant issues to be addressed and what is covered to render any potential arguments moot at worst or ridiculous at best. Waiting eagerly.
Last edited by Deitrich on Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Moderator » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:21 am)

Werd:
Essentially, you are trying discuss a book which is not available yet.
Discussion of that book can certainly take place at this forum when it is available to English speakers.
That's it.
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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Horhug » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:31 am)

The prison death of Karl Jäger / Karl Jager / Karl Jaeger

Wikipedia : Karl Jäger



Holocaust Controversies : The Jäger Report (8)

Jäger’s suicide

After blatantly lying about his involvement in the killings and trying to shift the blame onto others during the interrogations, Karl Jäger took his life in the night from 21 to 22 June 1959, by hanging himself in his cell with an electric cable. Before he had written farewell letters to the family of his son-in-law Sepp Fackler and to his interrogator Aedtner, in which he claimed that he had committed no crimes and heaped no guilt on himself, furthermore lamenting the "terrible fate" he had met (Wette, Jäger, p. 168). Below is a copy of Jäger’s farewell letter to Aedtner, which is shown on page 170 of Wette’s biography.



June 21 and 22, 1959 was the 18 th anniversary of Operation Barbarossa, the German invasion of the Soviet Union ...

Karl Jäger / Karl Jager / Karl Jaeger appears to have had a very acute sense of timing ...

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Moderator » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:33 am)

Werd:
Also, I will not spend anymore time explaining to you what is obvious. Give the book debate a rest until the book is available in English.
There are many who would find the alleged translations of 'The Industry's' Robert Muehlenkamp untrustworthy. He certainly has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar more than a few times, to say the least.
Until we have the book in English to review, that discussion will cease. Please continue to discuss Jaeger and / or the Einsatzgruppen until then if you wish.
We do note that you have been challenged on some of the points that you claim about the Einsatzgruppen, so please, no dodging here.
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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Werd » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:55 am)

Indeed I have been challenged to show all the graves that could fill a football stadium. And yet, if one checks my early posts on page 1, they will not see my claiming I could fulfill that burden. That is because I never argued as such. I am questioning Mattogno's ability to analyze and compare documents and do simple math...after what HC posted.

My interest was whether or not any revisionist had any good explanation for the error HC appears to have found in Mattogno's arithmetic as outlined in my second post. Also, nobody apparently wanted to respond to the point raised in footnote 27 in part 1 which appears to demonstrate Mattogno also did not really point out an "anomaly" regarding a correct or incorrect document heading, as quoted in my (Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:00 am post.

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Deitrich » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:24 am)

Werd wrote:
My interest was whether or not any revisionist had any good explanation for the error HC appears to have found in Mattogno's arithmetic as outlined in my second post. Also, nobody apparently wanted to respond to the point raised in footnote 27 in part 1 which appears to demonstrate Mattogno also did not really point out an "anomaly" regarding a correct or incorrect document heading, as quoted in my (Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:00 am post.


Werd- I realise you are not here to teach or deal with a "newb" to this holocaust issue. You also realise what I consider of someone trying to promote something ludicrous (like Jager documents) as "real"- but I wish to leave that aside and ask you to clarify one thing personally for me tagged- "purely" on the grounds that I cannot follow what you write half the time- and to forgive me for that.

This footnote 27 part 1- it was not really clear to me, nor did it really appear to demonstrate anything clinching. What you are saying is that regarding the document, Mattogno, if what your friends are saying is correct, provided only a "weak" argument regarding merely the heading of the document?

Assuming that is in fact true- how does that detract from the fact that the document is demonstrably fraudulent on virtually every angle? Some very strong? I'm sure you have access to what those points are as the rest of us as well as your friends at HC. The total discrepancy with the physical evidence even left aside as coroboratory, on documentary grounds alone it's absurd, as Jager himself tells us before "suiciding" [liar-language for "executed"] I mean you cited Wikipedia, their "alt" counterpart Metapedia gives it a far more convincing spin. https://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgr ... er_Reports

Basically I'm asking if you could condense the issue and arguments here in "plain language" and digestible form for an entry level person, without reference to the book. If that's not possible I'll understand and wait for the book.

I "assume" that HC is not an undercover revisionist site (I can certainly see how that conclusion can be reached and why some orthodox professional sources attest to that being the case) and legitimately wants to promote the lie (although I do believe that all at HC are total holocaust deniers of course but choose to lie)

I "assume" that the reason for Holocaust Controversies getting in early here is that they have quickly got a foreign language copy, seen their Einsatzgruppen last remaining but most ridiculous corner smashed to pieces and quickly/desperately released what they could prior to the book being released in English in order to wipe as many minds as possible before the book is extant and the jig is up- yeah pretty sure that makes total sense.

I work in psyche and have a 4 year old child ;) I know how it works.... The book is coming out, HC should just yield and work WITH CODOH, not against.

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Moderator » 2 weeks 6 days ago (Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:08 am)

the last time:
The book will not be discussed here until it is available to English readers.
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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Hektor » 2 weeks 5 days ago (Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:35 am)

Werd wrote:....
3... If the fakes were factual then we would be seeing the enormous human remains to back them up. We do not.

Would we? The holocaust lobby says these two Jaeger reports are real. Okay, are there any coordinates in those reports to where these unopened mass graves are since apparently Aktion 1005 didn't get all the graves opened and their contents burned? Or are we to just rely on witness testimony and hopefully get lucky as Debois did a few times. I.E. Busk graves.
Did the communists make copies?

I'm not sure why forgers would take the time to do fake multiple copies of the same document. Although according to you, they faked TWO Jaeger reports.


The, "but the Nazis removed all the human remains and evidence"-excuse is simply too convenient. Do you really think you can make the remains of a 100.000, 1.000.000 or even 2.000.000 people vanish within a few month within a war time situation? I seriously doubt that?

This is a page from the so-called Jaeger-Report, the Soviets say were in their archives for years:
Image
There is no identifiable signature on it. All that's needed to establish it, would be a piece of paper, a type writer, skilled writer with profound knowledge of the German language. All of which was available to the Soviets at the time.

Jäger escaped capture by the Allies when the war ended, assumed a false identity, and was able to assimilate back into society as a farm hand until his report was discovered in March 1959. Arrested and charged with his crimes, Jäger committed suicide by hanging himself in prison in Hohenasperg while he was awaiting trial in June 1959.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_J%C3%A4ger

The German article states that he didn't change his name. And it isn't exactly easy to "hang yourself" in German prison or detention. They take everything away from you that could be useful for suicide, especially hanging. Also note that Karl Jaeger was apparently 70 years old at that time.

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Werd » 2 weeks 5 days ago (Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:59 am)

it isn't exactly easy to "hang yourself" in German prison or detention. They take everything away from you that could be useful for suicide, especially hanging.

And how are we certain that was done that time? Or any other time?

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby borjastick » 2 weeks 5 days ago (Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:07 am)

Werd wrote:
it isn't exactly easy to "hang yourself" in German prison or detention. They take everything away from you that could be useful for suicide, especially hanging.

And how are we certain that was done that time? Or any other time?


I bet you believe that Himmler killed himself too. DUCK! Pigs flying past...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Hannover » 2 weeks 5 days ago (Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:32 am)

The laughable notion that the Germans made '6M Jews & 5m others' disappear (including the alleged 2M Jews supposedly shot by the Einsatzgruppen) is simply impossible and is contradicted by the narrative itself:
“The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves.”
- Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87
Again, a ridiculous story to be sure, but there it is. Those alleged remains would be available to see, but they are not. The liars have been caught up in their own lies, but Werd buys it anyway. LOL

Werd and the "Holocaust Industry in court:
'Please your honor, there really are millions upon millions of human remains buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, ... but, but, well, umm, we can't show the court. You must trust us, we're Zionists.'

I also see that Werd has dodged the fact that the murder of Germans while in custody was rather commonplace, not the exception, see my links earlier in this thread.

Indeed, all we have, as Hektor posted, is a piece of paper typed by the communists / Zionists to say whatever they wanted it to say. Try that in a real court of law.
'Your honor, while this piece of paper cannot be verified in any way, and we realize that it is not even signed, but you must trust us, after all, we received it from the communists.'

Werd, like others who resort to: ' Well the Germans must have done something' fall back position, is trying to play "holocaust-lite". That notion is no more supportable than the impossible 'gas chambers'. Werd's attempts have revealed just how absurd & unsupportable that game is.

- Hannover

The tide is turning.
Last edited by Hannover on Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Will HolocaustControversies slow Mattogno's English Einsatzgruppen book?

Postby Werd » 2 weeks 5 days ago (Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:47 am)

Hannover wrote:I also see that Werd has dodged the fact that the murder of Germans while in custody was rather commonplace, not the exception, see my links earlier in this thread.

I have read them before but I will re-examine them.


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