Mattogno on the Einsatzgruppen - Discussion suggestions

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EtienneSC
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Mattogno on the Einsatzgruppen - Discussion suggestions

Postby EtienneSC » 1 year 10 months ago (Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:00 pm)

It was suggested recently that we start a separate thread on Carlo Mattogno's book The Einsatzgruppen in the Occupied Eastern Territories—Genesis, Missions and Actions (2018), translated from the Italian:
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=39
To my mind, there may need to be separate threads on each chapter if we are to have a focused discussion. This is the first major revisionist work on the subject and, to judge by its opening, it is rich in content. The book is in two parts and the detailed structure is as follows:

PART ONE: THE EINSATZGRUPPEN
Introduction
Chapters
One The Einsatzgruppen: Structure, Mission and Reports
Two The Einsatzgruppen and the Order to Exterminate the European Jews
Three Jews in Incident Reports and Reports from the Occupied Eastern Territories
Four The Jäger Report and the Executions at Kaunas and Riga
Five The Death Toll
Six The Gas Vans

PART TWO: AKTION 1005
Chapters
One Mass Graves
Two "Aktion 2005"
Three Sonderkommando 1005 in Galicia
Four Sonderkommando 1005 at Babi Yar
Five Sonderkommando 1005 A Other Activities
Six Sonderkommando 1005 B and Center
Seven Aktion 1005 in the Baltic Countries
Eight Shootings, Gassings, Exhumations and Soviet Investigations: Other Significant Examples
Conclusion
Appendices (including a bibliography)

Some of this material has been discussed before - the "gas vans" in relation to Chelmno for example and there is some material on the Einsatzgruppen on CODOH:
https://codoh.com/library/categories/965/
I have come across at least one non-revisionist book that focused on the American post-war trial. Ronald Headland's Messages of Murder (1992) seems to be commonly cited. There is an anti-denial account of some of the issues here:
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ezg3-authenticity-reports/

The Introductions

The book has two introductions, a general one by Germar Rudolf and a more book-specific one by Mattogno.

Germar's introduction contains very general material about historical relations between Russians and Jews, the Jewish involvement with communism and contemporary German attitudes. This has all been discussed elsewhere.

He also gives a description of the translation and publication of the book. He says that there was a decision to address only some of the Holocaust Controversy bloggers' criticisms of the Italian version, as to address them fully would lead to unnecessary delays in making the main contents available in English. It is hoped to produce a German edition with the original wording of German documents around 2019. This is discussed in the following thread:
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12075

I will deal with Mattogno's introduction in a separate post . Please feel free to comment.

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Re: Mattogno on the Einsatzgruppen - Discussion suggestions

Postby Moderator » 1 year 10 months ago (Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:09 pm)

Good points, EtienneSC.

Due to the length and numerous sub-topics within this book, I ask that everyone post comments on a chapter by chapter basis as mentioned by Etienne.
Anyone starting a thread should specify within the title of the thread exactly what they are discussing from the book, and from what chapter.
This approach will make it easier for our readers to follow and debate, which serves the interest of accurate history and free speech.

Thanks, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Mattogno on the Einsatzgruppen - Discussion suggestions

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 year 10 months ago (Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:30 pm)

EtienneSC wrote:To my mind, there may need to be separate threads on each chapter if we are to have a focused discussion. This is the first major revisionist work on the subject and, to judge by its opening, it is rich in content. The book is in two parts and the detailed structure is as follows:


Holocaust Controversies recently wrote an article in response to this new piece of literature. What if we create separate threads in regard to their claims?
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Re: Mattogno on the Einsatzgruppen - Discussion suggestions

Postby Moderator » 1 year 10 months ago (Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:41 am)

JLAD:
OK, but state which chapter each relate to in the title of the thread.
M1
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Re: Mattogno on the Einsatzgruppen - Discussion suggestions

Postby EtienneSC » 4 months 3 days ago (Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:05 am)

I'm afraid that we seemed to lack energy to engage much with Mattogno's book on the Einsatzgruppen. Since then, a tangentially relevant books has appeared, presumably from the exterminationist perspective:
“Aktion 1005”—Spurenbeseitigung von NS-Massenverbrechen 1942–1945: Eine “geheime Reichssache” im Spannungsfeld von Kriegswende und Propaganda. Andrej Angrick. Göttingen: Wallstein, 2018. 2 vols., 1381 pp.

https://academic.oup.com/hgs/article-abstract/34/1/101/5860648
Angrick's books appears to be of a similar level of detail as Mattogno. It's hard to see how he could write so much without citing some meaningful sources. In English, it is something like: "Aktion 1005: Removal of the Traces of NS mass crimes 1942–1945: A “Secret Reich matter” in the disputed area between the turn of the war and propaganda." It looks pricey and possibly not worth the bother, but it would be interesting to hear what, if anything, Angrick has found. The blurb says:
The reconstruction of a gigantic cover-up operation.

Behind the code name "Aktion 1005" is one of the most outrageous and secret events of the "Third Reich": In 1942, the top management issued the order to the "Reich Security Main Office" to make all mass graves in German-occupied Europe unrecognizable. The task was to find the murder sites, dig up the bodies, burn them and camouflage the grounds. The actual work was forced on Jews from the ghettos, prisoners of war and inmates. Attempts have also been made to destroy all available documents and other information that would have documented the genocide of European Jews, the murder of Soviet prisoners of war, the extermination of the Roma and the executions of Polish nationalists.

As a result of years of research, Andrej Angrick was able to reconstruct the scope of the cover-up campaigns as far as possible and to identify the perpetrators and the units involved. Last but not least, the author's goal is to make the few surviving witnesses heard. Her statements and memoirs stood and stand against the efforts to suppress and cover up the perpetrators and later Holocaust deniers.

It's nice to see that we deniers get a mention even on the cover.

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Re: Mattogno on the Einsatzgruppen - Discussion suggestions

Postby borjastick » 4 months 3 days ago (Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:38 am)

How convenient for them. The standard narrative is that everyone and his dog knows where all these hundreds of murder sites are but then they get all camera shy and experience temporary loss of memory. Now this book tells us that the SS and their magical disappearing team arrived at each site and made all the bodies and related evidence disappear.

The same as in sites like Treblinka.

The Einsatzgruppen claims are farcical and should be laughed at whenever anyone from the funny brigade tries to tell us that it all happened. Just roar with laughter and roll your eyes.

The reality is that these men who were very low in strength of number were there to do a policing job, which sometimes required some tough action. Nothing more and nothing less. And you know how I know it? Because if they had these sites where 50-500-5000 had been shot dead into makeshift pits and graves including children and dogs, they would have been exhumed, photographed and milked from here to the promised land...

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