New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Lamprecht
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:38 pm)

A new "peer reviewed" study just came out, claiming the Nazis exterminated 1.7 million Jews in 3 months at Sobibor, Treblinka, and Belzec. They call this a 3-month "pulse of death." Despite the fact that this would result in millions of pounds of remains buried in precisely known locations, not one grave was excavated. It seems to be based entirely on train records ("relies on Arad’s (2) carefully compiled dataset of train deportations"). This study has been making the rounds and has been reported in multiple news websites in the past few hours.

Article: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 463662002/

15,000 murders a day: August-October 1942 were the Holocaust's deadliest months

The killing only stopped when there was no one left to murder.

From August to October 1942, 1.2 million Jews were slain in the Nazi death camps, an almost inconceivable 15,000 people per day, a new study suggests.

This is more than previously calculated,
and is a rate that surpasses recent genocides such as the one that occurred in Rwanda in 1994. In fact, roughly 25 percent of all Holocaust victims were murdered from August to October 1942, which was quite likely the deadliest three months in human history as the German killing machine was at its most lethal.

Study lead author Lewi Stone, a mathematical biologist from Tel Aviv University and Australia's RMIT University, used railway transportation records to reach his conclusions. The “special trains” that transported the victims were kept on strict time schedules, of which the Germans had detailed records of each trip.

Overall, some 480 train trips were made from 393 separate Polish towns, destined for death camps such as Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka. The purpose of those three was strictly for mass murder, unlike camps such as Auschwitz, which also served as forced labor camps.

“Apart from very few exceptions, victims who were transported to the death camps were rapidly murdered upon arrival in the gas chambers, thus giving the system perfected by the Nazis all the characteristics of an automated assembly line,” Stone told Newsweek.

Stone estimates that the Nazi’s murder campaign could have continued at this pace had there been more victims still living in German-occupied Poland. Instead, the murder rate tapered off in November 1942 as a result of there being essentially "no one left to kill," Stone said.

He also said the numbers show “the Nazis’ focused genocide with the goal of obliterating the entire Jewish people of occupied Poland in as short as time possible, mostly within three months," according to Newsweek.

And compared to the 1994 Rwanda genocide, which has been suggested as the most intense genocide of the 20th century, the murder rate during those three months of the Holocaust was 83 percent higher.
The study, "Quantifying the Holocaust: Hyperintense kill rates during the Nazi genocide," was published Wednesday in the peer-reviewed journal Science Advances.




Full study: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/1/eaau7292
Quantifying the Holocaust: Hyperintense kill rates during the Nazi genocide

Lewi Stone

Science Advances 02 Jan 2019:
Vol. 5, no. 1, eaau7292
DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.aau7292


Abstract

Operation Reinhard (1942–1943) was the largest single murder campaign of the Holocaust, during which some 1.7 million Jews from German-occupied Poland were murdered by the Nazis. Most perished in gas chambers at the death camps Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. However, the tempo, kill rates, and spatial dynamics of these events were poorly documented. Using an unusual dataset originating from railway transportation records, this study identifies an extreme phase of hyperintense killing when >1.47 million Jews—more than 25% of the Jews killed in all 6 years of World War II—were murdered by the Nazis in an intense,100-day (~3-month) surge. Operation Reinhard is shown to be an extreme event, based on kill rate, number, and proportion (>99.9%) of the population murdered in camps, highlighting its singularly violent character, even compared to other more recent genocides. The Holocaust kill rate is some 10 times higher than estimates suggested by authorities on comparative genocide.



Some images from the "study" appear below

F1.large.jpg
"Reconstruction of Holocaust monthly kill rate in units of murders per month, totalled for Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka death camps and plotted as a green line from January 1942 to December 1944. The superimposed red line is the total number of murders per month after inclusion of Auschwitz victims and Einsatzgruppen shooting victims (see section S1). The actual Holocaust kill rates for the months of August, September, and October 1942 are highlighted by red dots in the ellipse. The large peak in the year 1944 (red line) represents Auschwitz victims. The thick magenta line indicates the Rwanda kill rate (243,300 murdered per month). The thick yellow box indicates the range of Holocaust kill rates based on recent erroneously published estimates that assume it to be one-third to one-fifth as intense as the Rwanda genocide kill rate."
F1.large.jpg (145.65 KiB) Viewed 693 times


F2.large.jpg
"Cumulative number of victims murdered at the three death camps Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka beginning from 1 January 1942. Almost all of these victims were murdered soon after arrival at the camps. The blue vertical lines indicate initiation (22 July 1942) and termination (4 November 1942) dates of the 105-day speed-up action in the GG death camps. The constant steep slope over this period indicates that the kill rate persisted at an almost constant rate. Note that this dataset does not include victims from outside the GG as in Fig. 1."
F2.large.jpg (63.77 KiB) Viewed 693 times


The study offers truly nothing of value, except showing the utterly nonsensical nature of the Holocaust™ story. It simply uses train records from these AR camps, then assumes that everyone was gassed to death on these records, and then adds Auschwitz and Einsatzgruppen estimates and calls it scholarly work :lol:


From the "study":
Himmler’s order of 19 July 1942 stated that, by the end of December 1942, all the Jews within the GG, with few exceptions, should be liquidated (1). These initial guidelines set a time limit for the entire Operation Reinhard, which, although not met in practice, strongly influenced its efficiency and timeline. According to Gerstein’s report, on 15 August 1942, the “Fuhrer ordered all action speeded up!” (2).


- Himmler's 19 July 1942 order says nothing about "liquidation" or mass murder at all, but rather "resettlement". Here is the order (Nuremberg document NO-5574) I believe:

Code: Select all

Lublin, July 19, 1942

To the
Higher SS and Police Chief East
SS-Obergruppenführer Krüger
Cracow.

I hereby order that the resettlement of the General Government's entire Jewish population is to be completed by December 31, 1942.

As of December 31 no persons of Jewish extraction may remain in the General Government, unless they are in the collection camps of Warsaw, Cracow, Czenstochowa, Radom and Lublin. All other work projects employing Jewish labor forces are to be completed by that time, or, if completion is not possible, are to be transferred into one of the collection camps.

These measures are necessary towards the ethnic separation of races and peoples in the interests of the new European order, as well as towards the security of the German Reich and its spheres of interest. Every violation of this regulation represents a danger to law and order in the entire German sphere of interest, a starting point for resistance movements, and a moral and physical center of disease.

For all these reasons a complete resolution is necessary and thus to be implemented. Any cases where the deadline is expected not to be met must be reported to me so that I may remedy the matter on time. All applications from other offices, requesting exclusions or exemptions, are to be submitted to me personally.

Heil Hitler!

[sgd.] H. Himmler




- Gerstein's 15 August 1942 claim -- (correct me if I'm wrong) This meeting seems to have not taken place. Gerstein reported a meeting as told to him by Mr. Globocnik, and did not actually hear Hitler order that.

check out:
Acclaimed "eyewitness" Kurt Gerstein said that?
viewtopic.php?t=181

Arad's intellectual dishonesty - the smoking gun
viewtopic.php?t=4447




In his book, Gilbert (5) devotes the chapter “At a faster pace” to a similar directive, which he dates to 23 July 1942, when the first trainloads of victims from Warsaw ghetto reached Treblinka. Arad’s (2) data plotted in Fig. 1 indicate that the “speedup” manifested as a sustained activity that was initiated with the emptying of Warsaw ghetto on 22 July 1942 but continued on at a sustained rate for months afterward so that the murdering was almost completely over by December 1942.


The chapter is here, on google books:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Wb1mg ... &q&f=false

It says:

Code: Select all

On 23 July 1942, SS colonel Viktor Brack, the euthanasia expert on Hitler's staff, informed Himmler that General Globocnik 'believes that we must carry out the entire operation against the Jews at a faster pace, for the difficulties that might turn up can freeze the entire operation, and then we will be stuck midway through'. Brack also advised that all able-bodied Jews should be castrated, and the rest exterminated.
The footnote for this excerpt is not available in the sources, because the google books has a limited preview.

I did some digging with the quote, and found that it is referring to Nuremberg document NO-205. This document is discussed here:

NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth
viewtopic.php?t=10396

I am not quite certain what the purpose of sterilizing people you intend to kill with gas chambers? Medical experiments from the 1940s are not evidence of extermination.


More:
In addition to being supported by data, these staggering numbers and rates are corroborated by survivors’ testimonies. At the Belzec death camp, some 600,000 Jews were exterminated (2). Rudolf Reder, one of only two survivors of the Belzec death camp, gave the following testimony in 1944 (32):"This was a long period of intensified murder of Jewish people. I was told by prisoners ….. that the number of “transports” sent to Belzec during September, October and November 1942 was much greater than the “transports” sent previously. During these three months the greatest number of Jewish people were murdered….""During those three months I saw every day a “transport” of 50 wagons with 100 prisoners in each wagon, that is 5,000 victims sent to Belzec. A second identical “transport” arrived every evening. These prisoners were held in the suffocating wagons without food or water until 6 o’clock the following morning. A minimum of 10,000 victims were murdered every 24 hours. There were days that three “transports” arrived. There were days that more than 50 wagons were hauled in each “transport.” The “transports” came seven days a week."


10,000 people murdered every day. I am not quite sure how you can achieve this without leaving massive amounts of physical remains.


See:

Belzec: a fraudulent excavation
viewtopic.php?t=30

Some notes on the Bau-Reder map
viewtopic.php?p=26506#p26506

Bełżec in Propaganda, Testimonies, Archeological Research, and History
https://codoh.com/library/document/6094/?lang=en
See: Chapter 3 - 1. The Witnesses Kurt Gerstein and Rudolf Reder


So they now have another "scholarly, peer-reviewed, authoritative source" showing 15,000 jews per day killed in nazi gas chambers. :roll:



Some more info on the "Aktion Reinhardt" camps:

The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt” - An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers
https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en

Treblinka Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/

Video: One Third of the Holocaust
https://archive.org/details/OneThirdOfTheHolocaust
Mirror: https://codoh.com/library/document/534/
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

User avatar
stinky
Member
Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:59 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby stinky » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:41 pm)

So they now have another "scholarly, peer-reviewed, authoritative source" showing 15,000 jews per day killed in nazi gas chambers. :roll:

Let me guess, this "scholarly" "authoritative" source shows no evidence (other than eye-witness testimony) of;
Killing methods / gas chambers / crematoria / body disposal / human remains

Of course, such trivial points are not required when you have eye-witness testimony, whichever version best fits.
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:14 am)

I've been reading more of this "study" Quantifying the Holocaust: Hyperintense kill rates during the Nazi genocide


From the "study":
Arad’s (2) data plotted in Fig. 1 indicate that the “speedup” manifested as a sustained activity that was initiated with the emptying of Warsaw ghetto on 22 July 1942 but continued on at a sustained rate for months afterward so that the murdering was almost completely over by December 1942.


F3.large.jpg
"Reconstruction of number of victims transported by train per day to Treblinka as plotted from July 1942 to March 1943, all of whom were murdered with few exceptions. Data are from (2) and (3). Trains originated from different districts of the GG. Warsaw ghetto (red) = 267,100 victims transported in total (minimum). The remaining Warsaw District (blue) = 103,020, District of Radom (green) = 364,400, Bialystok District (gray) = 117,970, and District of Lublin (orange) = 33,300."
F3.large.jpg (112.49 KiB) Viewed 659 times


This laughable "study" ignores the overwhelming documentary evidence explaining how the Jews in Warsaw were to be RESETTLED to the east.


From Mattogno & Graf's book on Treblinka (my emphasis):
1. Deportations of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto (1942)

The facts and circumstantial evidence assembled so far lead to the conclusion that Treblinka was mainly a transit camp established for the Jewish population of the Warsaw district, which fits within the framework of National Socialist policy of the resettlement of Jews to the east. The verifiable deportations to Treblinka can be explained in this sense. Let us begin with those from the Warsaw Ghetto.

According to the files of the Jewish Council of Warsaw, the following Jews were evacuated from the ghetto in the summer of 1942:[816]

{TABLE REMOVED}

Thus, 251,545 Jews are supposed to have been deported to Treblinka and murdered there, another 11,315 Jews, however, are supposed to have been deported to the transit camp of the ghetto and put to work there. Are these figures reliable?

First, we emphasize the enormous discrepancy between the number of those fit and those unfit for labor: the former were supposed to have comprised 4.5%, the latter 95.5% of the deportees! Compared to this, on June 30, 1942, in the ghetto of Lodz, 68,896 Jews were employed, i.e. fit for work,[818] of a total population of 102,546 Jews,[819] therefore 67.2%!

Railway documents dealing with the deportation of Jews from Warsaw are unfortunately extremely rare. For the period of interest to us only a single schedule exists relating to this. It was issued on August 3, 1942, by the General Management of the Eastern Railway in Krakow and reads:

"From August 6, 1942, until further notice, a special train with resetlers is running from Warsaw Danz BF [Danzig railway station] to Treblinka and running empty as follows [...]"

The departure of one train per day was scheduled: "1/. P Kr 9085 / 9.30 / Warsaw Danz Bf - Małkinia - Treblinka," with departure at 12:25 PM, arrival at 4:20 PM, and return "2/. Ln Kr 9086 / 11.30 / Treblinka - Małkinia - Warsaw Danz Bf" with departure at 7:00 PM and arrival at 11:19 PM.[820]

Moreover, Albert Ganzenmüller, Secretary of State in the Reichsverkehrsministerium (Ministry of Transport) and Deputy General Director of the German Reichsbahn (Imperial railway), made the following report to SS-Gruppenführer Wolff on July 28, 1942:[821]

"Since July 22, a train with 5,000 Jews makes a daily trip from Warsaw to Treblinka via Małkinia, in addition to a train with 5,000 Jews traveling twice a week from Przemysl to Belzec."

On August 13, Wolff responded:[822]

"I have noted with especial pleasure your report that a train with 5,000 members of the Chosen People has already been running for 14 days to Treblinka every day, and we are thus indeed in a position to carry out this movement of population at an accelerated tempo."

On April 11, 1962, Wolff was confronted with this letter during questioning as a witness at the preliminary investigations for the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial. Wolff made the following statement in reply to this:[823]

"At the time I did not connect the notion of a mass extermination camp with the name of Treblinka. I assumed it was a Jewish reservation [sic], as Himmler had explained it to me."

Incredibly, not a single German report concerning such a large-scale displacement of population has been preserved. The only numerical information available to us comes from a terse excerpt from the Stroop Report:[247]

"The first large resettlement action took place in the period from 22 July to 3 October 1942. In this action 310,322 Jews were removed."

This figure is definitely reliable and on the whole it corresponds to the table cited above, so that this may be taken to reflect actual numbers. It is also quite probable that most of the transports went to Treblinka. It also is clear from the few preserved train schedules that the trains were emptied at Treblinka and returned to their departure point without passengers. Of course, none of this proves that the deportees were murdered in Treblinka. The "Disclosures and Conditions for the Jewish Council" of July 22, 1943, prescribed:[824]

"All Jewish persons who live in Warsaw, of whatever age and sex, are to be resettled to the east."


Exempted from the resettlement were, among others:

"[...] all Jewish persons who, on the first day of the evacuation, are in one of the Jewish hospitals and unable to be discharged. Whether a patient is able to be released is to be determined by a physician to be selected by the Jewish Council."

The following regulation pertains to the baggage:

"Each Jewish resettler is allowed to bring along 15 kg of his property as baggage for the trip. All valuables: gold, jewelry, money, etc., can be taken along. A food supply for 3 days should be brought along."

The announcement of the Jewish Council - likewise dated July 22, 1942 - contained the same instructions but began as follows:[825]

"By order of the German authorities all Jewish persons who live in Warsaw, of whatever age and sex, are to be resettled to the east."

The instructions in regard to baggage contained the following warning:[826]

"Baggage of more than 15 kg will be confiscated."

In an announcement of July 24, 1942, the Jewish Council proclaimed:[827]

"As a result of incorrect information, which is circulating in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw in connection with the evacuation, the Jewish Council in Warsaw was given permission by the authorities to announce that the evacuation of the populace not productively active in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw will, in fact, occur."

On July 29, 1942, the Director of the Jewish Ordnungsdienst (law & order services) issued the following summons:[828]

"I am hereby announcing that all persons, who will be resettled according to the instruction of the authorities, will voluntarily report for the journey on the 29th, 30th, and 31st of July of this year, will receive 3 kg of bread and 1 kg of jam. Place of assembly for distribution of the products - Stawikiplatz at the Wildstraße corner."

The German authorities were providing 180,000 kg of bread and 36,000 kg of jam for the volunteers.[829]

Let us summarize: The Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto were supposed "to be resettled to the east"; sick persons in the hospitals who were "unable to be discharged" were exempt from the evacuation; every person ready for resettlement received 3 kg of bread and 1 kg of jam - all of this does not conform to a policy of extermination.

It is worthwhile to quote what Eugene Kulischer wrote in this regard:[830]

"For the Polish ghettos are not the last stage in the forced eastward migration of the Jewish people.
On 20 November 1941, the Governor General, Hans Frank, broadcast the information that the Polish Jews would ultimately be transferred further east. Since the summer of 1942 the ghettos and labour camps in the German-occupied Eastern Territories have become the destination of deportees both from Poland and from western and central Europe; in particular, a new large-scale transfer from the Warsaw ghetto has been reported. Many of the deportees have been sent to the labour camps on the Russian front; others to work in the marshes of Pinsk, or to the ghettos of the Baltic countries, Bielorussia and Ukraine."

Kulischer even knew all about the fact that

"on 22 July 1942, the Jewish Council of Warsaw received an order to prepare 6,000 persons to be sent away daily."[831]

In the months that followed, letters and post cards, which were addressed to their relatives by deported Jews, arrived in the Warsaw Ghetto from Białystok, Pinsk, Bobruisk, Brzezc, Smolensk, Brest Litovsk, and Minsk.[832] The resistance organizations in the ghetto, who at that time were already peddling the atrocity stories of the steam chambers, were of course making fast and loose claims that these letters and cards were forgeries fabricated by the Germans for the purpose of deceiving the Jews. On December 4, 1942, this claim was put out in an announcement of the Jewish resistance organization.[833] And in an appeal of January 1943 by the Jewish resistance organization of the Warsaw Ghetto, it said:[834]

"In the course of the last weeks, people of certain circles were spreading news about letters, which supposedly came from Jews who were evacuated from Warsaw and who are now supposed to be in labor camps at Pinsk or Bobruisk."

The authors of the appeal were alleging that such news was being spread by people "who are working for the Gestapo." The official historiography later gave up this simple-minded assertion and has supported the thesis that the letters and post cards had been "written under duress at Treblinka,"[835] but not a single one of the self-described survivors of Treblinka has made claims of this kind. In fact, this information confirms - however fragmentarily - the picture drawn by E. Kulischer.

On May 30, 1943, a transport was sent to Bobruisk with 960 Jews, who had been arrested in the Warsaw Ghetto. On July 28 of the same year, another transport of Jews from Warsaw arrived in Bobruisk; a portion of the deportees were sent on to Smolensk.[836]

In the Informacja Bieżąca no. 30 of August 17, 1942, is a reference to 2,000 "skilled workers" on a transport of August 1 from the Warsaw Ghetto to Smolensk. Another transport with 2,000 craftsmen departed for Malaszewicz,[837] a town at the border to White Russia, about 12 km from Brest. The report of September 7, 1942, "Liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto" mentioned earlier confirmed:[838]

"Two small transports with 4,000 persons were sent for labor at installations important for the war in Brzesc and Malachowicze."

Finally, the arrival of at least one transport from the Warsaw Ghetto at a location east of Treblinka has been documented beyond any question. On 31 July 1942, the Reichskommissar for White Russia, Wilhelm Kube, sent a telegram to the Reichskommissar for the Ostland, Heinrich Lohse, in which he protested the dispatching of a transport of "1,000 Jews from Warsaw to work at Minsk," because this would lead to danger of epidemics and an increase in partisan activity.[839]

On August 5, 1942, Lohse responded in a letter with the subject "Import of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw," in which he indicated that

"the practical realization of the solution of the Jewish problem is exclusively a matter for the police."

The responsibility "for the orderly realization of the measures," was also that of the police, so that protests were not permissible.[840]

Kube took up the problem anew in a letter written on August 17, 1942, to Lohse (again on the subject "Import of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw") and requested further instructions, since he wished to make "fundamental decisions concerning the taking in of further Jews into White Russia as a police matter."[841]

At least one Jewish transport "with workers" (P KR 9130) arrived in Treblinka on August 25, 1942, from Międzyrzec Podlanski,[842] but there is no reference that it was for the labor camp Treblinka I.

Deportations of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto to ghettos of the Baltic countries Latvia and Lithuania find additional confirmation in the deportation lists of Jewish transports already mentioned from Kaunas and Riga to Stutthof in the summer of 1944.
These lists, although only fragmentarily preserved, include the names of approximately 1,200 Polish Jews, among them 112 boys and girls of up to 15 years of age.

Furthermore, sources already cited earlier mention the transfer of Jews from Polish ghettos to the Ukraine by way of Bełżec at the end of March 1942. G. Reitlinger writes regarding this:[843]

"The reports, which reached the Polish Exile Government in London, that Jews were resettled in Russia from Belzec camp, should be discounted as part of the camouflage that Heydrich had been creating since the Wannsee conference. In fact, the allusions to the Krivoi Rog Jewish colonies and the Pinsk land reclamation camps may derive from fake field postcards."

Therefore, while the Einsatzgruppen were allegedly shooting Jews in the broad light of day and with no attempt at secrecy, other SS people were taking pains to forge postcards in order to cover up their alleged mass murders in 'extermination camps'!
Read more: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/10.html



More from the "study":
While this was happening, “some participants [in Warsaw ghetto] maintained quite reasonably that it was impossible to deport half a million people” (4). By September 12, at least 254,000 Warsaw ghetto victims had been transported, most of whom were rapidly murdered upon arrival at Treblinka gas chambers, thus giving the system perfected by the Nazis all the characteristics of an automated assembly line. As Hilberg (1) noted, a “salient fact about the killing center operations is that, unlike the earlier phases of the destruction process, they were unprecedented. Never before in history had people been killed on an assembly-line basis.”
...
Spatial effects can also clarify comparisons of genocides when factored into kill rate calculations. From this perspective, it is notable that Rwanda is less than 20% of the geographic size of the GG and that all Tutsi victims were concentrated together, living alongside the perpetrators of the massacre. In theory, this facilitated the Rwanda massacre considerably. In contrast, the assembly line killing of the Holocaust relied heavily on a geographically dispersed train network that could require days at a time to transport victims from locations across Poland and concentrate them at the death camps. Despite its broad spatial extent, Operation Reinhard ran at a substantially higher kill rate for sustained time lengths, as compared to the Rwanda genocide.


So we have an "assembly line killing" method, that relies on wasting considerable time and fuel during war-time to transport the victims to the "automated assembly line" diesel-exhaust "gas chambers"? This is utterly nonsensical and clearly the exact opposite of an "automated assembly line".

Not to mention, the total lack of physical evidence at Treblinka for this alleged murder of hundreds of thousands, which would result in millions of pounds of burnt remains... all buried in precisely known locations. :|



Check out:

Caroline Sturdy-Colls lied.
viewtopic.php?t=11121

Wiener Library / fraudulent & debunked Sturdy-Colls Treblinka exhibit
viewtopic.php?t=10572

Treblinka Archaeology Hoax (video)
https://archive.org/details/TheTreblinkaArchaeologyHoax

Comments on Treblinka Statements by Caroline Sturdy Colls
https://codoh.com/library/document/3952/?lang=en
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9696
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Hannover » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:43 am)

Lamprecht:
It seems to be based entirely on train records ("relies on Arad’s (2) carefully compiled dataset of train deportations"). This study has been making the rounds and has been reported in multiple news websites in the past few hours.

Article: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 463662002/

And those train records are for inbound trains only, while the outbound train records that were kept are conveniently nowhere to be found.

see:
'Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2355

No human remains of millions in allegedly known locations, no 'holocaust'.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:19 pm)

The author of this laughable "study" now has an article in the TImes of Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-i-mea ... holocaust/

How I measured murder rates during the Holocaust

An investigation into what is referred to as Operation Reinhard, the Nazi slaughter of over 1.5 million Jews in a period of just 100 days


Even though the Holocaust is one of the best documented genocides in a historical sense, there is surprisingly little quantitative data available, even on major critical events.

What’s more, this history is often told in figures too large to comprehend on the human scale.

Large numbers – like the infamous 6 million people murdered – obscure the significance of key operations that shaped this genocide, leaving instead just a vague characterization of a massively devastating event.

In a digital age, mathematics, data science and visualization can help make sense of these events for new generations.


In the modern age, we have such methods as ground penetrating radar, core sampling, etc. 1.5 million people allegedly gassed and buried in exact locations, but we depend on incomplete train records as "proof" of a genocide?


By examining a rare and neglected dataset of human train deportations from the period, my study, published on January 2, begins to uncover the true scale of slaughter.

Yet, as Hannover pointed out, there are virtually no outbound train records... And even if the trains were empty, these would exist. Certainly, they are probably hidden or destroyed because they utterly refute the standard story.


Operation Reinhard

My work investigates a period in 1942, referred to as Operation Reinhard, when the Nazis efficiently shuttled about 1.7 million victims, often whole Jewish communities, across the European railway network in train carriages to Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor. Almost all of those who arrived at these death camps were murdered, usually within hours, in the gas chambers. Because the Nazis destroyed nearly all records of the massacre, it is important to try to uncover what actually happened at the time.

They destroyed the outbound train records but not the inbound records? This makes no sense.


My study looks at the “kill rate,” or murders per day. This reveals a sudden massive slaughter after Hitler “ordered all action speeded up,” as one SS officer put it, on July 23, 1942. Approximately 1.5 million Jews were murdered in only 100 days, including in shootings outside the death camps, with nearly 500,000 victims killed each month during August, September and October. That’s approximately 15,000 murders every day.


Yes, imagine murdering 15 thousand people every day for 3 months straight, and then somehow obliterating all evidence of this massive crime. It is literally impossible.

This is what passes for "scholarly work" -- what a joke!
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9696
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Hannover » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:52 pm)

1.7,000,000 supposedly killed in the Reinhardt camps?
So where are the human remains too be seen?

There were not even any crematorium at the Reinhardt camps to reduce the supposed 1.7M victims that the Germans allegedly had to hide. Of course the shyster author of this "study" just ignores basic logic & science.

After all, crematorium, as impossible as the claims about them are, is what is said to have been used to supposedly hide the physical evidence at Auschwitz*. Even that would have left countless tons of human remains.

And how were they supposedly killed? The author of this bogus study does not say.

According to the laughable false narrative, in gas chambers that scientifically could not have done what is claimed either.

Alleged location of Reinhardt site, Treblinka, mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.
Image

photo from ‘Surviving Treblinka’, by Samuel Willenberg.
Image
It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”.
Does anyone see any “corpses”?

Reinhardt site, Sobibor, ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.
Image

* Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.1M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.
Image

In all, we're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents to be seen, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

Per their alleged "holocaust by bullets" the ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
Is that:
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

- Hannover

No human remains of millions to be seen in allegedly known locations, no 'holocaust'.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:41 pm)

Hannover:
And how were they supposedly killed? The author of this bogus study does not say.
He claims it is gas chambers.

From the "study":
Operation Reinhard (1942–1943) was the largest single murder campaign of the Holocaust, during which some 1.7 million Jews from German-occupied Poland were murdered by the Nazis. Most perished in gas chambers at the death camps Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka.
...
The three Nazi “death camps” or “killing centers” were infamous for their industrial mass killings and their ability to rapidly liquidate entire Jewish communities with the aid of gas chamber technology, thereby resulting in a large-scale “Holocaust by Gas.”
...
By September 12, at least 254,000 Warsaw ghetto victims had been transported, most of whom were rapidly murdered upon arrival at Treblinka gas chambers, thus giving the system perfected by the Nazis all the characteristics of an automated assembly line.



The standard narrative claims "Diesel exhaust" gassings at Treblinka (which are highly inefficient for mass murder)... in contrast to claims of electrocution and steam chambers. There is no consistency in the official story-line.

Diesel Gassings
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5936



In fact, it is most commonly claimed that the CO gas generators were soviet tank engines... a total absurdity.

More efficient CO generator would be the very simply designed "Wood gas generator" see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator

Diesel engines, in contrast, produce less than 1% of gas from carbon monoxide, and an oxygen level approaching that of normal air. This is discussed in the following article:


The Diesel Gas Chambers: Ideal for Torture – Absurd for Murder
https://codoh.com/library/document/926/


Given these revelations, some of the hoaxters switched their story from diesel exhaust to a more pernicious gas:

Treblinka is now a petrol engine (Wikipedia)
viewtopic.php?t=8543


A glaring example of the "Begging the question" logical fallacy (petitio principii), exemplified in no better way than a statement signed by 34 French "historians":
"It is not necessary to ask how, technically, such a mass murder was possible. It was possible technically since it took place. That is the necessary point of departure for any historical inquiry on this subject. It is our function simply to recall that truth: There as not, there cannot be, any debate about the existence of the gas chambers."
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

Hekmatyar
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:57 am

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Hekmatyar » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:38 am)

A quick comparison how this “study” was received by come communities:
On reddit it sparked over 10k upvotes and more comments anyone could read in a sensible amount of time…
A few posters seem to have reasonable knowledge about “Aktion Reinhardt”, on the other hand posters seem to fail to notice that there is nothing new in the “study”.
After “sorting by controvertial” it becomes evident that, although the “special status” of the Holocaust compared to other genocides is questioned, there is practically zero revisionist criticism. Not even the word “diesel” appears... This may be due to lack of effort because the past has shown that revisionist comments were always heavily censored by moderators and also attacked on mere emotional grounds by the biased reddit masses.
Second, there was also thread on this topic on (ideologically opposite) “voat”, with less than 1% of total content, compared to reddit. Many of comments could actually be considered “denial”, as the posters seem reject the “study” mostly out of ideological bias without having bothered to learn about either about the “official version” or revisionist critique thereof.
Third, this forum: The total scope of the threat is another order of magnitude smaller.
The strong revisionist arguments that eviscerate the “orthodox version” are repeated among the small circle of the already “knowing”.

So it seems the “study” was published not because it contained anything new. (Similar death toll plots were already made by the revisionist Thomas Dalton.) Instead it simply served in delivering another sermon for the Holocaust-religion. Personally it felt kind of painful for me reading the reddit threat, seeing all this mass delusion, being unable to engage into a debate but feeling the urge to do so … So my question: Are there any ideas on how to spark a debate or to plant the seed of doubt on a forum like reddit, which is heavily biased but could provide a large outreach?

User avatar
JLAD Prove Me Wrong
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:35 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:13 pm)

Hekmatyar wrote:So my question: Are there any ideas on how to spark a debate or to plant the seed of doubt on a forum like reddit, which is heavily biased but could provide a large outreach?


That is an interesting question, and definitely worth discussing, but it probably deserves it's own topic.
If your beliefs cannot stand up to your own sincere scrutiny and skeptical evaluation, they are not worth having.

Rogal Dorn
Member
Member
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Rogal Dorn » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:48 pm)

The mainstream media claims an average of 8,888 people were killed PER DAY during the rwandan genocide in 1994, totaling about 800,000 people in a span of 90 days. We've never been shown any significant number of bodies, just a few hundred skulls (at least there's that compared to virtually nothing for the AR camps)

Maybe they got their ideas from there, lol.

Sasquatch
Member
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:41 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Sasquatch » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:18 pm)

Rogal Dorn wrote:The mainstream media claims an average of 8,888 people were killed PER DAY during the rwandan genocide in 1994, totaling about 800,000 people in a span of 90 days. We've never been shown any significant number of bodies, just a few hundred skulls (at least there's that compared to virtually nothing for the AR camps)

Maybe they got their ideas from there, lol.


Having been there at the time I can tell you that 800,000 is probably a conservative estimate, you couldn't go anywhere without coming across bodies - sometimes alone, sometimes in the hundreds (never seek sanctuary in church during a genocide) - even spread out across the entire country it had a distinct visual impact.

I can't fathom what 1.7 million would look like compressed into the small area of the camps where they supposedly died.

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:27 pm)

Image

Image

Soldier Field football stadium has a total maximum capacity of 61,500

And in Rwanda, most people were killed by... bullets? Exactly where they were standing, correct? And what about starvation?

In the "Treblinka Holocaust" they were supposedly:
- Rounded up
- Loaded onto trains
- Deported to a "death camp"
- Sent to a gas chamber
- Gassed to death
- Physically removed from the gas chambers
- Buried in precisely known locations
- Later, these graves were dug back up
- Burned on open air pyres
- Reburied in the exact same mass grave[s]
- Mass grave[s] covered with a layer of soil MAGICALLY OBLITERATING all evidence of this enormous crime

And the number of jews supposedly killed in this method at Treblinka is equivalent to 14 stadium-fulls worth of people...

Yeah, makes perfect sense!
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2388
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby borjastick » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:02 am)

I can't fathom what 1.7 million would look like compressed into the small area of the camps where they supposedly died.
Top- sasquatch


The size of these camps, or should I say the small area these camps occupied is an often overlooked but important element in the tall story department. The camps were, for the most part, very small. Thus when you take on board the claims of the death tolls within them it is easy to dismantle the possibility of it happening just with that part of the maths.

EG.

Sobibor was just 60 acres in area.

Treblinka much smaller still at just 42 acres

Belzec, the only size I could find on a variety of Holocaust promotion web sites was a circumference of 1200 yards. Not sure how many acres that is but I think it is less than 20 acres.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

Sasquatch
Member
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:41 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Sasquatch » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:04 am)

Lamprecht wrote:Image

Image

Soldier Field football stadium has a total maximum capacity of 61,500

And in Rwanda, most people were killed by... bullets? Exactly where they were standing, correct? And what about starvation?

In the "Treblinka Holocaust" they were supposedly:
- Rounded up
- Loaded onto trains
- Deported to a "death camp"
- Sent to a gas chamber
- Gassed to death
- Physically removed from the gas chambers
- Buried in precisely known locations
- Later, these graves were dug back up
- Burned on open air pyres
- Reburied in the exact same mass grave[s]
- Mass grave[s] covered with a layer of soil MAGICALLY OBLITERATING all evidence of this enormous crime

And the number of jews supposedly killed in this method at Treblinka is equivalent to 14 stadium-fulls worth of people...

Yeah, makes perfect sense!


Actually most were killed with edged weapons, predominantly machetes but yes most died wherever they were found hiding. Starvation wasn't really a factor.

I know this will sound like a silly question here but why would the Germans go through such extraordinary lengths to hide what they were doing and not realize that maybe somebody might notice 6 million people suddenly went missing?

I mean if they were smart enough to invent magic crematoriums capable of disposing of bodies far in excess of even today's abilities then surely someone must have been able to envision what the logical conclusion of such an endeavour would be.

Sasquatch
Member
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:41 pm

Re: New study: 1.7 million jews killed in "hyperintense" 100-day "pulse of death" killing spree

Postby Sasquatch » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:10 am)

borjastick wrote:
I can't fathom what 1.7 million would look like compressed into the small area of the camps where they supposedly died.
Top- sasquatch


The size of these camps, or should I say the small area these camps occupied is an often overlooked but important element in the tall story department. The camps were, for the most part, very small. Thus when you take on board the claims of the death tolls within them it is easy to dismantle the possibility of it happening just with that part of the maths.

EG.

Sobibor was just 60 acres in area.

Treblinka much smaller still at just 42 acres

Belzec, the only size I could find on a variety of Holocaust promotion web sites was a circumference of 1200 yards. Not sure how many acres that is but I think it is less than 20 acres.


That's interesting.

I have some experience with mass graves but nothing larger than +/-200 people so I did some quick research on the Katyn massacre (approximately 22,000 dead) and the only grave dimensions I found were for one grave measuring 28m x 16m with 3,000 bodies stacked 12 deep. So my math as follows:

28m x 16m = 448m2

If 3000 bodies = 448m2 , then 22,000 = 3283.84m2. (22,000 / 3000) x 448 = 3283.84

1 Acre = 4046.86m2, therefore Katyn's mass graves cover 0.81 acres.

If Treblinka had 800,000 bodies all buried together that would mean just the grave dimensions would be 29.45 acres. (800000 / 22000) x 0.81 = 29.45 acres.

That doesn't leave much room for anything else, 12.55 acres to be precise.

Bear in mind I was a soldier not a mathematician so feel free to correct my numbers if required.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests