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Oscar Grouch
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Introduction - New Member

Postby Oscar Grouch » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:36 am)

An introduction, which turned into a short essay. :oops:

Like the vast majority here, I was brought up in the post-war era and probably a bit nearer to that era than most. In my youth there were newspapers, radio and the cinema. Generally anything outside the media remained gossip and largely ignored.

What this produced was a belief based society in which government propaganda became truth, but facts were ignored and turned into conspiracy theories. Today, despite the plethora of Internet information, we regress back to the age of beliefs as America recently wheeled out Obama as a Messiah and a new generation of survivors of survivors queue for their share of entitlement compensation handouts.

Historical revisionism now gets a bad press, yet is it wrong for science to provide facts, which previously were based on beliefs? Isn’t the purpose of historians to delve into the truth behind the beliefs of bygone eras? If we’re to learn from history, what will we learn from the propaganda behind
My revisionism didn’t happen with a bang because of something I’d read, but over a period of time as I began to question my beliefs. How do you kill six million people and the rest of the population remain blissfully unaware of it? Why would death camp inmates be disinfected, tattooed, clothed, fed first and then killed? Why would the Hollywood makers of "Schindler’s List", which reads like a Tel Aviv phone directory, try to present it as fact when the book on which it was based, "Shindler’s Ark", won the Booker Prize for fiction in 1982? Were the skeletal remains found in liberated camps the work of an extermination policy, or the effects of Typhus and typhoid epidemics at the war’s end as the supply lines were cut? Questions, questions.

There remains no doubt that the Jews suffered during the war, lost families, died en masse, yet so did every other race and nationality.
The figures at Auschwitz magically drop from four million to one and a half million after Polish independence enabled scientific inquiry and the ‘survivors’ who hadn’t contacted typhus or typhoid give thanks that Auschwitz was a slave labour camp and not an genocidal extermination center.

Image


The war wasn’t about Jews, or genocide, it was about Germany throwing out the Jewish International financiers and abandoning usury. The Jews were simply presented as the victims to prevent it happening again. Other countries who recently tried to break the Jewish financial stranglehold, Iraq, Libya and Syria also suffered the same fate. As Churchill later said:

"Germany’s unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an independent exchange system from which the world-finance couldn’t profit anymore. …We butchered the wrong pig." - Winston Churchill (The Second World War – Bern, 1960)

Churchill won, yet he lost an Empire and as predicted long ago, the west entered into an age of Jewish cultural Marxism that destroyed western civilization from which it will be near impossible to recover from.

"Humanity would sink into eternal darkness, it would fall into a dull and primitive state, were the Jews to win this war." - Dr Joseph Goebbels.

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borjastick
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Re: Introduction - New Member

Postby borjastick » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:30 pm)

Welcome Mr Grouch.

You make a compelling argument but I would like to respond to a couple of points you made.

Firstly the official story of those inmates in Auschwitz who were tattooed is that this practice happened only in Auschwitz and in no other camp, and if they were tattooed they were to live and work in the camp. Those sent to the gas chambers were not tattooed and not recorded in the record books.

Secondly the quote attached to Churchill about butchering the wrong pig is I think a myth. I have checked this quote a couple of times and it appears to be fake.

Anyhow welcome to the big boys club, enjoy everything you see here and enjoy the journey. I've been on a Revisionism journey for many years and still I wait for the claims of the holocaust to be shown to me as true.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Introduction - New Member

Postby Hannover » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:13 pm)

Oscar Grouch said:
There remains no doubt that the Jews suffered during the war, lost families, died en masse, yet so did every other race and nationality.
The figures at Auschwitz magically drop from four million to one and a half million after Polish independence enabled scientific inquiry and the ‘survivors’ who hadn’t contacted typhus or typhoid give thanks that Auschwitz was a slave labour camp and not an genocidal extermination center.

- Your use of "en masse' needs clarification.

Jews died of disease and Allied related aerial attacks on supplies entering the the labor camps. None died in the impossible 'gas chambers'.
Those Jews that were shot were done so due to their illegal activity in the non-uniformed terrorist partisans. Those executions were completely legal under laws of the period, and the numbers alleged have been laughably exaggerated.

In a nutshell: No human remains of millions to be seen in allegedly known locations, no 'holocaust'.,

Your Auschwitz number are just the tip of the iceberg. Here are the ever changing numbers:
Numbers below taken from the ever changing fake Auschwitz numbers</b>: search.php?keywords=faurisson&t=5631&sf=msgonly
9,000,000 persons
according to the documentary film Nuit et Brouillard (Night and Fog, 1955), whose historical advisers were the historians Henri Michel and Olga Wormser-Migot.

8,000,000 persons
according to the French War Crime Research Office and the French War Crime Information Service (1945).

7,000,000 persons
according to Raphaël Feigelson (1945).

6,000,000 Jews
according to Tibère Kremer, writer of a foreword for Miklos Nyiszli (1951).

5,000,000 to 5,500,000 persons
according to Bernard Czardybon (1945), according to confessions attributed to some SS members and according to the newspaper Le Monde (1978) that added: "of whom 90% Jews".

4,500,000 persons
according to Henryk Mandelbaum (1945).

4,000,000 persons
according to a Soviet document of which the Nuremberg tribunal took "judicial notice". This figure was inscribed nineteen times, with a commentary in as many different languages, on the Auschwitz-Birkenau monument. It was repeated by many different authors, including the Polish historian Franciszek Piper, ex-curator of the Auschwitz Museum. Then, it was declared false in 1990 and replaced on the monument, in 1995, by the figure of 1,500,000 with the concurrence of the same F. Piper for whom this figure is a maximum, while the minimum figure is 1,100,000. According to Miriam Novitch (1967), of the 4,000,000 dead, 2,700,000 were Jewish. According to Rabbi Moshe Weiss (1991), more than 4,000,000 persons died at Auchwitz, of whom 3,000,000 were Jews.

3,500,000 persons
according to the Dictionnaire de la langue française published by Hachette (1991). According to Claude Lanzmann (1980), there were 3,500,000 gassed of whom 95% of Jews as well as many other deaths.

3,000,000 persons
until December 1st, 1943, according to a confession extorted from Rudolf Höss, ex-Commander of Auschwitz.

3,000,000 Jews gassed
according to David Susskind (1986) and according to Heritage, the most important Californian Jewish weekly (1993).

2,500,000 persons
according to Rudolf Vrba for the Eichmann trial (1961).

2,000,000 (?) to 4,000,000 (?)
according to the historian Yehuda Bauer (1982).

2,000,000 to 3,000,000 Jews killed as well as thousands of non-Jews
according to a confession attributed to an SS named Pery Broad.

2,000,000 to 2,500,000 persons killed
according to a confession attributed to an SS physician, Dr. Friedrich Entress (1945).

2,000,000 persons
according to the historian Léon Poliakov (1951); according to the historian Georges Wellers (1973) and according to the woman historian Lucy Davidowicz (1975).

1,600,000 persons
according to the historian Yehuda Bauer (1989), of whom 1,352,980 Jews (the latter figure is from Georges Wellers, 1983).

1,500,000 persons
this figure, chosen by Lech Walesa, replaced, in 1995, on the Birkenau monument, the previous one of 4,000,000, withdrawn in 1990.

1,471,595 persons
of whom 1,352,980 Jews, according to the historian Georges Wellers (1983).

1,250,000 persons or so
of whom 1,000,000 Jews killed and more than 250,000 non-Jews dead, according to the historian Raul Hilberg.

1,100,000 to 1,500,000 persons
according to the historians Yisrael Gutman, Michael Berenbaum and Franciszek Piper (1994).

1,000,000 persons
according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1989) and the Dictionnaire des noms propres published by Hachette (1992).

800,000 to 900,000 persons
according to the historian Gerald Reitlinger (1953).

775,000 to 800,000 persons
according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1993), of whom 630,000 were gassed Jews.

630,000 to 710,000 persons
according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1994), of whom from 470,000 to 550,000 were gassed Jews.

Please note that although in his "spontaneous" confession (with the help of "alcohol and the whip", as he himself put it) camp Commandant Rudolf Hoess, the so-called "proud technician", claimed 3.000.000, very few apparently take notice or believe him...

And we therefore reach the last generation of figures (no pun intended) with Jean-Claude Pressac who pointed out a figure of 775.000 in 1993. However, he lowered the total number to 630.000 victims -- only "470.000 to 550.000" of which Jews -- in 1994.

Of course, as soon as 08.01.1948, Welt im Film (British newsreel, nbr. 137) was indicating a figure of 300.000, but more recently it was revealed that the mortuary books (Sterbebücher) which had been kept during the war by the Auschwitz camp authorities exist at least from 27.07.1941 to 31.12.1943.

Since the camp was opened in 20.05.1940 and evacuated in 18.01.1945, that period represents a little more than half the duration of the camp's existence under German authority. The books, as released after more than 40 years, thanks in part to the Zundel trials of 1985 and 1988, appear to include approximately 69,000 names.

Also consider the International Red Cross archives at Arolsen, always closed to revisionists.
Can the archives of an organisation like the IRC be trusted, since neither individual "Holocaust scholars" nor the media appear to remotely know what they are talking about? Here is the figure then (17.08.1994):
-- International Red Cross at Arolsen: 66.206
Dept. of Holocaust investigations (Ref. nbr: 10824).
Welcome, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Introduction - New Member

Postby Oscar Grouch » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:28 pm)

Hi Borjastick.

I think I know the ‘encyclopedia’ website you got the ‘Those sent to the gas chambers were not tattooed …’ from, Borjastick. My point was that the so-called executions weren’t recorded because they didn’t exist and the Germans recorded everything in minute detail. The Churchill quote is from a long series of quotes I found, if I remember rightly it might have been from ihr.

Greetings Hannover.

Re: ‘En masse.’ There is photographic evidence of mass shootings taking place in the East.

Briefly: At the beginning of the war the Germans could no longer send the Jews to Palestine and hence the Wansee Conference of the ‘Final Solution’, which has been changed into, how shall we kill them. The ‘Final Solution’ was to send the Jews East and having won in Russia, the Russians who were undesirables and the Jews were to be forced over the Urals into central Asia. As the Germans advanced the Jews followed, but there was nowhere to put the hundreds of thousands and so many were executed on arrival, especially in the Baltic States. Eventually as things didn’t work out ghettos were built and the Jews were used as slave labour. That’s what places like Auschwitz were, huge industrial slave labour camps.

As the tide turned and the Russians moved west the camps moved ahead of them and that’s where the overcrowding and killer diseases that swept through the camps at the war’s end came from, which were a Godsend to provide the six million genocide myth. The myth is now dying despite the efforts of survivors of survivors to keep it going and get a share of the money pot.

Image


The holocaust became a successful well paid industry, which suited everyone. The International financiers could carry on business as normal, Israel made tens of millions from it, Hollywood boomed and the stories of escapes from crematoriums and finding love at electrified fences sold millions of paperback copies. Historians like David Irving helped, yet what really killed the holocaust myth as it did many others was the Internet. Many will already have seen Wiseman’s epic six hour documentary, ‘The Greatest Story Never Told’, but it’s always good to refer to it again.

https://vimeo.com/197658569

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Re: Introduction - New Member

Postby Hannover » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:48 pm)

Oscar Groucho said:
There is photographic evidence of mass shootings taking place in the East.

Nothing personal, but no there's not. If you think you have them then start a thread with & about them.

Would they be anything like these fakes?

'Babi Yar / Trial for 3 Alleged members of Firing Squads? / Fake Pictures & more'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11869

Image

and:
'Jewish Virtual Library's laughable Babi Yar "aftermath" photo is 'proof'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12147&p=90448&hilit=hannover+fake#p90448

And we would also like to see the claimed immense number of corpses via shootings that are claimed to be in known locations.

- Hannover

No human remains of millions in allegedly known locations, no 'holocaust'.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Introduction - New Member

Postby flimflam » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:33 pm)

Oscar Grouch wrote:The figures at Auschwitz magically drop from four million to one and a half million after Polish independence enabled scientific inquiry


No, the one and a half million figure is pure fantasy as was the four million. The documents are not complete but they record about 60,000 deaths. Extrapolating gives a figure of 100,000 to 150,000 for the entire war all causes. I'll refer you to ....

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-offic ... lion#!n=12

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Re: Introduction - New Member

Postby Moderator » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:21 am)

OK, Oscar Grouch has said hello with a few of his thoughts. Lovely.
So now let's break the numerous points he brought up into separate threads if you wish to continue to discuss them.
Oscar, that means you too.
Reminder, per our guidelines it's one 'h' topic per thread.
There are existing threads on his points, but no worries, start new ones if you like.
I could see this coming from the get-go of this thread,
Thanks, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Introduction - New Member

Postby borjastick » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:48 am)

Well let's keep this thread for proof of mass shootings as claimed. Sure there were some shootings, which as Hannover says were totally legal and appropriate for the time. There are some reports of brutality and reprisals etc of course. That happens in war. Not very pleasant but it happened.

However ask yourself one question. How many different films of mass shootings have you seen on any holocaust film on tv? The answer is usually one. One only. It's the one where a truck pulls up and out jump about 15 men, one of whom gives a brief look to the camera before they sprint to a sandy trench and are shot. If this was so well documented why is that the only film of it all?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician


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