Movement of Jewish Populations 1933 -1945

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RouterAl
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Movement of Jewish Populations 1933 -1945

Postby RouterAl » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:35 am)

Has there been a definitive analysis of the movement of Jewish populations in Europe from 1933 to 1945. This would include movements into Palestine, the Soviet Union and the Balkans. There are always newspaper and TV reports even today of relatives “crying crocodile tears” that their relative who sent to some camp or other and they were never seen again, so there for they must be dead.
In my case I went to my primary school (British school system age 5 to 11) over 60 years ago, and since then I have never seen any of the 30 odd children who I was in the same class with for 6 years, so can I assume they are all dead?. Of course not, some may indeed be dead but the rest have simply moved away and I no longer have any contact with them, I’m sure that with some effort I could find some or all of them if I tried.

The first book that peaked my interest on this subject was the full translation of Solzhenitsyn's 200 years together, in chapter 21 he writes the following

"Yet many were saved from death by evacuation in 1941 and 1942. Various Jewish wartime and postwar sources do not doubt the dynamism of this evcuation. For example, in The Jewish World, a book written in 1944, one can read: “The Soviet authorities were fully aware that the Jews were the most endangered part of the population, and despite the acute military needs in transport, thousands of trains were provided for their evacuation. … In many cities … Jews were evacuated first”, although the author believes that the statement of the Jewish writer David Bergelson that “approximately 80% of Jews were successfully evacuated” is an exaggeration. "
"Thus, within the new borders of the USSR, by the most optimistic assessments, approximately 2,226,000 Jews (2,000,000 Eastern, 226,000 Western Jews) escaped the German occupation and 2,739,000 Jews (1,080,000 Easterners and 1,659,000 Westerners) remained in the occupied territories."


So it seems that the Soviets were busy moving large numbers of Jews out of post Kristallnacht harms way and expending significant resources to do so.

The second book is The Forced War by David L Hoggan a book detailing the British and American and Polish determination to force the Germans into another war. It contained the following paragraph which contained details I had never seen before

The Polish decree and its repercussions produced an important impact on the current treatment of the Jews in Germany. Large numbers of Jews had been coming to Berlin from other areas after the Anschluss between Germany and Austria. The Anschluss increased the German-Jewish population by nearly 200,000, or more than the total number of Jews who had departed from Germany. American Ambassador Hugh Wilson reported on June 22, 1938, that an alleged 3,000 new Jews had entered Berlin during the past month, and on the week-end of June 18th there had been demonstrations against Jewish stores in Berlin for the first time since 1933. The German Government in October 1938 was preparing a series of measures to restrict the participation of Jews in the legal profession, and it was evident that there might be other measures designed to restrict Jewish activities. There was obviously considerable disagreement among the German leaders about what, if anything, should be done, but the repercussions of the Polish passport crisis played into the hands of the more radical group, headed by German Minister of Propaganda and Enlightenment, Joseph Goebbels.

The book details also that the Poles were determinedly trying to export their Jewish population also

Considerable attention was given to the problem of encouraging Jewish emigration from Germany in the years from 1933 to 1938, but far more Jews departed from Poland than from Germany during these years. An average 100,000 Jews were emigrating from Poland each year compared to 25-28,000 Jews leaving Germany annually. From September 1933 to November 1938 a special economic agreement (Havarah agreement) enabled German Jews to transfer their assets to Palestine, and the German authorities were far more liberal in this respect than Poland. There were also special arrangements for wealthy Jews in Germany to contribute to the emigration of others by capital transfers to various places. 170,000 Jews had left Germany by November 9, 1938, compared to approximately 575,000 who had departed from Poland during the same years.

Certainly the Jews moving into the soviet sphere of influence would be “lost” to their relatives until the fall of the wall, some 45 years after the end of the war, during which time many of the displaced populations would have died in the normal course of events and been lost to their relatives. The Jews who reportedly left Austria for Germany would also be “lost” to their relatives and the reported post war absence of Jews in Poland could be in significant part to them having been removed by the Poles before the war. These Jewish populations have traditionally been generally more mobile than regular populations, when ever things get unpleasant for them they quickly move from town to town country to country. So my question is, has there been any study of Jewish movements during this period, even a single individual’s movement.

You can obtain a copy at
https://archive.org/details/TheForcedWar

http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-conte ... rypted.pdf

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Hektor
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Re: Movement of Jewish Populations 1933 -1945

Postby Hektor » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:01 am)

There have been studies made even during the war:
https://archive.org/details/Displacemen ... pe/page/n3
And shortly afterwards:
https://archive.org/details/EuropeOnTheMove/page/n5

cold beer
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Re: Movement of Jewish Populations 1933 -1945

Postby cold beer » 2 months 1 week ago (Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:46 am)

RouterAl wrote:"Thus, within the new borders of the USSR, by the most optimistic assessments, approximately 2,226,000 Jews (2,000,000 Eastern, 226,000 Western Jews) escaped the German occupation and 2,739,000 Jews (1,080,000 Easterners and 1,659,000 Westerners) remained in the occupied territories."

Correct me if I'm wrong.
What we have with this is that the vast majority of Jews in Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were never evacuated.
Bear in mind that there were approximately 3 million Jews in Poland alone.
If I were to say 95% of jews in these countries were unable to evacuate, how powerful an argument is that for revisionists?
Last edited by cold beer on Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Hannover
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Re: Movement of Jewish Populations 1933 -1945

Postby Hannover » 2 months 1 week ago (Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:42 am)

RouterAI said:
So it seems that the Soviets were busy moving large numbers of Jews out of post Kristallnacht harms way and expending significant resources to do so.
I'm not buying the 'out of harms way' excuse.The Soviets really wanted laborers for their factories in anticipation of their planned assault on Germany, and later as so many of their men were in the Red Army.

cold beer:
Correct me if I'm wrong.
What we have with this is that the vast majority of Jews in Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were never evacuated.
Bear in mind that there were approximately 3 million Jews in Poland alone.
If I were to say 95% of jews in these countries were unable to evacuate, how powerful an argument is that for revisionists?

Incorrect. That does not stand up to reports of the period, many of which were Jew sources.

WJC's Stephen Wise said 1,250,000 - 1,500,000 Polish Jews homeless in Europe, outside of Poland, & alive after WWII
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191

Jews evacuated to USSR during war
https://archive.is/jA9iI
and:
more Jews evacuated to USSR during war
https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/ ... r-refugees
exc.:
"Since the outbreak of the war hundreds of thousands of Jews from Poland, Rumania and the Baltic countries have been given shelter in the U.S.S.R., and many of them were permitted to pass through Russia en route to the United States and to Palestine."

- Hannover

No alleged immense human remains to be seen in alleged known locations, no 'holocaust'.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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borjastick
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Re: Movement of Jewish Populations 1933 -1945

Postby borjastick » 2 months 1 week ago (Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:09 am)

It's all part of the numbers game which one could spend a whole lifetime researching and debating. It's an impossible conundrum but as Hannover says the contemporary and immediate post war analysis was that up to 2m++ jews were re-located out of sensitive areas by Russian authorities and who could then be utilised in their war effort. The argument that not enough were 'removed' by Russia and thus they were directly in line for a holocausting is spurious.

But putting the abacus down for a moment the answer is always best arrived at by looking at the evidence. If the claims of millions of jews deliberately put to death had any weight at all the evidence would be piled high and shoved in our faces at every opportunity over the past 70 years. It hasn't been and that says it all...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician


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