Lithuania: Ground-penetrating radar in Kaunas finds mass grave, supposedly jews killed by Nazis

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Lamprecht
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Lithuania: Ground-penetrating radar in Kaunas finds mass grave, supposedly jews killed by Nazis

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 1 week ago (Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:27 pm)

Someone sent me this link, which claims the mass grave at Kaunas proves a nazi extermination of jews:


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 091802.htm
Ground-penetrating radar reveals potential mass grave sites from the Holocaust

Date: November 5, 2018
Source: Geological Society of America
Summary: Researchers recently used ground penetrating radar to locate an unmarked, potential mass grave site in Lithuania, according to a new study. The work aims to amass evidence that points to the likely locations of mass graves from the Holocaust and, in time, award federal distinction to the areas in the form of memorials.

"The larger context," says physical geographer Harry Jol from the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, "is that, within the holocaust in Lithuania, every small and large town has a mass gravesite."

Though many potential mass grave and execution sites are peppered throughout Lithuania, only eyewitness accounts, with some accounts conflicting, are the first lines of evidence to guide researchers to approximate locations. In some areas, roughly 5-10 and upwards to 2,000 individuals lie buried, while other locations have upwards of ten times that number.

By using ground-penetrating radar, researchers like Jol can narrow the search by peering below the surface and searching for signs that indicate human-caused disturbances. Jol and his colleagues have located mass grave and execution sites in other areas throughout Lithuania and Israel, though this particular study pertains to the Rokiškis region.

"We're basically able to slice into the ground the same way the oil and gas industry does and build a three-dimensional model of the near subsurface," Jol says, explaining that breaks in the subsurface, as well as rectangular or circular patterns, can be interpreted as digging. "When those breaks occur, and with some of the patterns we see, that indicates that something has cut through those glacial-fluvial sediments."

Indeed, radar images revealed such signs in the Rokiškis region, indicating a potential grave site roughly two meters below the surface. Under Jewish burial traditions, which detail practices for honoring the dead, the remains of Jewish persons, once buried, must not be disturbed.



The study seems to be here: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8441590

Holocaust Archaeology: Using Ground Penetrating Radar to Locate a Jewish Mass Grave in Kaunas, Lithuania

A ground penetrating radar (GPR) survey at Fort VII in Kaunas, Lithuania has aided in locating a Jewish mass grave from the Holocaust. The discovery of human remains near the eastern wall of Fort VII prompted the Lithuanian government and Jewish Community to invite an international team of students, archaeologists and geophysicists to conduct GPR and electrical resistivity tomography (ERT) surveys to determine the graves definite existence and size in July of 2017. Using 225 and 500 MHz antenna with a respective step size of 0.1m and 0.02m, two grids measuring 16m × 8m and 12m × 7m with lines spaced every quarter meter were collected on the suspected location of the mass grave. GPR datasets were processed using the GFP_Edit and EKKO_Project programs. Results showed the existence of a pit shaped feature measuring 10m × 8m at a depth of 0.2m to 0.8m in both of the grids. Analogous dimensions of the feature within the two collected grids coupled with historic data surrounding the grave's location and size, preliminary GPR investigation of the site is highly encouraging in determining the grave's parameters. This data can then be used to create a perimeter around the suspected location of the mass grave to ensure the grave will not be disturbed again in the future.
...
Approximately 5,000 to 7,000 Jewish men, women and children were detained and marched to the Fort on June 22, 1941 when the Nazis invaded the city [3]. The Jews were then taken to a location near the eastern wall of the Fort, where they were shot and buried within a mass grave [3].
VIEW FULL TEXT: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1109/ICGPR.2018.8441590

Oddly enough, that paper's citation of what happened to these jews makes no sense. Citation #3 refers to this study: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ca ... graphy.pdf
Which is about an old cemetery in Ghana, which is in West Africa... :?


Regardless of this obvious mistake, apparently graves have been located using GPR. Do we know this was not caused by the USSR? Perhaps it was a Nazi execution of partisans?

We know some jews were transferred to camps from Kaunas. From Jurgen Graf's "The Giant with Feet of Clay" chapter 5:

Code: Select all

Study of the sources for concentration camp Stutthof reveals the fol-
lowing facts:
Between the 12th July and the 14th October 1944 10,458 Jews were
transferred to Stutthof from Kaunas (Lithuania) and 14,585 Jews were
transferred there from Riga (Latvia); here are the dates and the loading of
the respective transports.69
DATE
ORIGIN
NUMBER TRANSFERED
12.7.
Kaunas
282
13.7.
Kaunas
3,098
13.7.
Kaunas
233
16.7.
Kaunas
1,172
17.7.
Kaunas
1,208
19.7.
Kaunas
1,097
19.7.
Kaunas
1,072
25.7.
Kaunas
182
25.7.
Kaunas
1,321
4.8.
Kaunas
793
9.8.
Riga
6,382
9.8.
Riga
450
23.8.
Riga
2,079
23.8.
Riga
2,329
1.10.
Riga
3,155
14.10. Riga
190
TOTAL:
25,043
From page 53 (19th page of the PDF) http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/Giant/Chapter5.pdf

What I don't understand is that according to this study, Jews were rounded up and executed in June 1941 by the Nazis in Kaunas, yet we have records of thousands of jews being deported to Stutthof from Kaunas a few years later???

Wikipedia describes a "June Uprising" by Lithuanians in 1941, were the Nazis even in Kaunas on June 22, 1941??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Upri ... #In_Kaunas
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Lithuania: Ground-penetrating radar in Kaunas finds mass grave, supposedly jews killed by Nazis

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 1 week ago (Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:57 pm)

I just found this quote... According to this Jewish writer, it was Lithuanian anti-communists who massacred Jews in Kaunas, and the Nazis only entered the city after the fact...

It is a fact that more than half of the membership of the tiny pre-Soviet Lithuanian Communist Party, about eight hundred people, were Jews. It is also a fact that these Jewish Communists in 1940 and 1941 played prominent roles in the Soviet occupation administration of Lithuania. The most notorious interrogators of the Lithuanian branch of the Soviet security police, the NKVD, were Lithuanian Jewish Communists, and many such Jewish Communists manned the NKVD detachments, which randomly arrested and deported to Siberia the alleged class enemies and other so-called "anti-Soviet elements" of Lithuania.

... No wonder then that as soon as the Lithuanians got rid of the Soviets (this they did in a national uprising on the first day of the Soviet-German war [June 22, 1941], taking control of the country long before the German troops were able to occupy it), a series of wild Jewish pogroms broke out in the country, the first Jewish pogroms on Lithuanian soil in the whole 600-year-old history of Lithuanian-Jewish cohabitation. It is believed that in Kaunas alone 3,800 Jews were killed during these pogroms. Along with these spontaneous acts of violence the Lithuanian rebel troops started indiscriminately arresting Jews for their "collaboration with the Soviets" in a more organized but not less random fashion. In Kaunas, the thus-arrested alleged Jewish collaborators of the Soviets were assembled in a huge garage and cruelly massacred there the next day. My father was one of the victims of that Lietukis garage massacre. The German troops marched into Kaunas on the day of this massacre only to witness the last instants of that bloody orgy.

... As a Jew, I must reject the assumption that we Jews forever were just the faultless and powerless victims of other peoples' abuse and injustices, and must admit our own faults, such as, for example: our certain insensitivity to some of the grave problems facing our gentile landsmen; our self-centeredness that only too often urged some of us to seek our particular goals without giving much consideration to how the achievement of these goals would affect the interests of others; the frivolousness that more than once led quite a number of us to assume that what is good for Jews must be even better for the gentiles. Too many of us, led by such considerations, were more than ready to engage ourselves thoughtlessly in all kinds of subversive and revolutionary activities threatening the integrity and even survival of our host countries. For this we have to confess our guilt.

- From an essay by Aleksandras Shtromas, a professor of political science at Hillsdale College (Michigan) who was interned during the Second World War in the Kaunas (Lithuania) ghetto. Published in The World & I (Washington, DC), February 1992, pp. 572, 577.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Lithuania: Ground-penetrating radar in Kaunas finds mass grave, supposedly jews killed by Nazis

Postby Sasquatch » 2 months 1 week ago (Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:29 pm)

So this is a case of despite it being historically recorded of how these people met their fate those facts will just be ignored?

So if one lived in a country with Holocaust denial laws would one be prosecuted for disputing this report?

I once visited a lot of the historical sites (from all eras, not just WWII) in Lithuania and although still a believer in the Holocaust at the time I asked couple of questions when at the Ponary "massacre" site that didn't exactly endear me to our tour guide.

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Re: Lithuania: Ground-penetrating radar in Kaunas finds mass grave, supposedly jews killed by Nazis

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 1 week ago (Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:36 pm)

Sasquatch wrote:So this is a case of despite it being historically recorded of how these people met their fate those facts will just be ignored?

So if one lived in a country with Holocaust denial laws would one be prosecuted for disputing this report?

I once visited a lot of the historical sites (from all eras, not just WWII) in Lithuania and although still a believer in the Holocaust at the time I asked couple of questions when at the Ponary "massacre" site that didn't exactly endear me to our tour guide.

Well, allegedly there was another massacre of Jews at Kaunas, after the "June 22, 1941" massacre:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaunas_ma ... r_29,_1941

The study itself is sloppy. Like I pointed out, and you can see for yourself, the citation in the study doesn't even refer to a study that has anything at all to do with the nazis.

The graves reported in the study are most likely there, but I see no reason to believe they are all jews who were killed by the nazis solely for their jewishness. As for the laws, I'd say you possibly wouldn't be arrested for claiming it was Lithuanians who caused this mass grave (if citing that jewish testimony) but to claim the "final solution" was not a systematic extermination of jews would be a crime. I'm American though, so I don't worry about being persecuted for "holocaust denial"

Mottogno's book on the Einsatzgruppen has chapters on Kaunas:

PDF: https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=39

TXT version: https://archive.org/stream/Einsatzgrupp ... o_djvu.txt

Search for "Kaunas" and you will find many mentions of it. An excerpt:
On 18 August 1941, at Fort IV, Kaunas, “711 Jewish intellectuals from the
ghetto [were shot] in reprisal for an act of sabotage”; 175 the execution on 26 Sep¬
tember of 1,608 Jews, also in Fort IV, concerned “sick persons and persons sus¬
pected of carrying epidemics” (p. 113); the execution on 4 October of 1,845 Jews
at Fort IX was a “punishment operation for shooting at a German policeman in
the ghetto” (p. 113a); the execution of 9,200 Jews carried out at the same location
on 29 October was a “cleansing of the ghetto of superfluous Jews” (ibid.). On 2
September, the killing at Vilnius of 3,700 Jews was justified as a “special action,
because Jews had shot at German soldiers” (ibid.).


All in all, it seems a lot more complicated than "nazis tried to exterminate every jew they could get their hands on"
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Lithuania: Ground-penetrating radar in Kaunas finds mass grave, supposedly jews killed by Nazis

Postby Hannover » 2 months 1 week ago (Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:15 pm)

Complete BS.
From article:
Indeed, radar images revealed such signs in the Rokiškis region, indicating a potential grave site roughly two meters below the surface. Under Jewish burial traditions, which detail practices for honoring the dead, the remains of Jewish persons, once buried, must not be disturbed.

There are many things which could cause such GPR anomalies: dense clay, variations in moisture, wood, rocks, dead animals, etc.
Such anomalies only serve as a starting point in identifying places to excavate.
- Note that there aren't any GPR images shown.
- And they are obviously afraid to actually excavate, verify, identify, DNA test any alleged human remains.
I have no problem in saying that there are no Jew remains there, period.

- We're talking about an alleged immense crime supposedly committed here. Such alleged crimes have crime scene standards of procedure,
The "Holocau$t Industry" in court:
'Please your honor, there really are remains of millions upon millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, but, but, well, umm, we can't show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we're Zionists.'

As for the mention Ponary, have a laugh and see this:
Industry's Andrew Mathis & Roberto Muehlenkamp claim patch of dirt holds remains of 100,000 at Ponar, Lithuania
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11345
Sandbox size Ponary site supposedly holds remains of 100,000 people : 70,000 Jews & 30,000 'others', which cannot be shown:
Image
see link for more

"Not to be disturbed" is a complete lie.
See where they do in fact disturb alleged Jews:
First UK Burial for Holocaust Victims - No Autopsy
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12231
and:
The Big Excuse: 'excavation & exhumation of Jews forbidden' debunked

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6817
and:
"Jewish Burial Law" as excuse
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8997

- Hannover

Only lies require censorship, banning of free speech.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Lithuania: Ground-penetrating radar in Kaunas finds mass grave, supposedly jews killed by Nazis

Postby Breker » 2 months 1 week ago (Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:59 pm)

Mr. Lamprecht states:
Search for "Kaunas" and you will find many mentions of it. An excerpt:
On 18 August 1941, at Fort IV, Kaunas, “711 Jewish intellectuals from the
ghetto [were shot] in reprisal for an act of sabotage”; 175 the execution on 26 Sep¬
tember of 1,608 Jews, also in Fort IV, concerned “sick persons and persons sus¬
pected of carrying epidemics” (p. 113); the execution on 4 October of 1,845 Jews
at Fort IX was a “punishment operation for shooting at a German policeman in
the ghetto” (p. 113a); the execution of 9,200 Jews carried out at the same location
on 29 October was a “cleansing of the ghetto of superfluous Jews” (ibid.). On 2
September, the killing at Vilnius of 3,700 Jews was justified as a “special action,
because Jews had shot at German soldiers” (ibid.).


All in all, it seems a lot more complicated than "nazis tried to exterminate every jew they could get their hands on"

But Mr. Mattogno makes it clear that Jaeger is unreliable and contradicted in many ways.
Jaeger states that he visited the allegedly known execution sites, but of course there are no bodily remains at those sites to be inspected.
So even those numbers appear quite dodgy at best, regardless of the said reasons for their executions.
Rather like the sorry "gas chambers", something is most fishy here with this "Holocaust" - einsatzgruppen business, to no one's surprise.
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.


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