The Influence of Israeli Atrocities on Holocaust Denial

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Hegwood
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The Influence of Israeli Atrocities on Holocaust Denial

Postby Hegwood » 6 months 1 week ago (Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:39 pm)

I recently brought up the topic of the holohoax to a group of acquaintances. Introducing them to holocaust denial/revisionism did not go over well but it did not go over as bad as I feared it might either. That experience however is going to be covered in another post.

This post is about whether knowing the truth about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict influences holocaust denial/revisionism, at least initially.

In considering what approach I should take in addressing the group on the holocaust, I came to the realization that my knowledge of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and sympathy for Palestinian's fight for their basic human rights conditioned me to be more receptive to holocaust revisionist arguments than I otherwise would have been.

After all, in retrospect, knowing about the lies and atrocities, even massacres, used by Jews to create and justify a Jewish State I should have seen a huge red flag. I should have ask myself fifty years ago "what else are these people lying about?". Should I believe anything they say? Unfortunately that didn't happen, but I'm sure it did ultimately influence me.

I'm sure that all who make intelligent posts to this forum have long been aware of the truth regarding the creation of Israel. Do you feel that that knowledge in any way influenced your current views on the holohoax, particularly during initial exposure to the truth?


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Re: The Influence of Israeli Atrocities on Holocaust Denial

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 1 week ago (Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:13 pm)

This post is about whether knowing the truth about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict influences holocaust denial/revisionism, at least initially.


It is important the way you word it. Some people seem to get the impression that "Holocaust Denial" is solely a trick just to make people hate jews, or to justify some "nazi" revolution where all the jews get shoved into ovens. Certainly, that is not the case. It does help to highlight exactly what Holocaust "deniers" DO NOT deny. It is helpful to say "The Nazis did violate human rights, and jews did suffer immensely, but certain things like gas chambers or 6 million is an exaggeration.... also the 'Final Solution' was resettlement/deportation based on ethnicity [something most people would say is still a human rights violation]..." Check the following graphics for a general idea.

Image

Image

There are a lot of things that will allow someone to be more receptive to such ideas, a general "non-conformist" nature is probably the strongest one, or a more thorough understanding of history. Of course, an "Israel is our greatest ally" zionist will probably be less likely to want to believe it. In reality, the fact that Israelis mistreat Palestinians, in no way, implies that Hitler did not gas the Jews. I think a bigger factor in this is not simply knowing that extremist Jews commit atrocities (virtually all human societies have committed atrocities of some kind, and it is always just a minority of people that do them) but rather the total pro-Israel media bias, which also contributes to Zionist-domination of the US government, and a cover-up of these Israeli atrocities by both sides of the media. Although the conservative media is ridiculously pro-Israel, the leftist media simply is not sufficiently critical of them. If it was, say, South African Whites mistreating blacks the way Israelis mistreat Palestinians, you would hear about it endlessly!

Check out this video by Vincent James of The Red Elephants from just a couple days ago on CPAC:


He shows that it was totally Zionist, and around the 12 minute mark, there were a bunch of examples of "Build Israel Great Again" red MAGA-style hats that all sorts of people were wearing... And, right now, there is a totally coordinated and unanimous attack by the controlled media on this Ilhan Omar congresswoman for criticizing AIPAC, something that never happened when she tweeted against the Covington Catholic kids, or for gun control (violating 2nd amendment).


Plus, we must understand that some people simply CAN NOT accept that the "Holocaust" was totally exaggerated, no matter what facts you provide... They are just incapable of assessing true information because of deep-seated biases. It's like a religion to them, they just trust what they perceive to be the authority and aren't really interested in doing the research themselves. In fact, they have strong psychological tendencies to not try to think hard about such "Taboo" topics, for deep-seated fear of ostracism. Look into the subject "Groupthink". Some people don't want to think for themselves, and will just have mental blocks preventing them from thinking any "Politically incorrect" thoughts. For more information on this, I suggest checking out the youtube videos of KGB defector "Yuri Bezmenov" :)



According to Sociology professor Dr Robert Hepp:
"Occasional experiments that I have conducted in my seminars convince me that 'Auschwitz' is ethnologically speaking one of the few taboo topics that our 'taboo free society' still preserves. While they did not react at all to other stimulants, 'enlightened' central European students who refused to accept any taboos at all, would react to a confrontation with 'revisionist' [denial] texts' about the gas chambers at Auschwitz in just as 'elementary' a way (including the comparable physiological symptoms) as members of primitive Polynesian tribes would react to an infringement of one of their taboos. The students were literally beside themselves and were neither prepared nor capable of soberly discussing the presented theses. For the sociologist this is a very important point because a society's taboos reveal what it holds sacred. Taboos also reveal what the community fears. Sometimes fear of perceived danger takes on the form of ticks and phobias that remind us of obsessive neurotics. However, it cannot be denied that numerous taboos have a function that preserves individuals from danger, and even where taboos are a part of an individual's make-up, it is difficult to ascertain if the fear of the one rests on the power of the other, or vice versa."
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: The Influence of Israeli Atrocities on Holocaust Denial

Postby Hegwood » 6 months 1 week ago (Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:33 pm)

Thanks for the reply, albeit a rather lengthy one to what I intended as a simple question. Do you think Israel/Jewish behavior toward the Palestinians influenced you willingness to accept or even consider denial/revisionist arguments?

Herbert Spencer's comment is not universal. Contemptible behavior can be investigated fairly.

Also, I do not agree with all parts of your believer/revisionist comparison - shall we call your position "denial lite". It is however a giant step in the right direction.

It is for certain Jews were denied their rights. They were stripped of their citizenship. There are many degrees of persecution, so being persecuted is being rather vague. Concentration camps were for the most part conscripted labor camps. Conscripted labor is not "slave labor". They were probably far less likely to be killed than conscripted soldiers to which most German men were subjected. Until researchers are allowed access to records and are allowed to freely publish their findings we don't really know the truth about life of in National Socialist Germany.

I haven't seen convincing evidence that a single individual was ever killed by the National Socialist government simple because he or she was a Jew. That in my opinion and it is not holocaust revisionism it is holocaust denial.

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Re: The Influence of Israeli Atrocities on Holocaust Denial

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 1 week ago (Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:12 pm)

Also, I do not agree with all parts of your believer/revisionist comparison - shall we call your position "denial lite". It is however a giant step in the right direction.
What part specifically do you disagree with? It doesn't seem to be "denial lite" to me

It is for certain Jews were denied their rights. They were stripped of their citizenship. There are many degrees of persecution, so being persecuted is being rather vague. Concentration camps were for the most part conscripted labor camps. Conscripted labor is not "slave labor". They were probably far less likely to be killed than conscripted soldiers to which most German men were subjected.

Well the term "slave labor" was not used in the graphics, or in my post.

The 2nd table is based on this article by Germar Rudolf: http://germarrudolf.com/en/germars-view ... visionism/

It is simply to explain the positions of revisionists or "deniers". It was legal by international law, during wartime for partisans to be executed. Undoubtedly, many communist subversives were jews. Some jews were executed for committing crimes, that still counts as "Jews being killed" even if the action itself is not criminal or necessarily contemptible.

I haven't seen convincing evidence that a single individual was ever killed by the National Socialist government simple because he or she was a Jew. That in my opinion and it is not holocaust revisionism it is holocaust denial.
Sure, but the reality is, for one reason or another, some jews were executed, and many of them perished. Nowhere near 6 million of course.

To reiterate, I do not think that the behavior of Jews to Palestinians had any significant effect on my ability to consider revisionist arguments, but the total pro-Israel (or, rather, pro-jewish) bias in the mass media, academia, and the government gave me reason to suspect that I should not simply accept the "status quo" on this particular subject. :)
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: The Influence of Israeli Atrocities on Holocaust Denial

Postby Hegwood » 6 months 1 week ago (Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:05 pm)

I'm not trying to argue with you. I was recently irritated by someone using the term "slave labor". It was on my mind.

I am still a holocaust denier and will leave it at that.

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Re: The Influence of Israeli Atrocities on Holocaust Denial

Postby Breker » 6 months 1 week ago (Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:40 pm)

An interesting question in the OP by Hegwood.
This post is about whether knowing the truth about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict influences holocaust denial/revisionism, at least initially.

Generally, yes.
Knowing that Jews have brazenly lied about their cruel and murderous treatment of Palestinians does open the door and encourages the uninitiated to investigate and ultimately accept what Revisionists have already proven.
People instinctively know that proven liars tend to lie big and lie often.
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: The Influence of Israeli Atrocities on Holocaust Denial

Postby borjastick » 6 months 1 week ago (Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:19 am)

What came first, the chicken or the egg??

I think perhaps Hegwood has got it the wrong way around though it doesn't really matter, probably. I think people(revisionists) dislike israel because they know the truth about jewish lies re the holocaust.

I am not sure why Lamprecht would say the gas chambers and 6m dead in the holocaust are an exaggeration when clearly they are a pure lie, an invention.

My situation is different a little bit at least. I have discussed this here before. I was very aware of israel and Palestine and the 'creation' of the state of israel from an early age because my dear old dad served in the British army in Egypt (Alexandria then Suez) before moving up into Palestine between about January 1946 and the end of 1947. He was for some time based in the port town of Netanya and saw many hundreds of ships arriving from europe each day disgorging their jewish hoards.

I didn't really have much of an opinion about israel until I learned the truth of the holocaust and since then that shitty little country has never been far from my thoughts.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician


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