At the end of September 1943, the party chancellery invited all Reichsleiters and Gauleiters, the head of the Hitler Youth Artur Axmann and Reich ministers Albert Speer and Alfred Rosenberg to a conference. It began on 6 October at 9 o'clock in the morning with Speer's reports, his speakers, and four big industries for armament production. Talks from Karl Dönitz and Erhard Milch followed. Himmler held his speech from 17:30 to 19:00.
This comes from a German translation of Sereny's Albert Speer: His Battle with Truth
As I cannot find a copy of this, I dug out my copy of Inside the Third Reich: The Memoirs of” Albert Speer
to try and confirm any details. Of note to this thread, I cannot find a single passage in the English translation that deals with Himmler's October 6 speech, let alone the time of it. Additionally, there is nothing relating to Himmler's extermination plans or the holocaust.
While I think Speer would have made the choice of omitting all mention of the above to present himself favourably – it is interesting. One would think he would have something to say about such a significant speech. Of course, he maintains he was never there, but this has been debunked by all and Sundry. (He also initiated Pogroms.)
[The first one cannot be discussed as wikipedia does not provide a date.]
On 16 December 1943
26 January 1944
On May 5, 1944
May 24, 1944
On June 21, 1944:
“It was the most terrible task and the most terrible order which could have been given to an organisation: the order to solve the Jewish question. In this circle, I may say it frankly with a few sentences. It is good that we had the severity to exterminate the Jews in our domain.”
Firstly, let me begin by saying that (besides copying from wikipedia) it is very poor form to post quotes that come from just a single book to advance a case. (Smith, Peterson: Heinrich Himmler
.) As shown in my first post, the same text or quote can be handled a myriad ways by differing authors, even if their end goal is the same.
Luckily, I have a copy of Himmler
by Longerich to fill in the pieces that will hopefully provide a source for the quotes.
Longerich presents the June 21, 1944 speech as being an innocent one to generals and suggests no mention of such incriminating lines. (NS 19/4014 Bundesarchiv Berlin.) However, digging further shows wikipedia has got the date wrong. The date of a potentially incriminating speech was made the year before. (June 21, 1943.) However, nothing like what wikipedia claims actually was said is noted. While Longerich does not provide a transcript or reference of there being one, he does give us an order that came from from what was discussed:
“Those ‘members of the Jewish ghetto not required’ were to be ‘evacuated to the east’, in other words, to be murdered” (Longerich, 667.)
This comes from a document numbered NO 2403. This is entirely different from what your source claims. Here Longerich makes implicit his beliefs that this means the murder of Jews, which tells an unthinking reader to treat it as such; but, as always, we have to consult the document for confirmation. The results may shock anyone new to the holocaust debate:
1. The Higher SS and Police Leader[ (Hoherer SS- und Polizeifuehrer) Ostland
2. Chief of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office (Chef des SS-Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamtes)
1) I order that all Jews still remaining in ghettos in the Ostland area be collected in concentration camps.
2) I prohibit the withdrawal of Jews from concentration camps for [outside] work from August 1, 1943.
3) A concentration camp is to be built near Riga to which will be transferred the entire manufacture of clothing and equipment now operated by the Wehrmacht outside. All private firms will be eliminated. The workshops are to be solely concentration camp workshops. The Chief of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office is requested to see to it that there will be no shortfall in the production required by the Wehrmacht as the result of this reorganization.
4) Inmates of the Jewish ghettos who are not required are to be evacuated to the East.
5) As many male Jews as possible are to be taken to the concentration camp in the oil-shale area for the mining of oil-shale.
6) The date set for the reorganization of the concentration camps is August 1, 1943.
signed H. Himmler.
Firstly, we can see Longerich COMPLETELY misrepresents the document to provide evidence of Himmler (let alone what your quote claims) as sending these poor men off to their deaths. If you read the above, it is very easy to see that the full text details they have a labour shortage and are confining Jews into concentration camps to solve this problem. This is clearly a huge problem at the time as Himmler is no longer outsourcing manufacture to private firms as a cost measure, instead passing production over to Jewish (effectively) slave labour. We can also see that Longerich is making a huge leap by suggesting “evacuated to the East” as meaning murdered. The document clearly states that they are being relocated to mine oil. It should also be noted that logical thinking would suggest that in a time of labour shortage the last thing Himmler would was to consider is liquidating anyone.
In short, Longerich has subverted Himmler's order to fit an extermination agenda.
This, however, is all too common in holocaust literature. What is especially frightening about this is Longerich isn't a nobody - this book would have sold tens of thousands and he works for the University of London!
Boots, I was going to address all of your quotes, but doing so would be not worth anyone's time. Peterson Smith, your source, is error prone and manipulates/invents text - more so than most. In trying to confirm the accuracy of your source I looked to a well respected source and found that he too shamefully lies regarding sources. Unless you can provide transcripts of these speeches with the text you have posted I would recommend not continuing to promote them.
Also, please provide an English transcript of the second Posen speech.
As far as I am aware one has never been made available to the public.
Lastly, please provide a source for the full recording of the first Posen speech.
As far as I am aware only the five minute version that was played at the Nuremberg trial is in existence. Working with what we've got at the moment, five minutes of a speech would be manageable to fake outright. A lengthier recording would pose more problems for potential manipulators.
If anyone wants to have a listen to the five minute Posen extract or have a go at studying it technically they can find it here: http://www.holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/
Edit: Here is a speech of Himmler addressing a university for comparison:
Who would have thought the weedy geezer would have a gravely, Alpha-male voice? Not me.