Models of Treblinka

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Atigun
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Models of Treblinka

Postby Atigun » 6 months 4 weeks ago (Sat May 11, 2019 6:54 am)

Yankel Wiernik gives the dimensions of the graves at Treblinka as being 10X25X50 meters or 12,500 cubic meters per grave and a total of five graves. That amounts to 62,500 cubic meters of soil excavated for the graves. The ARC, Y. Arad et al. claim that the Menck and Hambrock model B excavator was used to excavate the graves. The length of the boom of the model B was about 35 feet. With the clamshell bucket attachment, the excavator could build a stockpile of excavated material about 5 meters high. Photos of the model B confirm that the stockpiles are about 4 feet higher than the 12 foot high cab (called the "house", actually).

Since the angle of repose for wet sand is 45 degrees, that results in a stockpile about 1.7 kilometers long for the 62,500 cubic meters of excavated soil. That's about 17,000 square meters of stockpile plus the 6,250 square meters of graves is 23,250 square meters or about 5.7 acres.

The stockpiles of excavated material shown in Wiernik's and the other models is wildly inadequate to account for the amount of excavated material. That opens the question of whether or not Wiernik actually saw any mass graves. If he did, why didn't he present a more realistic model? Since there's no mention of trucks or trains hauling the excavated material away from the work site, it begs the question of how the M&H Mb excavator could have both excavated and stockpiled the ex from the mass graves. IMHO, that is pretty good evidence that nobody saw any mass graves at Treblinka.

I'm making some rather unrealistic assumptions about the volume of the alleged mass graves. The graves couldn't have been perfect rectangular prisms so I've not added the gain from excavated material to partially compensate for that. Wiernik's model is still off the charts inaccurate. It's my contention that the graves and stockpiles shown in the models are purely imaginary.

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby alison_quinn » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun May 12, 2019 2:03 am)

This is the area that a recent Treblinka study found to be "disturbed"/"may contain graves".
No one has ever proven that bodies lie there.

Image

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Moderator » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun May 12, 2019 9:14 am)

alison_quinn wrote:This is the area that a recent Treblinka study found to be "disturbed"/"may contain graves".
No one has ever proven that bodies lie there.

Image

Please give source and more information from this alleged "study".
Thanks, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun May 12, 2019 9:34 am)

That is from Sturdy Colls' report:

https://web.archive.org/web/20181102120 ... s12PhD.pdf
or
https://archive.org/details/SturdyColls12PhD

If there were graves as alleged, we would have seen them by now

Image

The "Wiernik model" of Treblinka II:
Image


For more on Sturdy Colls, check out:

Forum Search "sturdy colls"
search.php?keywords=sturdy+colls

Caroline Sturdy-Colls lied.
viewtopic.php?t=11121

Wiener Library / fraudulent & debunked Sturdy-Colls Treblinka exhibit
viewtopic.php?t=10572

Treblinka Archaeology Hoax (video)
https://archive.org/details/TheTreblinkaArchaeologyHoax

Comments on Treblinka Statements by Caroline Sturdy Colls
https://codoh.com/library/document/3952/
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Hannover » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun May 12, 2019 9:46 am)

alison_quinn wrote:This is the area that a recent Treblinka study found to be "disturbed"/"may contain graves".
No one has ever proven that bodies lie there.

Image


Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.
Image

Photo from ‘Surviving Treblinka’, by Samuel Willenberg.
Image
It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”.
Does anyone see any “corpses”?

- Hannover

No alleged human remains of millions to be seen in allegedly known locations, no 'holocaust'.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Atigun » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun May 12, 2019 6:43 pm)

It's claimed that the totenlager at Treblinka was about 5 acres. Clearly, the graves and the attendant stockpiled soil would have required at least that much area. No witnesses that I know of mentioned the excavated soil being hauled away in any sort of conveyance and all of the models, including the Laponder scale model (1:400) show graves with the ex stockpiled around them. That is an absolute impossibility. Claims that the graves may have been located fail to account for the excavated soil. That's for Wiernik's five graves. Rajchman's claim of eleven even larger graves with one capable of containing 250,000 cadavers is clearly beyond consideration.

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Hannover » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun May 12, 2019 8:06 pm)

From the first post in this thread:
Yankel Wiernik gives the dimensions of the graves at Treblinka as being 10X25X50 meters or 12,500 cubic meters per grave and a total of five graves. That amounts to 62,500 cubic meters of soil excavated for the graves.

Yankel Wiernik is highly cited by True Believers, yet what he says is beyond absurd. See more about this laughable liar here:

'Holocaust Industy's' Roberto Muehlenkamp cites Yankel Wiernik as proof of extermination of 900,000 Jews at Treblinka !!:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11271

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. Only lie require censorship.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun May 12, 2019 8:19 pm)

Hannover wrote:From the first post in this thread:
Yankel Wiernik gives the dimensions of the graves at Treblinka as being 10X25X50 meters or 12,500 cubic meters per grave and a total of five graves. That amounts to 62,500 cubic meters of soil excavated for the graves.

Yankel Wiernik is highly cited by True Believers, yet what he says is beyond absurd. See more about this laughable liar here:

'Holocaust Industy's' Roberto Muehlenkamp cites Yankel Wiernik as proof of extermination of 900,000 Jews at Treblinka !!:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11271

An American football field is 5,350 meters squared. That would mean an entire US football field, 11.7 meters (or 38 feet) high. That's in between a 2 and 3 story building.

Image

Shouldn't be very difficult to locate such enormous mass graves full of the burnt remains of 870,000 Jews. But, apparently, it is impossible :lol:
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Hannover » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun May 12, 2019 9:50 pm)

and:

- Wiernik claimed that up to 1200 people could fit into an area 7 X 7 m, in other words more than 20 people per sq. meter!!

- According to Wiernik the 7 X 7 m (49 sq.m.) gas chamber that held 1200 people was an improvement over a previous gas chamber that was 25 sq. meters and could hold 500 people.

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby borjastick » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Mon May 13, 2019 1:49 am)

alison_quinn wrote:This is the area that a recent Treblinka study found to be "disturbed"/"may contain graves".
No one has ever proven that bodies lie there.

Image


Because when disposing of 800,000 dead bodies one would dig random and irregular holes in the ground in the hope that they might suffice...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Crystal » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Mon May 13, 2019 11:46 am)

alison_quinn wrote:This is the area that a recent Treblinka study found to be "disturbed"/"may contain graves".
No one has ever proven that bodies lie there.

Image


Alison, I believe you are correct when you state: "No one has ever proven that bodies lie there. [Treblinka II]"

However, I do not believe your claim that "a recent Treblinka study" actually "found" areas that were "disturbed" (The blue areas).

Can you prove that your statement is correct?

If so, would you please provide us, right here in this thread, with the proof?

Thank you.

Would you please start by complying with the moderators request:

Moderator wrote:
alison_quinn wrote:This is the area that a recent Treblinka study found to be "disturbed"/"may contain graves".
No one has ever proven that bodies lie there.

Image

Please give source and more information from this alleged "study".
Thanks, M1

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Crystal » 6 months 2 weeks ago (Sun May 19, 2019 9:36 am)

Allison,

After you posted this:

alison_quinn wrote:

This is the area that a recent Treblinka study found to be "disturbed"/"may contain graves".


I asked you:

Can you prove that your statement is correct?


As all can see, you have not responded.

I will take that non response to mean that you cannot prove that your statement is true.

You also made this statement:

"No one has ever proven that bodies lie there. [Treblinka II]"


Which begs a follow-up question:

Has it ever been proven that any bodies were ever buried at Treblinka II?

If your answer is yes, then would you please tell us how many and where?

Thanks.

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Atigun » 6 months 2 weeks ago (Sun May 19, 2019 7:01 pm)

I think it's reasonable to assume that a relatively small number of bodies were buried at Treblinka II. Travel conditions could be harsh and people do die from old age and disease. I suppose that a number could be estimated from mortality tables for a given population and the time spent in transit but it would still be just an estimate since typhus was prevalent during that time. That said, the notion that about 700,000 cadavers were buried, exhumed and cremated along with another 150,000 - 200,000 is absurd.

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 2 weeks ago (Mon May 20, 2019 6:53 am)

from Yitzhak Arad’s book - BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - (chapter 23) - The Erasure of the Crimes:
The camp command was confronted with the problem of disposing of the large piles of ash and bits of bone that remained… Ultimately it was decided to dump the ash and bits of bone into the ditches that had previously held the bodies and to cover them with a thick layer of sand and dirt… [Eyewitness] Abraham Goldfarb relates: …’we secretly placed in the walls of the graves whole skeletons and we wrote on scraps of paper what the Germans were doing at Treblinka. We put the scraps of paper into bottles, which we placed next to the skeletons. Our intention was that if one day someone looked for traces, they could indeed be found.’


Where are the bottles with messages?
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Models of Treblinka

Postby Crystal » 6 months 2 weeks ago (Fri May 24, 2019 3:43 pm)

Atigun wrote:I think it's reasonable to assume that a relatively small number of bodies were buried at Treblinka II. Travel conditions could be harsh and people do die from old age and disease. I suppose that a number could be estimated from mortality tables for a given population and the time spent in transit but it would still be just an estimate since typhus was prevalent during that time. That said, the notion that about 700,000 cadavers were buried, exhumed and cremated along with another 150,000 - 200,000 is absurd.


The problem with this statement is, the models of Treblinka (and the alleged "areas of disturbance" in the map proffered by Allison) concern the alleged "huge mass graves" and not "reasonable assumptions" about a small number of deaths that may have occurred while transiting people through Treblinka II. Even if it is supposed that a small number of people died while being transited to the east, it does not follow that they were subsequently buried within the boundary of Treblinka II. It seems more reasonable to to me to assume that the nearby cemetery would be utilized.

Why were those who died while interned at Treblinka I buried in the nearby cemetery and not within the camp itself? Why would bodies be buried within the boundary of Treblinka II when there was a cemetery nearby?

The questions that have to be asked to anyone who alleges burial of any amount within the boundary of Treblinka II are these:

#5 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can prove currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.

#20 - Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can prove currently contains the most human remains - is number: __?__.


http://nafcash.com/



As far as I know, it has never been proven that a single person was ever buried and / or cremated within the boundary of Treblinka II.

If that statement seems like a stretch to you, then please take a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwj4jMnWZg

and tell me how much human remains have been proven to exist in the Auschwitz "ash pond."


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