Treblinka study by Krege

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Pepper » 9 years 7 months ago (Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:49 pm)

Lamprecht suggested this thread earlier for this subject, and I'm going to talk about Krege's GPR on this thread only from now on because that 30 Treblinka questions thread is becoming just a mish-mash of posts.

I still haven't received an answer from Irving from my second email.

He responded to my first, but did not answer my very simple and direct question.

I'll send him a third.

I'll post more info soon.

Anyone else get an answer or a response?


Hanover:

The questions remains, why don't the Believers try to prove him wrong?



Yes, that is THE question.

But of course we all know the answer.

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Lamprecht » 9 years 7 months ago (Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:00 pm)

None of the three emails I sent have been replied to.
:(
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Pepper » 9 years 7 months ago (Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:08 pm)

Irving is in dodge mode.

I think I'll turn up the heat.

Hope jnovitz gives us some info to work with soon.

But it looks like he's in dodge mode also.

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Pepper » 9 years 7 months ago (Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:54 pm)

jnovitz

Lamprecht, I am not sure how important this is for you.

there is a nice video of Krege at work that is somewhere on codoh. Hannover will probably know the URL.

The scan was originally from the canberra times or the adelaide advertiser and was presumably provided by Krege to the paper himself.

I agree that its highly unsatisfactory that no official report was published. He is quite easy to find in the Quenbeyan phonebook if you want to ask him politely why. I never have, but I should one day. I think if we knew the answer we might find out why revisionism never goes anywhere.

Having visited the site, myself, sans GPR, I can quite believe his results however.



Pepper

Can you tell us how you know this?

Can you prove it?

Here is there web link to the Canberra Times:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/


Here is the web link to the adelaide advertiser

http://adelaideadvertiser.newspaperdire ... iewer.aspx



jnovitz

Certainly I can.

If it so important to you send me a message and we can discuss an appropriate fee to cover time and costs.



Pepper

Hey that's great jnovitz.

Let's start with you telling us how you know this and then we'll get to you're proving it after that.

So jnovitz, please tell us how you know that:

"The scan was originally from the canberra times or the adelaide advertiser and was presumably provided by Krege to the paper himself."


This should help us a lot.

Thanks in advance jnovitz.



jnovitz

Actually I may be wrong as I was thinking of this link
http://www.ety.com/HRP/rev/treblinka-lie.htm

which only creates the impression of the photo being published there and it probably wasnt.

So I base my belief this is a Krege scan on the basis that it was on a number of websites and has never been denied by Krege. If it was on Toeben's website that would represent a fairly definitive acknowledgement of authership.

Incidently, I have dropped in on the middle of this discussion and I am struggling to understand your point here Pepper?

Do you agree Krege went to Treblinka yes or no?
Do you agee he took GPR scans there, yes or no?

What problem do you have with this being one of these scans - given in any circumstances we are really on Krege's honesty in not substituting those scans he took in poland with some from his backyard.



Pepper

jnovitz, I'm moving your questions over to the

Treblinka study by Krege

thread.



And here we are.

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Pepper » 9 years 7 months ago (Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:17 pm)

jnovitz

The scan was originally from the canberra times or the adelaide advertiser and was presumably provided by Krege to the paper himself.



Pepper

Can you prove this?



jnovitz

I certainly can. If it so important to you send me a message and we can discuss an appropriate fee to cover time and costs.



Pepper

Hey that's great jnovitz.

Let's start with you telling us how you know this and then we'll get to your proving it after that.



jnovitz

Actually I may be wrong



Well, things sure change quickly with you, don't they jnovitz?

It's a good thing that I didn't send you any money to cover your "appropriate fee to cover time and costs."

Are you sure you don’t' want me to send you some money to cover an "appropriate fee to cover your time and costs" for this little conversation?

Perhaps jnovitz, you should send me some money as an "appropriate fee to cover my time and costs?"

But maybe not, because, up to this point, I’ve only seen lame ass rodohoaxers say such dumb shit as asking for money to prove something that they said. You have to admit, don’t you jnovitz, that asking for money to prove something like you did is very rodohoaxerish?


jnovitz

Incidentally, I have dropped in on the middle of this discussion and I am struggling to understand your point here Pepper?


Yes, struggling is a very good way to describe what you're doing here jnovitz.

I have a novel idea jnovitz, why not go to the beginning of the thread and read it from beginning to end? Or do you think that your time is so much more valuable than mine that you can just jump in and expect me to take the time and effort, that you don’t want to expend, to get you up to speed?

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 7 months ago (Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:17 am)

Or do you think that your time is so much more valuable than mine


Yes I do.

So you refuse to answer my simple yes or no questions do you?

Are you paid by ADL to disrupt here....yes or no?

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Pepper » 9 years 7 months ago (Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:22 am)

jnovitz, have you gone to the beginning of that thread and read it from beginning to end?

Yes or No?


jnovitz

Do you agree Krege went to Treblinka yes or no?



How could a person watch Krege's Treblinka video and NOT agree that Krege went to Treblinka?

What a stupid question.

A blind man could tell you that Krege went to Treblinka.

Wouldn't you agree that that was an incredibly stupid question jnovitz?

Yes or No?


jnovitz

Are you paid by ADL to disrupt here....yes or no?



Yes and no. Haven't you been paying attention?

I'm Nick Terry's sock-puppet. But I'm not being paid by the ADL. I'm being paid by the SPLC.


jnovitz

The scan was originally from the canberra times or the adelaide advertiser and was presumably provided by Krege to the paper himself.


Pepper

Can you prove this?


jnovitz

I certainly can.



So you admit jnovitz, that you lied when you were challenged to prove your statement?

Yes or no?



Pepper

You have to admit, don’t you jnovitz, that asking for money to prove something like you did is very rodohoaxerish?


jnovitz:

Refused to answer this question.


jnovitz, do you admit that you refused to answer that simple question that I asked you?

Yes or no?


jnovitz, do you know for a fact the location where that scan photo was taken?

Yes or no?

Do you know for a fact by who and where that scan photo was first posted on the www?

Yes or no?

Do you know for a fact who / where David Irving got that scan photo from?

Yes or no?

Do you know why David Irving is evading questions about who / where he got that scan photo from?

Yes or no?

Do you know what David Irving is trying to hide?

Yes or no?

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 7 months ago (Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:32 am)

No
No
No
Yes - although to be honest I didnt actually see it.
Yes, I know within reasonable limits of certainity. Apart from logical deductions from predefined axioms (eg 1 and 1 equal 2), can anyone truly be sure of anything based on sense data (see the Locke, Berkeley debate)
No
Yes (see the Locke Berkeley answer above)
No, but I guess its because he thinks you are an idiot
Yes, he is trying to hide that he posts on Codoh as jnovitz

I have to admit the SPLC are really getting their moneys worth from you.

What exact point are you trying to make with this scan thing anyway?
Why would Krege be perpetuating a fraud on everyone? Surely if he wanted to do that he could just have scanned the Adelaide Oval and taken some photos of treblinka and published ages ago
Yes or No?

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Drew J » 9 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:02 am)

The fact that revisionists are not agreeing on this being an authentic GPR scan from Krege would show guys like Muehlenkamp that not all revisionists think alike. I can remember once Ernst zundel basically affirmed that a holocaust happened in world war two. Dresden was a holocaust for example. Zundel isn't a denier, just a revisionist. Completely different things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vSuonGoU8E&NR=1
He affirms the second world war holocaust beginning at 7:04.

In other words, he and every other revisionist worth their salt knows millions died. What they, and I, object to are exaggerations upon which justifications for

-the nation of Israel (carved out of arab inhabitated Palestine)
-millions upon millions tax free dollars to Israel from America annually
-hate crimes legislation which restricts free speech
-shakedown of German and Swiss banks for money based on six million Jewish corpses that don't exist

are all based.

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Lamprecht » 9 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:38 am)

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... -full.html

It never occurs to Gerdes[pepper] to ask why Irving and other deniers would publish this scan had it not come from Krege.
Apparently pepper's emails to Irving never existed?
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Pepper » 9 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:26 am)

Mulenkamp

Gerdes then goes into full conspiraloon mode against his fellow denier jnovitz:



Isn't it funny how it implies I'm Mr. Gerdes and calls me a conspiraloon while it accuses me of being Greg Gerdes?

Of course, I don't know for a fact if Mr. Gerdes has ever emailed Irving, so Mulenkamp may be right.

But I doubt it.

But it does beg the question:

Has Mulenkamp ever asked Irving where he got that scan photo?


jnovitz

Why would Krege be perpetuating a fraud on everyone?



Why are people jumping to this conclusion?

I have yet to see any proof that that photo was taken by Krege, taken at Treblinka or given to Irving by Krege.

Of course, Lamprecht has an email sent to Krege, so hopefully we'll soon know more.

And if Krege ignores Lamprecht like Irving is ignoring me, well, that will make me as suspicious of Krege as I currently am of Irving.

One point here. I've yet to post Irvings response to me because I'm still waiting for him to answer my question.

But what Irving did was IMPLY that Krege was his source.

Of course, his attempt at deflection was poorly done. That is why I challenged him to answer my simple and direct question in a simple and direct manner.

Which he has since refused to do.

If Krege was his source, then why didn't he just say so?

If Krege was his source, then why not answer the simple question in a manner that leaves no doubt?

Why answer a simple and direct question in such an obviously evasive manner?

Doesn't make sense, does it?

I'll send him another email today.
Last edited by Pepper on Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Drew J » 9 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:07 pm)

From Roberto Muehlenkamp.
It never occurs to Gerdes to ask why Irving and other deniers would publish this scan had it not come from Krege.

This is a good point. It's one revisionists in the past have accepted and that is why they have said it did come from Krege. However, there is also nothing wrong with Pepper asking for definite proof of where it came from. Muehlenkamp has a reasonable question, but Pepper's is also reasonable which is why should we simply believe it? Pepper asks what is the harm in investigating further just incase or just because? Answer. There is no harm. In fact, it's a good idea. Why take something for granted if you don't have to, right?

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby PatrickSMcNally » 9 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:47 pm)

Drew J wrote:This is a good point. It's one revisionists in the past have accepted and that is why they have said it did come from Krege.

There really isn't much point in going around in circles about Krege until someone gets into publication what Germar Rudolf had said, before being arbitrarily seized into captivity, he intended to publish. At the time of late 2005, about 4 years ago, Rudolf had posted a notice that an upcoming publication of his would be a copy of the Krege report, accompanied by relevant commentary. Then he was grabbed up and the whole project vanished. Although supposedly Theses & Dissertations Press continued to operate under different management, and supposedly both Mark Weber and Willis Carto do apparently have the resources to get things into publication when they care to, no one has done anything about since Rudolf's imprisonment. Rudolf has now been released, but it's really not fair to expect that he's going to come running to start publishing the same things which got him into trouble in the first place. If he just lives quietly looking after a child growing up then that's a perfectly legitimate decision by him. So the initiative has to come from somewhere else. Until that is done, and until someone publishes something like the book which Rudolf had intended for publication, there's no purpose served by guessing what was in it or not.

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Lamprecht » 9 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:28 pm)

PatrickSMcNally wrote:
Drew J wrote:This is a good point. It's one revisionists in the past have accepted and that is why they have said it did come from Krege.

There really isn't much point in going around in circles about Krege until someone gets into publication what Germar Rudolf had said, before being arbitrarily seized into captivity, he intended to publish. At the time of late 2005, about 4 years ago, Rudolf had posted a notice that an upcoming publication of his would be a copy of the Krege report, accompanied by relevant commentary. Then he was grabbed up and the whole project vanished. Although supposedly Theses & Dissertations Press continued to operate under different management, and supposedly both Mark Weber and Willis Carto do apparently have the resources to get things into publication when they care to, no one has done anything about since Rudolf's imprisonment. Rudolf has now been released, but it's really not fair to expect that he's going to come running to start publishing the same things which got him into trouble in the first place. If he just lives quietly looking after a child growing up then that's a perfectly legitimate decision by him. So the initiative has to come from somewhere else. Until that is done, and until someone publishes something like the book which Rudolf had intended for publication, there's no purpose served by guessing what was in it or not.

J Harrison brought up an interesting point on RM's blog:

Code: Select all

You may not be aware that Krege attended the Teheran Conference in 2006, where papers were published. His failure to produce his findings at that venue is curious, surely? He had the perfect stage and he had enough finance to fly from Australia to Iran. The idea that he was dependent on Rudolf to get this work in the public domain is absurd.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Treblinka study by Krege

Postby Pepper » 9 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:59 pm)

Drew

This is a good point.



No, it's not a good point.

Mulenkamp is going on assumptions. We're asking for proof.

And how does mulenkamp, or you, or anyone, know what Mr. Gerdes has asked, or what has occurred to him?

I for one have asked myself that question. But since all the answers I've come up with are pure conjecture, what's the point of asking anyone but the primary sources?

Also, that scan photo was once on the nafcash site. Now it's not.

Why?

My guess is, something "occurred" to them.

Probably the same thing that occurred to Lamprecht.

And that is there's something fishy about that scan photo.

Does anyone know if Mr. Gerdes has ever contacted Mr. Krege?

I would find it hard to believe that he never has.

And there is something very fishy about Irving.

Let's not forget that Irving is not a "denier."

He told Mr. Berg that he believes it's entirely possible that 2.4 million jews were killed at Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka combined.

(How can mulenkamp call Irving a "denier" when Irving believes that twice as many jews died in those 3 camps as mulenkamp himself?)


Drew

Why take something for granted if you don't have to



Now that's a good point.


PSM

Until that is done, and until someone publishes something like the book which Rudolf had intended for publication, there's no purpose served by guessing what was in it or not.



Who's guessing?

We're asking questions and we're going to primary sources for answers.


BTW, I sent my third email to Irving this morning.

I pulled a page from jnovitz's playbook and asked Irving two yes or no questions.

There is simply no reason in the world why Irving shouldn't or can't answer them.

Unless he's afraid of something.

It never occurs to mulenkamp and other hoaxers to ask why Irving refuses to answer such simple questions.

If he got if from Krege, then why doesn't he just come out and say that he got it from Krege?

And even if he did get it from Krege, this issue is still far from over.

There are still other questions that have to be answered about that scan photo.
Last edited by Pepper on Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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