Alois Brunner / Georg(e) Fischer

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Alois Brunner / Georg(e) Fischer

Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:42 pm)

I am reading Robert Fisk's Pity the Nation: The Abduction of Lebanon, and I came across the following today:

Note: This excerpt is NOT for commercial purposes, but for EDUCATIONAL research and discussion.

Syria's torturers were not without their tutors, and one of the earliest of them was still living in George Haddad Street, a quiet, tree-lined thoroughfare not far from the British Embassy. He was an Austrian pensioner of 71, a reticent old man known to his neighbours as George Fischer, an apparently harmless eccentric who kept pet rabbits on the roof of his apartment. Every day at ten o'clock, he took a constitutional walk outside his home and once a week he visited the Hamadiyeh souq next to the Umayyad mosque to buy vegetables. All that distinguished him from other visitors to the market were his blue eyes, four missing fingers and the two mukhabarrat* gunmen who always accompanied him to the souk, Kalashnikovs in their hands.

A visit to George Haddad Street confirmed that Fischer was no ordinary retired expatriate. He lived on the third floor of a yellow-painted apartment building but his name did not appear beside any of the doorbells that were screwed onto the wall next to the tall wrought-iron double gate. Fischer's exclusivity was doubly emphasised by the young man who stood, day and night, opposite his gate, dressed in a black leather zip-up jacket with a pistol in his belt. At each end of the street, there stood two more Syrian security men, one resting a submachine-gun on his shoulder.

Certainly, Fischer had need of protection. In 1981, a parcel arrived for him with a Vienna postmark franked on the paper. It contained explosives and blew off four of his fingers. He had told a neighbour - a diplomat from the Swedish Embassy - that once, long ago, he used to train German shepherd dogs for the Syrian army. And one night, when he was very drunk, he told a friend that, before President Assad's** 'corrective' revolution, he had instructed the Syrian security apparatus in the use of an ingenious interrogation machine. It was a wheel upon which prisoners could be strapped and beaten with electric cable. Every few minutes, an automatic pump would spray water through the wheel to open the prisoners' wounds, whereupon the whippings could start again.

If old Fischer was therefore an unconventional pensioner, his pedigree suggested an even more chilling career. For to his friend, he had confided that George Fischer was in fact Alois Brunner, SS Obsersturmbannführer, senior officer in the Sonderkommando der Sicherheitspolizei für Judenangelegenheiten, responsible for the deportation of tens of thousands of Jews from the Greek city of Salonika in 1943. Born in the Austrian village of Rohrbrunn in 1912, Brunner joined the Nazi Party in 1931 and entered the police school in Graz a year later. He assisted Adolf Eichmann in the arrest and deportation of Jews from Vienna in 1938 and was posted in 1943 to Salonika where, under the command of Maximilian Merten, he signed the orders for 46,091 Jews to be deported to Auschwitz and other extermination camps. Greek survivors of the Jewish Holocaust recall that he would whip uncooperative prisoners or threaten them while holding a revolver in each hand. He was subsequently transferred to command the French transit camp at Drancy, whence he deported a further 24,000 Jews to the camps in eastern Europe.

Then he disappeared. In the 1950s he was seen in Cairo, where he was allegedly helping Nasser to train the Egyptian security police in interrogation techniques. During the period of the United Arab Republic - the political union of Egypt and Syria - he travelled to Damascus, where he was still working, helping the Syrian secret service, when the Egyptian-Syrian alliance fell apart. In 1960, he advised on the purchase of 2,000 items of bugging equipment from East Germany, but his usefulness apparently ended. When Assad came to power in 1971, he 'inherited' Brunner who was, so the Syrians privately acknowledged, an embarrassment, an unsavoury throwback to the bad old days of reactionary Arab politics. Brunner was pensioned off after promising to remain silent. In return for keeping his mouth very firmly shut, he could stay in Damascus.

Robert Fisk, Pity the Nation: The Abduction of Lebanon, pp. 179-80.

*Syrian intelligence unit (my clarification)
** Syrian President Hafez Assad (my clarification)
Note: I apologise for any typing mistakes


So, any thoughts on Alois Brunner? I did a search for him on the forum but didn't come up with anything. Allegedly, he had helped the Syrians with torture methods.

Here's something I found (a Jewish website) about Alois Brunner: Link

On Brunner, from the Macedonian Press Agency

Alois Brunner to be tried in absentia

Something from the IHR

Also,

In 1987 in a telephone interview Alois Brunner told the Chicago Sun Times:

"The Jews deserved to die. I have no regrets. If I had the chance I would do it again .."

Source


Anyone know if that is true? Was something of the sort published in the Chicago Sun Times?

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:10 pm)

Here's something I found by searching the archives of the Chicago Sun Times, on their website:

Nazi butcher in Syria haven
`I have no regrets and I'd do it again,' he says


Author: Chuck Ashman
Date: November 1, 1987
Publication: Chicago Sun-Times

Excerpt:
The world's most notorious Nazi war criminal still at large admits everything, regrets nothing and would do it all over again, he told the Chicago Sun-Times last week.

Alois Brunner, now 75, lives quietly at 7 Rue Haddad in Damascus where he is protected by around-the-clock bodyguards provided by the Syrian government in exchange for his recent service to Syria in "security matters."

In a brief telephone conversation, in front of a witness, Brunner said: "All of...

Source


Only an excerpt is available. You must pay to get access to the complete story..

:?:

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:47 pm)

Fisk is clueless, in over his head when it comes to SS men, the alleged stories about them, and the so called 'holocau$t.

Here we have Brunner involved in deportations, which no one argues with, turned into alleged gassings for which there is no evidence. Dumbfounded Fisk is merely repeating the mandated and absurd judeo-supremacist dogma.

I'm not sure what Brunner supposedly said in the phone interview, perhaps something about 'not regretting' the deportations construed as meaning alleged 'gassings' ... if this phone interview can be trusted.

The IHR piece linked above says it nicely; excerpt:
"When did you learn about the gassing of Jews?" Honsik asked. Brunner's reply: "After the war, from the newspapers!"

Honsik [interviewer] asked about widely reported remarks by Brunner in recent years, such as apparently incriminating comments like "I would do it again." Actually, this is a reference not to extermination but to deportation work, Honsik relates.

"From the newspapers", not from his experiences; the newspapers were merely repeating the propaganda which Revisionists have debunked over & over again.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:26 pm)

Honsik is now also in trouble for writing the book "Freispruch fuer Hitler" (Acquittal for Hitler) and had to leave his home country in a hurry. I think that he lives now in Spain.

It is in his country against the law to criticize anything about the Jewish Holocaust.

Why would 'truth' need laws of protection?

fge

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:43 pm)

Thanks for the replies Hannover, Sailor.

Well, yes, it's true that revisionists have debunked all the exterminationist claims, but I'm trying to be objective here (if there's any such thing, that is) - so what you're saying is that we shouldn't trust the source that alleged that Brunner said that he didn't regret sending Jews to gas chambers (although the very fact that the gas chambers have been proven to have NOT existed would be quite damning to this alleged "interview" - but let's assume that it isn't, for the sake of the argument), so why should we trust Honsik then, and his alleged interview?

I think this tactic / fallacy used (albeit not so often, but I keep noticing this a lot lately) by revisionists is not doing us any good. I suppose the fact that the gas chambers could NOT have existed would be the best argument, because it'd either prove that the interview didn't take place, or that they put words into Brunner's mouth, OR, that Brunner lied. In all these cases, exterminationists would be on the losing side at any rate. So I don't see the point of bringing in another interviewer (because I doubt that proves anything per se - of course, we could have the utmost trust in that specific interviewer, but that doesn't prove the validity of the "report").

And yes, I agree that Fisk is clueless about the "holocaust". The excerpt from Fisk's book was only to set up some background in this post to the allegations against Brunner, etc. My main question was about that interview.. And also, what was Brunner doing in Syria? Why was he under such heavy protection by the Syrian intelligence units? Or was he in Syria? etc. Fisk has dedicated an entire chapter (the opening chapter of his book about the Lebanese civil war) to the "holocaust" (Sepia Pictures on a Wall), in which he talks to a "survivor" of the "holocauast" - a man by the name of Szymon Datner.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:17 am)

I'm not certain what this phone interview supposedly entailed, but I quickly surmised that 'deportations' would be considered a 'code word' for alleged gassings. That is routine and oh so convenient for those who want to create a false impression of events.....simply say a word means what it doesn't say. My thoughts were confirmed by the IHR piece which pre-dates the cited newspaper article, which I couldn't access.

As to why Brunner is in Syria is open to conjecture. But he is a marked man by the Zionists, whom Syria is not particularily fond of. And more than likely Syria doesn't want Brunner kidnapped a la Eichmann, hence the guards. I can't imagine a man of Brunner's age being much good at providing 'service in security matters' for Syria.

Fisk? Well, he's in hot water already with Zionists for his scathing reports on Israeli apartheid. Lacking knowledge of Revisionists efforts, he tries to fend off the judeo-supremacists by dancing to the 'holocaust' tune.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:21 pm)

As to why Brunner is in Syria is open to conjecture. But he is a marked man by the Zionists, whom Syria is not particularily fond of. And more than likely Syria doesn't want Brunner kidnapped a la Eichmann, hence the guards. I can't imagine a man of Brunner's age being much good at providing 'service in security matters' for Syria.


Hmm.. Why wouldn't Syria want Brunner kidnapped then? Why would it care for a regular foreigner (or even a Nazi) if he hasn't been involved in their security services? Why would Syria accept a notorious "war criminal" (even if they don't think he is a war criminal), if he's not giving them anything in return? I don't know. I guess I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but it's interesting to hear some explanations with regards to those questions.. :?

As for your last comment on Fisk - amen. Couldn't have said it any better. He seems to be very anti-Zionist at some points, but then it seems like he's trying to jump back and forth between both sides, and satisfy them both... of course, that doesn't mean he's not a good reporter/journalist, but not when it comes to mixing historical untruths in his reporting.. :?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:37 pm)

Well yes, I have no conclusive info. on Brunner's reason for being in Syria. He may be acting as an interpretor for Syrian business concerns or security agencies, maybe he likes Syria and has a legal residency which Syria feels compelled to protect from Zionist agents. I don't buy the notion that they would benefit by him being kidnapped a la Eichmann, it would show Syrian weakness and present a huge diplomatic, international law crisis which they surely wish to avoid.

Anyway, no gas chambers.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:42 pm)

I don't buy the notion that they would benefit by him being kidnapped a la Eichmann, it would show Syrian weakness

You're right, and I agree. But isn't there also a possibility that the reason they wouldn't "benefit" from the kidnapping of brunner is that he was acquainted with at least some of the Syrian intelligence secrets and/or the treatment of prisoners? I mean, we don't know anything about this, so it's also possible for this to be true (not saying it is).. Only thing is, since we're not sure about anything regarding Brunner's involvement with Syria, and his alleged interview (I mean, anyone could claim they had an interview with Brunner, non?), so we cannot really take any of the speculation regarding Brunner as "facts", unless we have solid proof..

Also, Fisk mentions that when he tried to contact Brunner for an interview, he refused to talk to him about anything, because he had "made deals with the Syrian government." So if he had made deals with the Syrian government, how come he talked with the other interviewer? Also, if they knew his whereabouts enough to establish a telephone connection with him for an interview, wouldn't they have caught the horrible horrible war criminal?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:01 pm)

TruthSeeker said:
...we cannot really take any of the speculation regarding Brunner as "facts", unless we have solid proof...

Absolutely. However, Honsik's information does square with the forensic research which reveals no gas chambers.
and:
So if he had made deals with the Syrian government, how come he talked with the other interviewer? Also, if they knew his whereabouts enough to establish a telephone connection with him for an interview, wouldn't they have caught the horrible horrible war criminal?

- Perhaps he made the deal with the Syrians after the Honsik interview.
- He certainly is not the war criminal as alleged, and he is supposedly being guarded.
- As is typical with these high-up Nazi 'war criminals', they are preferred dead rather than alive. He sounds to me like a man who would be very vocal about knowing nothing about gas chambers if seized. Brunner in court could be a nightmare for the Zionists. I doubt they could again get away with Eichmann like treatment as the world watched, especially Revisionists; who would follow the story every step of the way.

The Fisk piece was so patently absurd, my respect for him has plummeted. A squirting wheel machine !!! ??? Fisk has read too much of the likes of Elie Wiesel or Simon (Mr. Human Soap) Wiesenthal.

Still no gas chambers.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:23 pm)

However, Honsik's information does square with the forensic research which reveals no gas chambers.

Actually, and I must correct myself here, I don't think he mentioned anything about gas chambers per se. Only "killing Jews" and that they "deserved to die".. And of course, here again, there is no proof that there were any extermination orders, so we come back to the same point, but it's not quite as blunt as the gas chambers.

OK, here's some clarification:

-Fisk claims that he tried to get an interview with Brunner in 1983.
-That alleged interview with the Chicago Sun Times was in 1987.

So I'm guessing that it's entirely possible that Brunner might've changed his mind about giving interviews, if the interview with Chicago Sun Times has really taken place, that is..

I doubt they could again get away with Eichmann like treatment as the world watched, especially Revisionists; who would follow the story every step of the way.

I absolutely agree with you on this. So where was Mr. Nazi-hunter when everyone was talking about how Brunner was in Syria?

The Fisk piece was so patently absurd, my respect for him has plummeted. A squirting wheel machine !!! ??? Fisk has read too much of the likes of Elie Wiesel or Simon (Mr. Human Soap) Wiesenthal.

The squirting wheel machine he's talking about is in Syria. And such torture devices, or at least similar ones, do exist in Syria.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:38 pm)

Actually, and I must correct myself here, I don't think he mentioned anything about gas chambers per se. Only "killing Jews" and that they "deserved to die"..

Do you have a citation for that? In Honsik's book?

Speaking of Honsik's book, does anyone know of an English translation? It must have some damning info. if it's been banned.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:18 am)

No, I'm talking about the Chicago Sun Times article.. they claim that during the telephone interview with Brunner, he said that he didn't regret the killing of Jews, that they deserved to die, and that he'd do it again if he had the chance.. :shock: That sounds like a very childish thing to say - I doubt that Brunner said it - it sounds really fabricated, but we can't claim it's didn't happen just because they can't provide any proof that this interview really did take place (e.g.: just because we can't prove that God exists doesn't mean he doesn't exist), and that Brunner really did say that - it's just that they have no proof, and therefore, it's an irrelevant claim, because it in turn can prove nothing. In other words, it's nothing more than an unbased accusation. :)

I don't have Honsik's book, so I wouldn't know what he wrote about this.. :?

Here's what I'm talking about:

In 1987 in a telephone interview Alois Brunner told the Chicago Sun Times:

"The Jews deserved to die. I have no regrets. If I had the chance I would do it again .."

Source

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:12 am)

If anyone believes the Sun Times quote then I have some human skin lampshades for them.

Note that we do not have the full interview. We're not told who did the interview? I assume this interview was done in German ... and then creatively translated from German to English. Who did the translation? I assume the interview was taped, where's the tape?

I'll go back to my previous statement about the desperate reliance on fabricated codewords.
... but we can't claim it's didn't happen just because they can't provide any proof that this interview really did take place

Sure we can. Sophistry aside, the Sun Times quote makes no sense in lieu of the facts.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:00 am)

If anyone believes the Sun Times quote then I have some human skin lampshades for them.

Well, I would call that a fallacy. Just pointing out the obvious.

Note that we do not have the full interview. We're not told who did the interview? I assume this interview was done in German ... and then creatively translated from German to English. Who did the translation? I assume the interview was taped, where's the tape?

Correct. The article in the Chicago Sun Times archives is actually *for sale*, so I didn't get it.. I'm not sure if it mentions anything about that. I doubt it does, as the details would've been on the other sites if it had..

Sure we can. Sophistry aside, the Sun Times quote makes no sense in lieu of the facts.

Of course - the quote itself makes no sense because there is no proof that there was an extermination plan. But that doesn't mean that Brunner was not interviewed, or that he did not say something close to that. It might be that it was deliberately mistranslated, or the words changed to mean one thing when they were referring to another (as we've seen in many of the documents).. It's entirely possible that Brunner was talking about Jewish enemy collaborators from a strictly nationalistic point of view, isn't it? Now take that, scratch the word "collaborators", and voila, you'll have a perfect exterminationist sentence.. To claim that the interview did not happen, however, is stretching it.. we can't know for sure if it did or didn't happen; like I said, it's entirely possible that there *was* an interview, but that the words were intentionally changed so as to make up another meaning..


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