Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

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Lamprecht
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Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby Lamprecht » 1 year 6 months ago (Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:04 pm)

Someone on another website has posted the following images, and a YouTube video purporting to be from an archaeological excavation at Sobibor, by Yoram Haimi. I have edited the relevant part of the images to increase the contrast so they can be seen better:

Image 1:
Image
Claim: a picture of charred and un-charred bones collected by Haimi's team, which he numbers to 3000

Image 2:
Image
Claim: another mass grave Haimi unearthed with a great amount of women hair, he says the stench is horrible

Original images are here: https://i.imgur.com/rAuyOgF.png
and https://i.imgur.com/jJJI6n7.png

These are clearly screenshots from a YouTube video, as we can see from the layout. When asked for the video, this was posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikkp7Qrknrk

It is all in Hebrew. Google translation of the title and description gives us:
Archaeological excavations in the Sobibor extermination camp
Lecture by Mr. Yoram Hayami Director of the Sobibor Project to Blich students from the Polish delegation 2013

However, if you look at the video, these screenshots are clearly not from it. The presentation is recorded at a different angle, and the speaker is wearing a different shirt. So I did some digging, and eventually found the actual video, which is in Hebrew as well:


Title and description Google translated:
Yoram Haimi 21 6 2015
Archaeological excavations in the extermination camp
Archaeological excavations in the Sobibor extermination camp
Yoram Khami, an archaeologist and chief excavator in excavations
In Sobibor (Tel Aviv University, Weed-Shemesh)

Summer conference as part of the Psychoanalysis series in the Humanities: Human and Culture
The conference is part of a broad multidisciplinary course of study that focuses on examining how psychoanalysis meets with the same questions concerning a subject in society and culture.

What is most confusing to me is why I can't find this image anywhere else. Why isn't this photo shown in any of the news reports? Can anyone find it posted somewhere else?

Also, just looking at the image it does not appear to show the remains of 3,000 people. But even if it does have 3,000 people, that isn't really a refutation of revisionists. Revisionists do not claim that there cannot be any graves at these AR camps. Mattogno, Graf and Kues in their book on Sobibor estimate 10,000 dead at Sobibor:
"As for the first category, it is beyond any doubt that a large number of the Jews selected for work in the camp also perished there. As already mentioned, the October 1943 uprising led to the death of between 380 and 420 inmates. It is further to be assumed that an unknown number of inmates were executed in connection with earlier, failed escape attempts483 or for violating camp rules. Many eye witnesses also speak of epidemic diseases, such as typhus, claiming victims among the inmate population, 484 which was replenished with new arrivals in case of losses. All in all the number of deceased inmates may have amounted to approximately 1,000 people.

The second category is that of those who died en route. This figure is difficult to estimate, but we know that the transports from the Netherlands and France took place under relatively humane conditions,485 often using passenger trains, so that the number of en-route deaths among this group of in total (34,313+3,500=) 37,813 deportees is likely to have been small. In order to avoid accusations of underestimating the number of en route dead, we will assume, however, that 3% of all 170,165 deportees perished on board the trains due to dehydration, illness, and pressure injuries or suffocation caused by panicking fellow deportees, leading to a total of (170,165×0.03=) 5,104 en-route deaths. Since this is likely an overestimate, we will round off this figure downwards to 5,000 deaths.

As will be further discussed in chapter 8, we find it likely that deportees who were found unfit for further transport to the east due to being disease carriers, mentally ill, or dying, were euthanized at Sobibór. If we assume that 2% of all deportees, excluding the 1,000 Dutch Jews transferred to labor camps in the Lublin district, 486 were put to death, we arrive at (169,165×0.02=) 3,383 victims, which we will round up to 3,500. In addition to this, there are indications that patients from mental hospitals in the Lublin district were sent to Sobibór to be euthanized. 487 Although there is no documentary evidence to rely on, we will estimate their number to 1,000 based on a claim of non-Jewish Sobibór victims made by Polish historians. 488

Adding the three categories together we arrive at a total of (1,000+ 5,000+3,500+1,000=) 10,500 victims. It must be stressed that this is only a rough estimate, but we find it probable that the number of Sobibór victims is in the vicinity of 10,000 dead."


- Mattogno, Graf, and Kues, "Sobibór: Holocaust Propaganda and Reality." p 168-169.
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/19-s.pdf

Thoughts?
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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby Hannover » 1 year 6 months ago (Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:42 pm)

Image
A commenter to Lamprecht's above mentioned article, Evidence for the German Euthanasia Program Compared to the Holocaust, by John Wear:
http://www.unz.com/article/evidence-for ... holocaust/ said:
In fact we see only a few remains (there are four major leg bones in each human, do the math) and there is no photo in situ to verify it’s claimed location or that it was even part of Haimi’s fraudulent ‘dig’ at Sobibor. In fact there is no provenance for the hilarious photo whatsoever,
– Notice that we do not see that ‘photo’ anywhere else in stories about his corrupt archaeological event
.
Bingo!

and for the other 'photo' :
Image
"another mass grave Haimi unearthed with a great amount of women hair, he says the stench is horrible"

We see maybe 2 supposed 'skulls', absolutely no hair, and after 7+ decades the alleged hair would have decayed and certainly would not give off a "horrible stench".
Truly laughable!

Conclusion:
These curious 'photos', were not taken by Haimi or his helpers.
Haimi, by using them, has proven again that he is a liar, that he's just another run of the mill Zionist huckster.
There is no proof they are of Sobibor.
There is no proof that they are remains of Jews, or even of murdered people.
There is no proof that they are from the period.
- The claims made about them are ridiculous, with no substantiation whatsoever.

What this really does is expose Zionists like Haimi and the hapless clown who posted them, as corrupt fraudsters who rely on smoke & mirrors in the hopes of convincing the gullible.

Given that Sobibor was a transit stop for many, many thousands of people, where large numbers stopped, rested, worked, etc. it would in fact be abnormal if people didn't die there. Fact: people die where people are. A few human remains would not be strange or incriminating.
But remember, the claim is that 250,000 Jews were murdered at Sobibor AND that the remains of this alleged 250,000 are said to exist at Sobibor in precisely know locations. Yet this is what they try to push over on people.

This is just one more victory for Revisionists & truth. Only liars would resort to such desperate acts in order try and convince the naive to believe in the impossible.

Thanks to Lamprecht, good work.

- Hannover

No alleged human remains of millions in allegedly known locations to see, no 'holocaust'.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby Lamprecht » 1 year 6 months ago (Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:01 pm)

There would be no stench and no hair if the remains were actually burned. And that second photo doesn't look anything like a "Mass grave". The photo isn't clear enough to see what exactly is there, but if it is human remains that is only enough for one or two people.

Image

The maximum area of this part inside of the shape I have added here is 1.8 square meters or just under 20 square feet. But what seems to be burnt remains + wood ash (the dark stuff) does not seem to be very deep. If you notice the humerus / femur / tibia bones, they are resting over top of the ash/burnt material.

Cremated human remains are on average 5-8 lbs, but we are looking for volume here. In terms of volume, every cremation website that I found to provide such figures claims that just under one cubic inch of ash is produced per pound (about 36 cubic cm per kg).

Therefore, the claimed 3,000 jews, assuming an average weight of 100 lbs (45 kg), would have produced at least 5 cubic meters of burnt remains. Remember, this is assuming a very low body weight and using calculations based on cremations in ovens, rather than in outdoor pyres which is what is claimed at Sobibor. Likely, the volume of burnt remains + wood ash would be more than twice as much as this, 10 cubic meters. Here is a photo showing 1 cubic meter:

Image

The burnt remains would have to be stacked at least 5 meters high to fit into that area I have shown. Assume that the pit is very long, and that actually that shape only takes up 1/3 of the pit, then to fit 10 cubic meters of remains they would have to be stacked 1.8 meters high. Naturally, if it was 1/5 of the pit, they would need to be stacked 1 meter high. But they are obviously not stacked this high.

If the pit is a uniform rectangle with 2 meter width, and the remains are stacked 20cm high (0.7 foot) it would have to be 25 meters long to fit 10 cubic meters of remains. If that is true, then the photograph shows us less than 10% of the entire mass grave. Where is the rest of it? Why are there no photos? Why doesn't this photograph appear anywhere else? All we have is a screenshot from a video recording a presentation.

Again, it does not even appear from this photo that the remains are stacked anywhere near 20cm high.
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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby Hannover » 1 year 6 months ago (Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:41 pm)

Image

Indeed Lamprecht, a claim of smelly hair after 76 years which in itself contradicts the impossible claim that allged corpses were cremated and absurdly said to be ground up.

As does this claimed "Sobibor mass grave" of 4-5 nearly intact skeletons which, again, have not been proven to be from the period, have not been proven to have been murdered, have not been proven to even be Jews, and of course are obviously not 'ground up into bits' as alleged.
Image

But notice in the 'photo' below, click to enlarge.
It's meant to look as if the lightened semi-circle section, lower right, represents an area dug down into the surface, when in fact the fuzzy out of focus little white swirls / blobs on the left of the lightened semi-circle that run 2/3 up the semi circle are obviously drawn in.
The supposed 'leg bones' are placed in an attempt to create an edge / boundary, thereby hoping to create a sense of one area being lower than the other area.
And then look at the alleged 'skulls' in relation to the 'leg bones', the proportions are laughable, not compatible with reality. Fake as a three dollar bill.
Image

Yet even more fakes, forgeries from "The Holocaust Industry". There sure is a lot of them.

‘O, what a tangled web they weave when first they practise to deceive’

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby CHoutle » 1 year 6 months ago (Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:01 am)

Hannover:

As does this claimed "Sobibor mass grave" of 4-5 nearly intact skeletons...

Image


The Holocaust Archaeology Hoax website is pretty adamant that that photo shows 6 skeletons:

It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive allegations to the contrary, the truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the - one hundred - graves / cremation pits that are alleged to have been scientifically proven to currently exist at these sites, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology; contained the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.

http://nafcash.com/


If you are right, you should contact them with your information and set them straight.

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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby Lamprecht » 1 year 6 months ago (Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:49 am)

I posted:
The burnt remains would have to be stacked at least 5 meters high to fit into that area I have shown. Assume that the pit is very long, and that actually that shape only takes up 1/3 of the pit, then to fit 10 cubic meters of remains they would have to be stacked 1.8 meters high. Naturally, if it was 1/5 of the pit, they would need to be stacked 1 meter high. But they are obviously not stacked this high.

If the pit is a uniform rectangle with 2 meter width, and the remains are stacked 20cm high (0.7 foot) it would have to be 25 meters long to fit 10 cubic meters of remains. If that is true, then the photograph shows us less than 10% of the entire mass grave. Where is the rest of it? Why are there no photos? Why doesn't this photograph appear anywhere else? All we have is a screenshot from a video recording a presentation.

Again, it does not even appear from this photo that the remains are stacked anywhere near 20cm high.

But really, how long can this pit even be? No wonder we only have this one photo from one angle :lol:

Image
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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby CHoutle » 1 year 6 months ago (Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:09 pm)

Lamprecht:

However, if you look at the video, these screenshots are clearly not from it.


Yes they are.



Go to the 1;00:42 mark and the 1:01:10 mark.

What we need to know is what it is he is actually saying about those images.

Lamprecht:

Also, just looking at the image it does not appear to show the remains of 3,000 people.


My guess is he is saying 3,000 bones, not 3,000 bodies.

Look how those bones are arranged.

Claim: a picture of charred and un-charred bones collected by Haimi's team, which he numbers to 3000


"Collected."

From where exactly?

I have read that all the bones collected were reburied in a common grave.

That would explain the tidy manner in which they are arranged.

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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby Lamprecht » 1 year 6 months ago (Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:34 pm)

CHoutle:

Yes, that video is where the screenshot comes from. I explained in my OP that someone else posted these screenshots and Hannover posted a link to the unz.com article where the individual who initially posted these images claimed they came from:


However, they are clearly not from that video. The video you have posted is the one I found myself after about 10 minutes of searching through Google videos. That part is not important, beyond perhaps suggesting that this pit was excavated sometime after the first video was made (2013) and before the second (June 2015) since it was not included in the 2013 video, as far as I could tell by skimming through it.

I would not be surprised if this Haimi character claimed 3,000 people are buried in that grave, even though obviously that is impossible. I also recommend:
The Ground Water Level at Sobibór 1942-1943
https://codoh.com/library/document/648/

I can not answer your questions nor do I claim to know anything about this beyond what I have posted. I do not speak Hebrew and am not in contact with Haimi
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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby CHoutle » 1 year 6 months ago (Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:36 pm)

Lamprecht:

However, they are clearly not from that video. The video you have posted is the one I found myself after about 10 minutes of searching through Google videos.


Ok, thanks for setting me straight

But what I posted in my last post is still relevant.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12806&p=94308#p94306

The first 18 of the 24 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Sobibor - as alleged by the charlatan Yoram Haimi, can be seen in this map:

Image

And the last 6 of the 24 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Sobibor - as alleged by the charlatan Yoram Haimi,can be seen in this map:

Image

And here is how Haimi's numbers correspond to THE HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX CHALLENGE ( http://nafcash.com/ ) numbering system:


Haimi's "grave" #1 A = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #1/62

Haimi's "grave" #2 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #2/63

Haimi's "Memory Hill" (AKA the - "monument of ashes / mound of remains") = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #3/64

Haimi's "grave" #3/4 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #4/65

Haimi's "grave" #5 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #5/66

Haimi's "grave" #6 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #6/67

Haimi's "grave" #7 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #7/68

Haimi's "grave" #8 (8/15) = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #8/69

Haimi's "grave" #9 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #9/70

Haimi's "grave" #10 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #10/71

Haimi's "grave" #11 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #11/72

Haimi's "grave" #12 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #12/73

Haimi's "grave" #13 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #13/74

Haimi's "grave" #14= The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #14/75

Haimi's "grave" #15 (8/15) = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #15/76

Haimi's "grave" #16 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #16/77

Haimi's "grave" #17 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #17/78

Haimi's "grave" #18 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #18/79

Haimi's "grave" #19 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #19/80

Haimi's "grave" #20 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #20/81

Haimi's "grave" #21 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #21/82

Haimi's "grave" #22 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #22/83

Haimi's "grave" #1 B = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #23/84

Haimi's "grave" #1 C = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #24/85


Note: "Graves #21 and #22" are actually labeled by Yoram Haimi as "Objects 6094-6095." However, you cannot see his numbers clearly in the map, so #21 and #22 have used instead. (The numbers are in red, below the orange colored "graves.")

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=224 ... count=2826

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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby Lamprecht » 1 year 6 months ago (Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:28 pm)

Image

Image

There is simply no way that this grave contains the remains of 3,000 people, which would be roughly 10 cubic meters (estimate explained in previous post):

Image

If the pit is 2 meters wide (see the above graphic, which suggests it is only 1.791 meters width) and 6 meters long (obviously an overestimation), that would mean the area of the bottom pit is 12 square meters. For 10 cubic meters of remains to fit in this pit, the remains would have to be stacked 0.833 meters (2.7 foot) high. This is clearly not the case. If we even halve the volume of the remains that would be produced to only 5 cubic meters, then the remains would need to be stacked 0.42 meters (1.4 feet) high. The average human skull is 22.5 inches (1.875 ft, 57 cm) tall.
Last edited by Lamprecht on Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Photos of mass graves with burnt remains claimed to be from Yoram Haimi's digs at Sobibor

Postby Lamprecht » 1 year 6 months ago (Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:21 pm)

I personally contacted Haimi a few days ago. I just got a response. Firstly, my email:
Hello. I am researching Sobibor, Treblinka, and Belzec for a university project. Due to the recent archaeological excavations, I am trying to have a section for each of these camps describing the archaeological excavations. I came across this video, but I do not speak Hebrew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7b9jvMy41M

The following image is a screenshot from this presentation:

Image

I was wondering if you can give me any additional details on this photograph. The remains of how many individuals are contained in it? Do you have a higher resolution photograph that you can share with me? Is this image published in any report? What are the dimensions of this pit? Any other details you have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help.

Sincerely,
[REDACTED]
His response:
Hello Mr. [REDACTED],

All the remains of bones that you saw in the presentation were collected over a number of years, they were not found insitu and Under Rabbi Shudrich's instruction, they were brought to burial near Grave No. 6.

Best regards, Yoram

So this one, rather tiny pit (see images above, at most 2 x 6 meters) is all they have collected "over a number of years" and the Rabbi specifically said to take all these bones and line them up in a nice, presentable way at "Grave No. 6" which I guess is what corresponds to "Gr. 6" in this map:

Image

Remember: It is alleged that 250,000 Jews were gassed, burned in open air pyres, and buried at Sobibor. That would naturally produce 1.8 million pounds of burnt remains and 8 million teeth. Archeological digging at Sobibor began in 1997 with Professor Andrzej Kola, and yet the photo above is all we have seen of human remains at this camp, with the exception of this (6 bodies) which may not even be from the time period in question:

Image

There is no such thing as an undetectable, unexcavatable "huge mass grave"
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
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