Krema 2 Measurements

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Hektor
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Re: Krema 2 Measurements

Postby Hektor » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:44 am)

Zulu wrote:Lamprecht:
Please note the size of the elevator: 4 x 9 foot. It is claimed that 500,000 Jews were pulled up with this manually operated elevator.

The 1500 kg capacity Demag elevator which was planed to be installed at Krema II never was delivered according with Carlo Mattogno. So, the alleged 500,000 Jews killed there were supposed to have been lifted up to the the ovens' level with that improvised artifact of 300 kg payload (up to 5 corpses ).

Krema II. Elevator 300kg.png
Source: Jean-Claude Pressac, AUSCHWITZ: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, page 488



Besides the cremation capacity that elevator is indeed another bottle neck in the corpse disposal operations (additional handling, additional time wasting, additional maintenance, additional risks of complications of the procedure). If "industrial scale extermination" would have been the purpose of those buildings, they simply wouldn't be designed that way. Rather have the killing operation / gas chamber on a higher or at least even level with the cremation operations (for which an continuous incinerator would be used). Then move the corpses via a chute to the muffles/ovens. The crematoria are indeed designed to deal with the dead from occasional epidemics. The story of pulling the corpses with canes over the ground is another nonsensical feat of the narrative.

Would be great if we could get additional information and documentation around the issue of the elevators. Just to be exact, when formulating the arguments.

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Re: Krema 2 Measurements

Postby Zulu » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:42 am)

Hektor wrote:
Besides the cremation capacity that elevator is indeed another bottle neck in the corpse disposal operations (additional handling, additional time wasting, additional maintenance, additional risks of complications of the procedure). If "industrial scale extermination" would have been the purpose of those buildings, they simply wouldn't be designed that way. Rather have the killing operation / gas chamber on a higher or at least even level with the cremation operations (for which an continuous incinerator would be used). Then move the corpses via a chute to the muffles/ovens. The crematoria are indeed designed to deal with the dead from occasional epidemics. The story of pulling the corpses with canes over the ground is another nonsensical feat of the narrative.


I remember to having commented long time ago about "industrial killing" here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8392&p=63872#p63872

I find this kind of discussion a bit sterile. Indeed, if I find the assertion of Pr. Robert Faurisson on the technical feasibility [1] of mass gassings at least reckless, I also find that Mr. Berg puts too much emphasis on gassing as a mandatory alternative in the case of a hypothetical industrial extermination . I always thought that killing is not the problem in that case since the destruction of the bodies would be the bottleneck of the processing line. Moreover, IMO, even if it is technically possible, mass killing by poisonous gas seems too much demanding in safety measures and specific equipments. Anyway, for mass gassing, gases like CO or CO2 would be less problematic to manage than HCN or Sarin but I still think that an electrical system would be a cleaner and quicker alternative in the case of the "killing step" would be unavoidable.
I always have been inclined to believe that if the use of large industrial incinerators is implemented, then the step of killing is no longer necessary since you are enough crazy to think on implementing such things. I imagine that if lots of 100 people could be thrown into continuous incinerators of a capacity of about 20 t / h each[2], so it wouldn't make any difference if they are alive of not before their burning. Thinking about logistics, the system could be carried out by the use of a carousel of special containers camouflaged as bathrooms with a floor which could be opened directly onto the mouth of the incinerators.
Then, if each incinerator could process about 280 people/hour (average 70 kg) or 6720 p/day thus 4 incinerators could burn 26880 people per day, that means that 6 millions could be exterminated in less than 8 months. So, depending of the delay desired, incinerators capacities and number can be modulated accordingly with the budget allowed.
To me, the nonexistence of such kind of actual specific industrial incineration equipment at the so called "extermination camps" and, in opposite, the presence of multiple ovens with individual muffles in all main concentration camps including, with no difference notable, in the alleged "extermination" ones, based on similar civilian models, constitutes one of the major flaws of the myth. Not to mention the alleged cremation system supposedly carried out at the Reinhardt camps.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1 - It is often reckless of affirming that things are not "technically possible". For instance, it is "technically possible" to fulfill a swimming pool with a spoon, nevertheless it is not the more viable way to do so.
I would prefer a discussion about rationality/functionality or industrial feasibility/viability of a technical way to do things.
2- Industrial waste incinerators of 60t/h are on the market nowadays https://www.inciner8.com/waste-incinera ... inerators/
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Re: Krema 2 Measurements

Postby Zulu » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:59 am)

Zulu wrote:
I remember to having commented long time ago about "industrial killing" here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8392&p=63872#p63872

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1 - It is often reckless of affirming that things are not "technically possible". For instance, it is "technically possible" to fulfill a swimming pool with a spoon, nevertheless it is not the more viable way to do so.
I would prefer a discussion about rationality/functionality or industrial feasibility/viability of a technical way to do things.
2- Industrial waste incinerators of 60t/h are on the market nowadays https://www.inciner8.com/waste-incinera ... inerators/

It could be argued that Germans didn't have waste incinerators at this time.
This is the first waste incineration plant at Hamburg in 1895.
Erste_Müllverbrennungsanlage_Hamburg.jpeg
Erste_Müllverbrennungsanlage_Hamburg.jpeg (9.71 KiB) Viewed 183 times

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incin%C3% ... C3%A9chets

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Re: Krema 2 Measurements

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:05 pm)

Hektor wrote:Would be great if we could get additional information and documentation around the issue of the elevators. Just to be exact, when formulating the arguments.

We should have a thread (if one doesn't exist) specifically devoted to the Krema II elevator. Later tonight I will check to see what info is available and make one if it isn't already made.

Typically the excuse is "slave labor"
They just didn't care. So what if the gassings+cremations were so inefficient as to be 10 times more difficult than they needed to be. The Germans were evil and didn't care, just made the Jew slaves work 10x harder than necessary so as to kill them even more efficiently!

If these Sonderkommando jews really did pull up many thousands of gassed jews up that manual elevator day after day they would have mentioned it in their testimony.
"Oy vey the elevator. I hurt my back so many times pulling the gassed jews up that elevator. We asked the Nazis to install a better one and they just laughed at us and made us carry the bodies up without the elevator for a week, just to teach us a lesson! The rope was so coarse it rubbed my hands raw, anyone who wore gloves was given 10 hours in the spanking machine!"
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Krema 2 Measurements

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:08 pm)

Zulu wrote:
Zulu wrote:
I remember to having commented long time ago about "industrial killing" here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8392&p=63872#p63872

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1 - It is often reckless of affirming that things are not "technically possible". For instance, it is "technically possible" to fulfill a swimming pool with a spoon, nevertheless it is not the more viable way to do so.
I would prefer a discussion about rationality/functionality or industrial feasibility/viability of a technical way to do things.
2- Industrial waste incinerators of 60t/h are on the market nowadays https://www.inciner8.com/waste-incinera ... inerators/

It could be argued that Germans didn't have waste incinerators at this time.
This is the first waste incineration plant at Hamburg in 1895.
Erste_Müllverbrennungsanlage_Hamburg.jpeg
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incin%C3% ... C3%A9chets


See:
Auschwitz cremation ovens and the "four-story continuous operation corpse incineration oven" never built
viewtopic.php?t=12778

Image
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Krema 2 Measurements

Postby Hannover » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:57 pm)

We then have the issue of ventilation of Krema II and III to remove the alleged cyanide gas such that the alleged corpse movers (sonderkommandos) could flop the alleged 2000 corpses onto this 4 X 9 ft. elevator in the claimed few minutes, and then bring in the alleged next group who we're told were thinking they were going to get showers.

Besides the mentioned issue of Zyklon-B taking many hours to complete the release of its cyanide load, we then have 2000 alleged corpses laying about, covering the ventilation shafts which were at the bottom of Kremas II & III.

Here is a rendering of what the exterminationists claim:
Image
The vents are at the bottom of the fictitious massive pile of corpses, no 2.

Just one more example of the impossibility of the absurd claims.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Krema 2 Measurements

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:13 pm)

Hannover wrote:We then have the issue of ventilation of Krema II and III to remove the alleged cyanide gas such that the alleged corpse movers (sonderkommandos) could flop the alleged 2000 corpses onto this 4 X 9 ft. elevator in the claimed few minutes, and then bring in the alleged next group who we're told were thinking they were going to get showers.

More on the absurdity of the ventilation system:

Pressac’s Solution – 'Gas Chamber' Ventilation
viewtopic.php?t=5493
In order to stick to their dumb design, the Nazis even built gas chambers impossible to ventilate. Since hydrogen cyanide is lighter than air, air inputs at the top of a room and air outputs at the bottom of it would have failed to pump hydrogen cyanide out of such a "gas chamber." Such a ventilation system was the best way to keep hydrogen cyanide inside a room…or to pump cold decomposition gases (heavier than air) out of a morgue. Moreover, vents at the bottom of a room would have been often obstructed by the dead bodies of people haphazardly falling everywhere.


And the gassed corpses would be poisonous to touch, the cyanide would be evaporating off of their bodies for hours, days. Any room they were stored in would need to be evacuated or everyone wearing a gas mask (if that is even sufficient):
Case of cyanide poisoning of student in suicide / properties of HCN
viewtopic.php?t=12784
"Toxic fumes produced when a college student from Orange County died of an apparent suicide Monday forced the evacuation of an Iowa dormitory and the hospitalization of nine people, authorities said. Carl T. Grimm, 20, a sophomore from Placentia, ingested potassium cyanide [in pill form] about 7:30 a.m. in his dormitory room at Grinnell College, a private liberal arts school about 50 miles east of Des Moines, Iowa, Grinnell Fire Chief Jerry Barns said. Four paramedics who responded to the call at Younkers Hall came in contact with fumes from the poison, as did two college staff members and three other students... “When potassium cyanide is mixed with water or mixed with acid, it creates hydrogen cyanide gas, which is quite toxic. Eighty percent of the body is made of water,” said Mickey Munley, the college’s director of public relations."

Germar Rudolf, The Chemistry of Auschwitz, pg 23:
"hydrogen cyanide is also a persistent poison. It adheres wherever it is utilized, especially in a moist environment. Deadly cyanide gas continues to evaporate slowly from moist objects for hours and days, involving a long-term environmental hazard where sufficient ventilation cannot be assured" https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/02-tcoa.pdf
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Krema 2 Measurements

Postby Louis S » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:53 pm)

Lamprecht said:
That is the undressing room anyway, here is the alleged homicidal gas chamber. Possibly it can give you insights on how to interpret that other image (multiple photos because it is also hard to make out):
4B6932CC-5A95-48BD-84AB-F798B33E82AC.jpeg
Thanks, that image is much clearer.
EDIT: I also suggest the table at the bottom here:
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0286.shtml
There seems to be a bit of conflict regarding the chart on PDHN and the information I have collected. Nonetheless, it is an adequate reference point.

LS


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