The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

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thedisbeliever
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The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby thedisbeliever » 4 months 1 week ago (Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:14 am)

There is a lot of media coverage of the trial against former SS guard Bruno Dey who was 17 when he was a guard at Stutthof. Over the last weeks I've read numerous articles. In one of them he more or less says that the "gas chamber" there was a homicidal gas chamber.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... as-chamber

A 93-year-old former guard at the Nazi Stutthof concentration camp has testified at his trial that he once saw people being led into the gas chamber, followed by screaming and banging sounds behind the locked door.


I'm obviously not convinced he is telling the truth here, but he may be. As far as I know, the Stutthof "gas chamber" is one of few that could actually in theory have been used for homicidal gassing. It was a delousing unit after all, so in theory I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible to lock some people in there and gas them. I do not believe it (yet?), but it could, as far as I can tell, be true. Not on a hoaxter-scale, obviously, but for the sake of the argument, let's say it was used just a few times.

Here's a photo of the original building. I don't know when it was taken, but probably a while ago as it's black/white and long before it was converted to a Holocaust theme park.

Image

Same building, same angle, after conversion:

Image

First thing to notice is that they have totally remodelled it, as usual. The entire entrance is changed and rebuilt, and they have added a steel door.

Here's another photo, probably taken around the same time as the first one (perhaps same shoot?) Who is the man, and what does the text say? Does anyone know the origin of these? The first one can be found on the official stutthof site, but no credit/info that I could find.

Again, it's not hard to see that they totally rebuilt it. Why did they change the entire entrance instead of just adding a door? Are there any other old photos?

Image

Finally another revealing photo:

Image

Here we see the inside, with a wreath covering the draining hole (?) in the floor, while showing the obviously fake "hole in the roof". There was absolutely no need for that here, as this was indeed a functioning "gas chamber" It has a heating unit (as can be seen) outside, and no need for that added hole RIGHT above the hole in the floor. As far as I understand, it would function by blowing in zyklon B through that "hole" in the "bench" which is now without cover, it was probably covered with a grid of some kind? It *could* be that the hole in the roof is actually some kind of ventilation, as I'm not too familiar with how this delousing chamber actually functioned, but it would be a strange place to have ventilation (hard to access) so until further I assume it is another hole added for propaganda-purposes to fit with the narrative.

What do you guys think of this story / gas chamber? Of course a number of Jews claim that they are eye-witnesses to gassings, but... jewish eye-witnesses, well. There are also some other witnesses who have claimed different things, but there is no way to disprove all of them, even though some have already been shown to be frauds.

https://www.jta.org/2020/01/08/global/f ... -holocaust

“Watch out everyone, I’m going to forgive him,” Loth, 76, said as he approached Dey, who admits to having been a guard at the Stutthof camp near Gdansk, which today is in Poland.

But Loth may have exaggerated his story — he was born into a Christian family and was likely never in a camp.


Sigh....

Are there people/inmates who have said that they never witnessed anything? This "gas chamber" was in the middle of the camp, and for everyone to see.

Are there more information or old photos?

I know that the exterminationist-story is full of holes and that it at "best" would be very limited real use of this to kill people. I do not believe it, but it is possible (?) that it has some truth to it, so I wonder if anyone have more info of this, as this trial is getting a lot of coverage?

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Re: The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 1 week ago (Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:03 pm)

Suggested:
Bruno Dey, ex-guard at Stutthof goes on trial at age 93
viewtopic.php?t=12821

[Book] Concentration Camp Stutthof—Its History & Function in National Socialist Jewish Policy
PDF: https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/04-ccs.pdf
HTML: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/ccs/



The alleged homicidal gas chamber of Stutthof:

Image
and:
Image

- Just imagine Jews marching to their death here. It's not even disguised as any sort of shower room. Just a single brick building in some random part of the camp. Being marched over there and forced into the room, they would have began panicking and tried to fight back/escape.

- At the end of the war as Soviet troops were advancing, the crematorium at Stutthof was destroyed. Then why was the alleged homicidal gas chamber, which would have been far more incriminating, left intact? See: viewtopic.php?t=12617

- Notice the blue staining on the outside walls. I thought Prussian blue only stains a few micrometers thick? :lol:

- Notice how allegedly half a million people were gassed in one room at Auschwitz, but there is no blue staining. The official story claims that 65,000 people died at Stutthof of all causes, yet the gas chamber is covered in blue stains.

- Supposedly, some gassings took place in a railway car as well. There is no evidence for this, but it actually would have made more sense that what is laughably alleged at other places. FPB discusses this here: http://archive.is/0U5Nw

- It is also claimed that injections of petrol to the heart were used at Stutthof to kill prisoners. Who makes this stuff up? :roll:

- The only "evidence" for homicidal gas chambers at Stutthof are a handful of "eyewitness testimonies" - sometimes just the mere repetition of hearsay. These same testimonies typically claim impossibly high cremation rates and other absurdities, proving that these prisoners were just lying as revenge against their captors.

- "Homicidal Gas chamber" rumors proliferated throughout the concentration camp system, especially Auschwitz. The plainly visible delousing chamber - which was quite close to the crematoria - would have been the perfect target to fit in with these rumors.

- Thousands of death records for Stutthof survived, none of these documents (or any for that matter) suggest any gassings of prisoners. In just one month - February 1945 - over 4,000 inmates died per day, mainly due to typhus. This is why the delousing chamber existed, to kill typhus-spreading body louse on clothing and bedding.

There isn't much to it. This 93 year old guy - who was just a teenager at the time and certainly doesn't remember much at all - has been put on trial in a country where "Holocaust denial" is a crime. There's no evidence that even one prisoner was ever killed in that room, all we have is a few liewitness testimonies. I'm also not surprised if a few former prisoners come out to the trial to say that they also saw the gas chambers, juts to get their 15 minutes of fame.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
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Re: The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby Hektor » 4 months 1 week ago (Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:08 am)

But Loth may have exaggerated his story — he was born into a Christian family and was likely never in a camp.


Lying about once ancestry isn't "exaggerated", it's giving false testimony

German book on Stutthof:
https://archive.org/details/Konzentrati ... f/mode/2up
Earlier commentary on Stutthof gas chamber:
https://archive.org/details/historische ... 5/mode/2up
https://archive.org/details/historische ... 4/mode/2up

Commentary on the trial against Bruno Dey (in German):
Image
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZVJ0204ObInN/
Image
https://www.bitchute.com/video/AjEB3jDTdNV7/

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Re: The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby thedisbeliever » 4 months 1 week ago (Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:40 pm)

Hektor wrote:
But Loth may have exaggerated his story — he was born into a Christian family and was likely never in a camp.


Lying about once ancestry isn't "exaggerated", it's giving false testimony

German book on Stutthof:
https://archive.org/details/Konzentrati ... f/mode/2up
Earlier commentary on Stutthof gas chamber:
https://archive.org/details/historische ... 5/mode/2up
https://archive.org/details/historische ... 4/mode/2up

Commentary on the trial against Bruno Dey (in German):
Image
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZVJ0204ObInN/
Image
https://www.bitchute.com/video/AjEB3jDTdNV7/


Thanks for the links!

I was already more than half-done on the book, but most so far was known. As most of holohoax-lore, it's ridiculous to believe/assume that the Germans would use Zyklon B / gas chambers instead of just taking them on a train-ride and shoot them in a ditch, but the old man claims (or so the articles say) that he did see a group of people being led to that house with screams and death (implied) following.

Of course there are a number of reasons why the old, frail man would just lie here. If the questions are asked directly, he would break another law by actually denying or minimizing the "holocaust" in Germany, and spending his last years in some kind of prison (not impossible that this will be the outcome) does not sound very tempting for just being a guard in the SS. The "official narrative" is just as absurd here as in the other camps, but if you take his statement isolated, it would at least be possible in this camp / facility to maybe gas a batch or two of Jews. Extremely unlikely and stupid, definitely, but possible in theory.

Because this "gas chamber" was located right in the middle of the camp, an inmate saying there were no gassings would be a very believeable witness. If many inmates claim the same, all the better. Most "accounts" from inmates I've read include "gas chambers" but almost all are second hand, like "every day 100 Jewish women were sent on a train and we all just knew that they were sent (???) to the gas chambers".
The usual hearsay-theme where people are not necessarily lying, but just repeat "common knowledge" among inmates (even though some of it is absurd today, like saying they were sent away in trains to be gassed when no real historian claims that ever happened as far as I know, and they supposedly had a functional and well-used gas chamber on site).

I'll finish the book and videos :)

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Re: The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 5 days ago (Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:14 am)

Another liewitness exposed, causing serious issues for this show trial. I wonder if he merely wanted attention, or someone told him to do it?
And Dey claims he was conscripted, and although he claims he saw people going to be gassed, he had nothing to do with it and didn't mistreat any prisoners. I think there's a possibility he will not be charged with any crime here, especially since he payed lip service to the "gas chamber" nonsense. If he does get convinced, I would hope he comes out to say that the gas chambers were complete nonsense.
Trial of German SS guard in chaos after prominent witness withdraws from case

It has emerged Moshe Peter Loth, who publicly forgave the 93-year-old suspect Bruno Dey last year, is not the grandson of a Jewish woman gassed at Stutthof

January 17, 2020 11:42

The trial of Bruno Dey, a 93-year-old former SS guard at the Stutthof concentration camp, took a bizarre turn this week as a co-plaintiff withdrew from the case after inconsistencies were found in the story of his background.

An investigation conducted by the German newsweekly Der Spiegel found that Moshe Peter Loth, 76, had not been imprisoned in Stutthof as an infant, as he had previously claimed, and neither was he the grandson of a Jewish woman who died in the gas chambers there.
...
Previously, Mr Loth had also submitted documents to Yad Vashem, claiming that his Jewish grandmother, Anna, had been gassed to death at Stutthof.

But none of the above was true, Der Spiegel found.

He was in fact born Peter Oswald Loth on September 2, 1943 in a normal hospital in Tiegenhof, today Nowy Dwór, Gdanski — known at the time as Danzig.
...
Helene was indeed imprisoned briefly at Stutthof, though prison records state her nationality as “R.D.”, meaning Reichsdeutsche, an ethnic German living in the German Reich

Helene was held there for four weeks and released on April 1, 1943, months prior to Loth’s birth.
...
Stepping away from the case, he claimed that “all the things I said in the trial are true, to the best of my knowledge”, adding that he had spent decades researching his family history.

He pushed back against what he termed a “media circus of false accusations”.
...
In December, the 93-year-old defendant testified that though he had observed people being taken to the gas chambers, he neither shot nor was violent towards any prisoners.

His job, he said, was to watch the perimeter fence to ensure no one escaped.

Bruno Dey reiterated that he had been a conscript.

“In my heart, I was not an SS man”, he told the court. “I do not see myself as guilty”.

The trial continues. A verdict is not expected before the end of February.
https://www.thejc.com/news/world/trial- ... s-1.495554
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby Christian » 4 months 4 days ago (Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:02 am)

Interesting is the mail from the so-called extermination camp taken from german wikipedia.

The first letter is from November 1944 and the prisoner writes that he has landed here after all. The recipient wants to arrange for his belongings and money to be sent here immediately. He also asks for cigarette paper and an old pipe. His wife would like to be informed of his whereabouts. He sends his best regards.

The second letter is dated December 1944: "My dear ones! Although my thoughts are always with you, they are especially with you today on Christmas Eve. I wonder if you will also think of me a little bit? I wish you all a Merry & Healthy Christmas. May peace & unity be with you & may you [... lower half is missing] Have a special heart. Greetings to Ine, Erna and everyone who should ask for me. Can you send me some bread? + smokes as well"

Apparently, with tobacco you can even somehow bear the unbearable.
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Re: The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 4 days ago (Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:56 am)

Christian wrote:Apparently, with tobacco you can even somehow bear the unbearable.

Well, to be fair, that is exactly how it works with tobacco :lol:

Even more curious though is that you can somehow smoke cigarettes while emptying a gas chamber full of HCN, according to Rudolf Hoess.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby Zulu » 4 months 3 days ago (Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:29 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:Suggested:
Bruno Dey, ex-guard at Stutthof goes on trial at age 93
viewtopic.php?t=12821

[Book] Concentration Camp Stutthof—Its History & Function in National Socialist Jewish Policy
PDF: https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/04-ccs.pdf
HTML: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/ccs/



The alleged homicidal gas chamber of Stutthof:

Image
and:
Image

- Notice the blue staining on the outside walls. I thought Prussian blue only stains a few micrometers thick? :lol:

Actually, if exterminationists insist in qualifying that room as an "homicidal gas chamber" they must admit that all their arguments for explaining the lack of Prussian blue on the walls of Leichenkeller 1 at Krema II at Birkenau are dead. So, they face a big dilemma here...

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Re: The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 3 days ago (Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:04 pm)

Zulu wrote:Actually, if exterminationists insist in qualifying that room as an "homicidal gas chamber" they must admit that all their arguments for explaining the lack of Prussian blue on the walls of Leichenkeller 1 at Krema II at Birkenau are dead. So, they face a big dilemma here...

I guess the excuse is that it was primarily a delousing chamber but they also sometimes gassed human beings in it as well.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: The current Stutthof Trial and alleged "gas chambers"

Postby Zulu » 4 months 2 days ago (Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:20 am)

Lamprecht wrote:
Zulu wrote:Actually, if exterminationists insist in qualifying that room as an "homicidal gas chamber" they must admit that all their arguments for explaining the lack of Prussian blue on the walls of Leichenkeller 1 at Krema II at Birkenau are dead. So, they face a big dilemma here...

I guess the excuse is that it was primarily a delousing chamber but they also sometimes gassed human beings in it as well.

OK. Actually, they were wrong to choose the morgues of the Kremas for their alleged "homicidal gas chambers". Had they preferred the former delousing chambers at BW5 they would have been more credible. "Gazkammer" is even mentioned on the drawings and it wasn't a "secret code" for "shower room". Bad luck.


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