Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

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Callahan
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Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby Callahan » 1 year 1 month ago (Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:27 pm)

For those still fairly new to this topic (like me), my understanding has become that this is a crucial component of the Auschwitz extermination narrative, in that approximately 300,000 Hungarian Jews are now claimed to have been murdered in gas chambers at Auschwitz (this number has been revised down over the years). Approximately 400,000 had arrived at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944 (a number now generally agreed upon by opposing sides of the debate), with about 100,000 considered fit-for-work. Those fit-for-work became registered at the camp and are thus accounted for. For those not deemed fit-for-work (non-employable), the consensus is lacking.

The point of contention between Revisionists and the orthodoxy regarding the 300,000 non-employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz is, in my opinion, very similar to that of the conundrum regarding the Jews sent to Aktion Reinhard camps: what actually happened to them?

The orthodox narrative gives one simple answer: they were gassed! Sounds simple enough... but photographic evidence, chemical/forensic evidence, horribly inconsistent testimony, and an abundance of official documentation which contradicts any policy of 'gassing' strongly suggests otherwise.

As far as the Revisionist narrative, the answer is also quite simple: they were sent elsewhere! The specifics here, however, are where things get foggy for Revisionism as well. What I have read in the literature thus far is that there really is no clear documentation which might answer this question. What I am still wondering is, according to the Revisionist view... why not?

Some considerations:

- Did the Germans just not care to thoroughly document these people since
(1) the purpose of the Hungarian transports was work deployment, and/or
(2) the non-employable were to be sent elsewhere immediately and thus seen irrelevant to camp operations?
- Is there policy or transport documentation that should be present but is missing?


Also, I read in Crowell's discussion of Hungarian transports from ca. 2001 that there were at least 520 locations (incl. 386 camps) where Hungarian Jews were ultimately held in German territories throughout the war. But this doesn't really tell where non-employable Jews would have most likely been sent from Auschwitz. What would make the most sense?

- How many different camps/locations/etc. could have even been considered as potential for masses of Jewish women/children/elderly (e.g. how many family camps or similar)?
- Would it have made more sense for them to be sent in small groups to many locations, or large groups to fewer? What might be some criteria used to have made this decision?

Where are the hungry, Hungary Jews??!

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby borjastick » 1 year 1 month ago (Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:14 am)

Callahan you are right that this issue of the missing Hungarian jews has been used by those who wish to promote the holocaust as fact but one really only needs to use logic and practical issues such as body disposal to see the truth.

Where are the 300,000 bodies or their cremains. Indeed how could those 300,000 been cremated as well as any others in the time frame? Just do the maths on it. Each body would take one hour plus to cremate down to a sufficient level to bury but not to light ash. 300,000 times one hour times the number of available ovens means it simply is not true to claim they were killed and disposed of. It would take nearly three years to cremate all those and the necessary cremains of these people would be mountainous.

Game over. They either weren't not there in such numbers, which is my theory, or they went into and out of Auschwitz pretty quickly.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby Callahan » 1 year 1 month ago (Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:55 am)

borjastick wrote:Callahan you are right that this issue of the missing Hungarian jews has been used by those who wish to promote the holocaust as fact but one really only needs to use logic and practical issues such as body disposal to see the truth.

Where are the 300,000 bodies or their cremains. Indeed how could those 300,000 been cremated as well as any others in the time frame? Just do the maths on it. Each body would take one hour plus to cremate down to a sufficient level to bury but not to light ash. 300,000 times one hour times the number of available ovens means it simply is not true to claim they were killed and disposed of. It would take nearly three years to cremate all those and the necessary cremains of these people would be mountainous.

Game over. They either weren't not there in such numbers, which is my theory, or they went into and out of Auschwitz pretty quickly.

I am not in doubt that the hoax is a sinking ship... it would just be nice to flatten it out at every level. Any extra documentation reinforcing what we already know is always a plus, and might help accelerate the inevitable.

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby Lamprecht » 1 year 1 month ago (Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:48 am)

From the Auschwitz records:
Total of Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz, May, 1944-October, 1944

May 8548
June 3981
July 6543
Aug 3881
Sept 163
Oct 1
____________
TOTAL 23134

Total number of Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz, May-October, 1944
23,134

Note: Number of Hungarian Jews claimed sent to Auschwitz, May-October,1944:

Lucy Dawidowicz. The War Against the Jews, New York, 1975. 450,000

Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews, New York, 1985. 180,000


Hungarian Jews transferred from Auschwitz, May-October, 1944
May 2963
June 5934
July 9630
Aug 1500
Sept 1300
Oct 200
__________
21,527

Total number of Hungarian Jews entering Auschwitz, May-October, 1944:
23,134

Total number of Hungarian Jews transferred from Auschwitz, May-October, 1944:
21,527

Total number of Hungarian Jews remaining in Auschwitz after October, 1944:
1,607
viewtopic.php?p=94680#p94680
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby borjastick » 1 year 1 month ago (Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:22 am)

Lamprecht wrote:From the Auschwitz records:
Total of Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz, May, 1944-October, 1944

May 8548
June 3981
July 6543
Aug 3881
Sept 163
Oct 1
____________
TOTAL 23134

Total number of Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz, May-October, 1944
23,134

Note: Number of Hungarian Jews claimed sent to Auschwitz, May-October,1944:

Lucy Dawidowicz. The War Against the Jews, New York, 1975. 450,000

Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews, New York, 1985. 180,000


Hungarian Jews transferred from Auschwitz, May-October, 1944
May 2963
June 5934
July 9630
Aug 1500
Sept 1300
Oct 200
__________
21,527

Total number of Hungarian Jews entering Auschwitz, May-October, 1944:
23,134

Total number of Hungarian Jews transferred from Auschwitz, May-October, 1944:
21,527

Total number of Hungarian Jews remaining in Auschwitz after October, 1944:
1,607
viewtopic.php?p=94680#p94680


So I was correct in assuming they weren't there in the first place. On what basis does Davidowizc claim 450k? My guess is the usual route of saying those who were good for work etc were entered into the records the others perished immediately. But that doesn't prove they were there. To move 300k-400k people across from Hungary into Auschwitz during a war would be an enormous undertaking. Where's the proof?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby Callahan » 1 year 1 month ago (Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:15 pm)

borjastick wrote:So I was correct in assuming they weren't there in the first place. On what basis does Davidowizc claim 450k? My guess is the usual route of saying those who were good for work etc were entered into the records the others perished immediately. But that doesn't prove they were there. To move 300k-400k people across from Hungary into Auschwitz during a war would be an enormous undertaking. Where's the proof?

I am under the impression that is has been fairly well-established that there were many non-registered inmates (as in, intended to be transported to other locations). The Hungarian Lt. Col. Ferenczy confirmed that a total of approx. 435,000 Jews on 147 trains were deported from Hungary between May-July 1944. Mattogno pointed this out back in 1987, which prompted Danuta Czech having to include a rather conspicuous revision to her 1989 2nd edition of Kalendarium. So based on the registered inmates and other camp documentation used to estimate the total number of these transports which were received at Auschwitz, Mattogno and many others have tended to agree that 400,000 appears correct. Others (e.g. Butz) have disagreed, claiming that certain documents may have been forged or statements were false, but Mattogno considers this "astonishing" since it would entail an international deception effort also involving the Hungarian government, etc at the time these events are alleged. IOW, quite unlikely.

https://codoh.com/library/document/357/

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby ginger » 1 year 1 month ago (Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:08 pm)

This story of the Hungarian Jews was a part of the fairly recent trial of Oskar Groening - that 300,000 Hungarian Jews were gassed at Auschwitz in 60 days during the summer of 1944 - so the Nazis had to dispose of 5000 a day. The camp would need about 400 cremations ovens to handle the load - but the number of cremation ovens in operation was about 40.

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby Hannover » 1 year 1 month ago (Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:45 pm)

ginger wrote:This story of the Hungarian Jews was a part of the fairly recent trial of Oskar Groening - that 300,000 Hungarian Jews were gassed at Auschwitz in 60 days during the summer of 1944 - so the Nazis had to dispose of 5000 a day. The camp would need about 400 cremations ovens to handle the load - but the number of cremation ovens in operation was about 40.

In fact there was a total 52 muffles of Auschwitz, never used simultaneously.

38 is the most that were ever online simultaneously.

The 6 at Auschwitz I were taken out of action as soon as the new ones at Birkenau came online. These were in turn liable to long periods of breakdowns and even idleness.

more at:

'Roberto Muehlenkamp & 'Holocaust' Industry cite incinerator patent application as proof of impossible cremation numbers'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11266

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby ginger » 1 year 1 month ago (Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:19 pm)

Hi Hannover

Even 52 ovens could not have handled the huge number of corpses that must have been in the camp according to the story of the gassing of the Hungarian Jews. I use Carlos Mattogno's article on the cremation ovens of Auschwitz for my calculation; he believed that the work day at the crematoria was 12 hours long - so 12 corpses per oven with about 40 ovens working meant maybe 480 to 500 corpses could be cremated each day.

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby Callahan » 1 year 1 month ago (Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:58 pm)

None of the observations support the outrageous claims of 'gassing'. This much has been confirmed.

But I do think there is still reason to confront the implications of the documents acknowledged by top Revisionists as being presumably authentic... that there are more than a quarter million Hungarian Jews that are thus far essentially unaccounted for.

This being the case, I am just interested in knowing what are the most likely locations they may have been sent to. I do not believe there is anything remotely resembling a Revisionist consensus on this yet (and I do not necessarily expect one to appear), but I am curious to know what the possibilities could have been.

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby Lamprecht » 1 year 1 month ago (Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:40 pm)

Callahan wrote:there are more than a quarter million Hungarian Jews that are thus far essentially unaccounted for

Unaccounted for, in what way? "Hungarian Jews" or "Jews who happened to live in Hungary"? How are they "unaccounted for" precisely?

Revisionists have written extensively on the subject. For example:

What Happened to the Jews Who Were Deported to Auschwitz But Were Not Registered There? Insights on the 1944 Deportations of Hungarian Jews
https://codoh.com/library/document/2915/

The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944: A preliminary account
https://codoh.com/library/document/357/ and viewtopic.php?t=287

The Hoax of the Twentieth Century - Chapter 5: The Hungarian Jews
HTML: https://archive.is/yOdUQ#selection-19365.0-19365.10 or https://web.archive.org/web/20200310032 ... re_link-62
PDF: https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/07-thottc.pdf

Arthur Butz: On the 1944 Deportations of Hungarian Jews - A Reply to Jürgen Graf
https://codoh.com/library/document/2917/

Transfers to the Reich: The Unregistered Inmates of Auschwitz
https://codoh.com/library/document/85/

Beyond Auschwitz: New Light on the Fate of the Hungarian Jews
https://codoh.com/library/document/2965/

Letters: Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz and Beyond: An Exchange
https://codoh.com/library/document/2982/

And from Kues:
"2.2.3. The Jews of Hungary

The deportation of Jews from Hungary did not begin until May 1944. Since the German-controlled areas in the east were shrinking at a rapid rate during that year, it is extremely unlikely that any of the Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz-Birkenau ever reached the occupied eastern territories[15], with two exceptions: 1) a transport of some thousand Hungarian women which was sent to Latvia, and of which approximately 700 were later transferred by ship from Kaunas to Stutthof on 4 August 1944;[16] 2) a transport of 500 Hungarian women, possibly from the Transylvanian town of Bistritz (Bistriţa) that arrived in the Estonian camp Vaivara in June 1944.[17] It is not impossible that the latter group consisted of a subset of the first group, as one source states the Jewesses from Bistritz arrived via Riga.[18] Two further special cases of Hungarian or nominally Hungarian Jews reaching the east already in 1941 will be discussed below in Section 3.3.3."

- Evidence for the Presence of “Gassed” Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, Part 1
https://codoh.com/library/document/3111/


There is no evidence that they were gassed.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Re: Non-Employable Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz

Postby Hannover » 1 year 1 month ago (Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:49 pm)

Callahan wrote:None of the observations support the outrageous claims of 'gassing'. This much has been confirmed.

But I do think there is still reason to confront the implications of the documents acknowledged by top Revisionists as being presumably authentic... that there are more than a quarter million Hungarian Jews that are thus far essentially unaccounted for.

This being the case, I am just interested in knowing what are the most likely locations they may have been sent to. I do not believe there is anything remotely resembling a Revisionist consensus on this yet (and I do not necessarily expect one to appear), but I am curious to know what the possibilities could have been.

Hey, it's they, "The Holocaust Industry", who says they went to immense mass graves .... which do not exist.
There is no proof they are 'missing'.
Jews simply went where Jews are.

You should try:

‘ Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more’
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

What Happened to the Jews Who Were Deported to Auschwitz But Were Not Registered There? Insights on the 1944 Deportations of Hungarian Jews, By Jürgen Graf: https://codoh.com/library/document/2915/?lang=en
and:
http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hu ... ebate.html
and:
Juergen Graf : The Fate of Unregistered Auschwitz Inmates:


- Hannover

No alleged immense human remains to be seen in alleged known locations, no 'holocaust'
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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