Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

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Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby stinkytoes » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:40 pm)

First timer here. I've read Ron Unz's thoughtful article and Thomas Dalton's book. Unz and Dalton convinced me that there are major red flags in the traditionalist narrative, but there is one nagging question I still have.

There does not seem to be any disagreement that millions of people (Jews etc) were sent to concentration camps in Germany and Poland during WW II.

The revisionists say that Hitler intended to deport them (to lands formerly held by the USSR I guess). That is why the camps were mostly in Poland -- he was pushing them East. However, is there any evidence that such deportations were ever carried out? If not, why not? Is there someone -- a survivor -- who said something like "I was at Treblinka for two months and then I was shipped out to Russia." Why were some survivors at Auschwitz for years if the whole point was to deport them? Is there evidence from reconnaisance photos showing trains filled with people traveling from the camps in an Eastward direction?

If not, what was the point of the camps and what was the point of putting most of them in Poland? Were they simply labor camps? And what happened to all the concentration camp prisoners if they were neither deported nor deliberately murdered? If millions went into the camps and a much smaller number than that were liberated in spring 1945, where did they all go?

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Hannover » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:16 pm)

* This has been handled repeatedly here, but anyway here's some starter info. for you, others will chime in no doubt.

* Remember, that the alleged murder weapons / 'gas chambers' supposedly used were scientifically impossible.
see:
The alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process reviewed and demolished here., must reading:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11143&p=83723&hilit=model+asmarques#p83723
and:
The Rudolf Report, Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz: http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html
and:
Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the 'Gas Chambers' of Auschwitz and Birkenau'
by master chemist Germar Rudolf
: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html

*You're asking us "what happened to them"?
"The Holocaust Industry" tells us, aka: lies for influence, power, & profit.
They say that 6,000,000 Jews and 5,000,000 'others' went to immense mass graves in known locations like those below, yet no such remain exist.

posted previously:
* staged Sobibor ‘monument’ / prop supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 in fact do not exist.Image

* This is what they actual found, a laughable "mass grave" of maybe 5 people at Sobibor in which not even the date, cause of death, ethnicity has been determined. LOL
Image

* Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.
Image

* Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.1M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.
Image

* Where did they really go? They went where Jews are, simple as that. Some examples:

After the war, many Jews stayed in Europe and many others scattered throughout the world, settling in nearly sixty countries. So it was that in the late 1990s the teams put in charge by Steven Spielberg of gathering survivors’ testimonies had to go to nearly sixty different countries to record the said testimonies on video.

* Recall the massive Displaced Persons Camps after the war.
Influx OF 3,000,000 JEWS; Tells Newspaper Executives in Germany That Refugees Have Created Grave Problem, JUNE 24, 1946
download/file.php?id=2160
https://archive.is/Jw6EM

* Also recall the alleged, but bogus "death marches" out of the camps. It's a known fact that Jews & others were given a choice to stay (at Auschwitz for example) or retreat with the Germans. Most by far chose to leave with the Germans. That alone demolished the fake narrative.

more:
Jews Transited through Treblinka, By Panagiotis Heliotis : https://codoh.com/library/document/6649/?lang=en
and:
* WJC's Stephen Wise said 1,250,000 - 1,500,000 Polish Jews homeless in Europe, outside of Poland, & alive after WWII: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191
and:
J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more’
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272
and:
What Happened to the Jews Who Were Deported to Auschwitz But Were Not Registered There? Insights on the 1944 Deportations of Hungarian Jews, By Jürgen Graf: https://codoh.com/library/document/2915/?lang=en
and:
The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944, by Carlo Mattogno: https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?lang=en
and:
Evidence for the Presence of “Gassed” Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, part 1
http://codoh.com/library/document/3111/?lang=en
and:
Evidence for the Presence of "Gassed" Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, Part 2
http://codoh.com/library/document/3127/?lang=en
and:
Evidence for the Presence of “Gassed” Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, Part 3
http://codoh.com/library/document/3166/?lang=en

Welcome, Hannover

No alleged immense human remains of millions to be seen in alleged known locations, no 'holocaust'
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Sannhet » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:32 pm)

stinkytoes wrote:Why were some survivors at Auschwitz for years if the whole point was to deport them? ... what was the point of the camps and what was the point of putting most of them in Poland?

That's an easy one. Auschwitz was a labor camp, not a transit camp.

The transit camps were built at places where the railways changed gauge, from western-european gauge to Russian gauge. A train coming from Poland could not just continue on into Russia at leisure. In other words, there would have to be off-loading anyway. These were the ideal sites for transit camps, given the gauge-change problem. It's similar to how settlements historically develop at river crossing points or other places where people have to pass through and stop for a time. My understanding is that is why the so-called Aktion Reinhardt camps, all temporary facilities, were sited where they were.

Think about this, why would locations of pure extermination camps be built by coincidence at locations where railway-gauge changes? That is not even close to the most logical explanation. Was it to fool the Jews? How were the Jews, who were being deported, who were stuck inside the rail cars, supposed to know where railway-gauges change, and been pacified by this knowledge. Even if they were unusually well-versed in railways and the gauge-change problem, they weren't carrying smartphones with Google Maps to know exactly where they were.

If you have ever been on a long-distance, international train ride, you too many have had to deal with a railway-gauge change situation, and you may not have noticed it, as a passenger inside, or even been aware of it. This is still a problem today in places. Here is a 2015 article, "Gauge-changer installed at Belarus-Poland border."

stinkytoes wrote:where did they all go?

"Where did they all go" can be asked of a lot of people in the war, and in some cases of entire (sub-)populations in parts of Europe. The answer is: Some died; some were deported and reestablished themselves at their new locations; some hung around a while and transient lives for a period of a few years (Displaced Persons), and eventually found a way to a wealthy nation like the US, as refugees, or etc. The recently deceased Dario Gabbai, who was held for a time at Treblinka, ended up in California by 1949 and appeared in Hollywood movies in the early 1950s, and led a life in California of relative luxury compared to what he would've gotten hanging around somewhere in eastern Europe.

is there any evidence that such deportations were ever carried out?

Yes. There are many references in German documents. Consider this one, from chapter 9 of "Treblinka, Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?" by Carlo Mattogno and Jurgen Graf:

[T]he arrival of at least one transport from the Warsaw Ghetto at a location east of Treblinka has been documented beyond any question. On 31 July 1942, the Reichskommissar for White Russia, Wilhelm Kube, sent a telegram to the Reichskommissar for the Ostland, Heinrich Lohse, in which he protested the dispatching of a transport of "1,000 Jews from Warsaw to work at Minsk," because this would lead to danger of epidemics and an increase in partisan activity.[839]

On August 5, 1942, Lohse responded in a letter with the subject "Import of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw," in which he indicated that

"the practical realization of the solution of the Jewish problem is exclusively a matter for the police."

The responsibility "for the orderly realization of the measures," was also that of the police, so that protests were not permissible.[840]

Kube took up the problem anew in a letter written on August 17, 1942, to Lohse (again on the subject "Import of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw") and requested further instructions, since he wished to make "fundamental decisions concerning the taking in of further Jews into White Russia as a police matter."[841]


http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/10.html

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby borjastick » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:45 am)

Let's look at Treblinka or more specifically Malkinia Junction just back up the track where it is said hundreds of thousands of jews were transited through. Are there any pictures of any kind showing these trains. Not that I know of.

How about air photos of trains heading east out of Belzec, Majdanek etc. From aircraft? No. Why is that then? Surely this means they weren't transited through and eastwards into the hinterland of western Russia. No not at all. It means that there was a war on and even if known about these transit venues weren't seen as anything sinister and certainly not worth the effort and risk to fly photo planes overhead.

There are lots of events and flashpoints in the second world war that are not on camera. Nothing to see here.

Why did they not emerge from the aftermath? Well they sort of did. Many thousands were on the claimed 'death marches' which were anything but. Over a million jews appeared out of the mist at the end of the war and had to be accommodated by General Patton.

Jews have always been a wandering tribe of nothingness. They tell stories they exist by dint of the other non jews around them who accept until such time as...

There was total communist control over the eastern parts of europe after the war which led to the Berlin wall and the cold war. Just how would all these jewish survivors contact who they think might be interested in them beyond the wall?

Finally where do you think the land grab theftists who occupied Palestine came from?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby stinkytoes » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:26 am)

Hannover wrote:* This has been handled repeatedly here, but anyway here's some starter info. for you, others will chime in no doubt.

* Remember, that the alleged murder weapons / 'gas chambers' supposedly used were scientifically impossible.
see:
The alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process reviewed and demolished here., must reading:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11143&p=83723&hilit=model+asmarques#p83723
and:
The Rudolf Report, Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz: http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html
and:
Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the 'Gas Chambers' of Auschwitz and Birkenau'
by master chemist Germar Rudolf
: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html

*You're asking us "what happened to them"?
"The Holocaust Industry" tells us, aka: lies for influence, power, & profit.
They say that 6,000,000 Jews and 5,000,000 'others' went to immense mass graves in known locations like those below, yet no such remain exist.

posted previously:
* staged Sobibor ‘monument’ / prop supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 in fact do not exist.Image

* This is what they actual found, a laughable "mass grave" of maybe 5 people at Sobibor in which not even the date, cause of death, ethnicity has been determined. LOL
Image

* Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.
Image

* Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.1M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.
Image

* Where did they really go? They went where Jews are, simple as that. Some examples:

After the war, many Jews stayed in Europe and many others scattered throughout the world, settling in nearly sixty countries. So it was that in the late 1990s the teams put in charge by Steven Spielberg of gathering survivors’ testimonies had to go to nearly sixty different countries to record the said testimonies on video.

* Recall the massive Displaced Persons Camps after the war.
Influx OF 3,000,000 JEWS; Tells Newspaper Executives in Germany That Refugees Have Created Grave Problem, JUNE 24, 1946
download/file.php?id=2160
https://archive.is/Jw6EM

* Also recall the alleged, but bogus "death marches" out of the camps. It's a known fact that Jews & others were given a choice to stay (at Auschwitz for example) or retreat with the Germans. Most by far chose to leave with the Germans. That alone demolished the fake narrative.

more:
Jews Transited through Treblinka, By Panagiotis Heliotis : https://codoh.com/library/document/6649/?lang=en
and:
* WJC's Stephen Wise said 1,250,000 - 1,500,000 Polish Jews homeless in Europe, outside of Poland, & alive after WWII: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191
and:
J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more’
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272
and:
What Happened to the Jews Who Were Deported to Auschwitz But Were Not Registered There? Insights on the 1944 Deportations of Hungarian Jews, By Jürgen Graf: https://codoh.com/library/document/2915/?lang=en
and:
The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944, by Carlo Mattogno: https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?lang=en
and:
Evidence for the Presence of “Gassed” Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, part 1
http://codoh.com/library/document/3111/?lang=en
and:
Evidence for the Presence of "Gassed" Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, Part 2
http://codoh.com/library/document/3127/?lang=en
and:
Evidence for the Presence of “Gassed” Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories, Part 3
http://codoh.com/library/document/3166/?lang=en

Welcome, Hannover

No alleged immense human remains of millions to be seen in alleged known locations, no 'holocaust'


There are some interesting links in here, and I thank you for them. However, much of your answer is not responsive to my question. I asked a good-faith, reasonable question: "is there any evidence that these people were deported East? what happened to them?" and you respond with:

"this has been answered many times" (not responsive to my question; if it really has been answered so many times, it should be easy to answer again);
"the gas chambers were scientifically impossible" (not responsive to my question; if the Jews weren't gassed what happened to them?);
"The Holocaust Industry tells us lies" (not responsive to my question; I already acknowledged red flags in the standard narrative); and
"There is no evidence of mass graves" (not responsive to my question; if the Jews are not in mass graves, where are they?).

Then you said "Where did they really go? They went where Jews are, simple as that." This actually is responsive to my question, but it is a totally unpersuasive answer, devoid of serious argument. It doesn't explain why there is no evidence of Jews being deported to the East -- or if there is evidence, it doesn't provide such evidence. If Jews and others weren't gassed at the camps, it seems to me that the revisionists should be a clear story as to what happened to them. Did Germany just keep them at the camps? Did they deport them? Did they just let them go?

Then you provided some links which look interesting, but it will take me time to go through them. It would have been better if, I don't know, you had simply answered my question.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby stinkytoes » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:29 am)

Sannhet wrote:
stinkytoes wrote:Why were some survivors at Auschwitz for years if the whole point was to deport them? ... what was the point of the camps and what was the point of putting most of them in Poland?

That's an easy one. Auschwitz was a labor camp, not a transit camp.

The transit camps were built at places where the railways changed gauge, from western-european gauge to Russian gauge. A train coming from Poland could not just continue on into Russia at leisure. In other words, there would have to be off-loading anyway. These were the ideal sites for transit camps, given the gauge-change problem. It's similar to how settlements historically develop at river crossing points or other places where people have to pass through and stop for a time. My understanding is that is why the so-called Aktion Reinhardt camps, all temporary facilities, were sited where they were.

Think about this, why would locations of pure extermination camps be built by coincidence at locations where railway-gauge changes? That is not even close to the most logical explanation. Was it to fool the Jews? How were the Jews, who were being deported, who were stuck inside the rail cars, supposed to know where railway-gauges change, and been pacified by this knowledge. Even if they were unusually well-versed in railways and the gauge-change problem, they weren't carrying smartphones with Google Maps to know exactly where they were.

If you have ever been on a long-distance, international train ride, you too many have had to deal with a railway-gauge change situation, and you may not have noticed it, as a passenger inside, or even been aware of it. This is still a problem today in places. Here is a 2015 article, "Gauge-changer installed at Belarus-Poland border."

stinkytoes wrote:where did they all go?

"Where did they all go" can be asked of a lot of people in the war, and in some cases of entire (sub-)populations in parts of Europe. The answer is: Some died; some were deported and reestablished themselves at their new locations; some hung around a while and transient lives for a period of a few years (Displaced Persons), and eventually found a way to a wealthy nation like the US, as refugees, or etc. The recently deceased Dario Gabbai, who was held for a time at Treblinka, ended up in California by 1949 and appeared in Hollywood movies in the early 1950s, and led a life in California of relative luxury compared to what he would've gotten hanging around somewhere in eastern Europe.

is there any evidence that such deportations were ever carried out?

Yes. There are many references in German documents. Consider this one, from chapter 9 of "Treblinka, Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?" by Carlo Mattogno and Jurgen Graf:

[T]he arrival of at least one transport from the Warsaw Ghetto at a location east of Treblinka has been documented beyond any question. On 31 July 1942, the Reichskommissar for White Russia, Wilhelm Kube, sent a telegram to the Reichskommissar for the Ostland, Heinrich Lohse, in which he protested the dispatching of a transport of "1,000 Jews from Warsaw to work at Minsk," because this would lead to danger of epidemics and an increase in partisan activity.[839]

On August 5, 1942, Lohse responded in a letter with the subject "Import of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw," in which he indicated that

"the practical realization of the solution of the Jewish problem is exclusively a matter for the police."

The responsibility "for the orderly realization of the measures," was also that of the police, so that protests were not permissible.[840]

Kube took up the problem anew in a letter written on August 17, 1942, to Lohse (again on the subject "Import of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw") and requested further instructions, since he wished to make "fundamental decisions concerning the taking in of further Jews into White Russia as a police matter."[841]


http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/10.html


Thank you. In my readings, nobody ever mentioned the railway-gauge changes. That is really helpful to know. I also appreciate the Mattogno and Graf citation. Very helpful in addressing my concerns.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Hannover » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:48 am)

stinkytoes said:
There are some interesting links in here, and I thank you for them. However, much of your answer is not responsive to my question. I asked a good-faith, reasonable question: "is there any evidence that these people were deported East? what happened to them?" and you respond with:

"this has been answered many times" (not responsive to my question; if it really has been answered so many times, it should be easy to answer again);
"the gas chambers were scientifically impossible" (not responsive to my question; if the Jews weren't gassed what happened to them?);
"The Holocaust Industry tells us lies" (not responsive to my question; I already acknowledged red flags in the standard narrative); and
"There is no evidence of mass graves" (not responsive to my question; if the Jews are not in mass graves, where are they?).

Then you said "Where did they really go? They went where Jews are, simple as that." This actually is responsive to my question, but it is a totally unpersuasive answer, devoid of serious argument. It doesn't explain why there is no evidence of Jews being deported to the East -- or if there is evidence, it doesn't provide such evidence. If Jews and others weren't gassed at the camps, it seems to me that the revisionists should be a clear story as to what happened to them. Did Germany just keep them at the camps? Did they deport them? Did they just let them go?

Then you provided some links which look interesting, but it will take me time to go through them. It would have been better if, I don't know, you had simply answered my question.
Top

I see you ignored my points, are not very familiar with logic, and are engaging in the classic 'garbage in, garbage out' line of argument.

1. You have not demonstrated that millions upon millions of people are in fact missing. Please at least try.
Rules of logic & jurisprudence state that the onus is upon the accuser.

2. It is illogical, as I pointed out, to conclude that people you illogically think went missing were murdered when there is zero proof of murder.

3. I also demonstrated out that the alleged murder weapon for your allegedly missing people was scientifically impossible.

4. I posted numerous links which address the issue of deportations to the east, you ignored them and statements of so called "survivors".
ex.:
Jews Transited through Treblinka : https://codoh.com/library/document/6649/?lang=en
excerpt:
"So let’s see. Is there evidence that Jews were transited through these supposed extermination camps? As a matter of fact there is. And not in some secret vault or anything, but in the database of the USHMM itself! And by searching through the survivor testimonies, we actually find quite a few from one of the most-infamous death camps of all, Treblinka."

5. You have ignored the fact that the outbound train records have been destroyed, which was covered in the info. I posted & you ignored.

6. I have used the "The Holocaust Industry's" own claim against them concerning the absolute lack of claimed enormous mass graves.

7. You clearly are in denial of the massive 'exodus' of Jews to Palestine, the US, S. America and everywhere where Jews went.

8. You ignore that fact that, as I mentioned, multitudes of Jews left the camps with the Germans.

9. You ignore the postwar Displaced Persons Camps I mentioned.

- Hannover

No alleged human remains of millions upon millions to be seen in allegedly known locations, no 'holocaust'.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:12 pm)

I don't think there were millions of Jews. Some Jews went on their own to the USSR before occupying Germans invaded. Auschwitz was the biggest Jewish holding camp, that's why it has the infame it has today. But also was a transfer station to smaller camps. Keep in mind that other camps like Buchenwald weren't even that Jewish, until perhaps the end, when Auschwitz closed.

If we know the number of Jews at Auschwitz at it's height. Before alleged killing operations started, which was 100,000 to 200,000, I'd have to look it up, there weren't going to be 5 times that number of Jews in other camps. Also consider ghettos and not just camps. The traditional Jewish section that then became administered as a Jewish Ghetto. Warsaw ghetto for instance. We learn they had their own money, their own Jewish adminstation, but because that doesn't fit with the holocaust myth, there is a bunch of lies put on the Warsaw ghetto to make it fit with the myth.

A lot of Jews had already immigrated to the the USA. 2.3 million Jews arrived at Ellis Island between 1881 and 1920.

The documentation, what there might have been, would have been destroyed by victors promoting a holocaust myth, including false documents added in, to support the holocaust myth they were trying to create.

After the war Jews went primarily to Israel, USA, Canada, but as Hannover points out, the Shoah foundation had to travel to 60 countries to document stories.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby HMSendeavour » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:33 pm)

Here are some other threads that have already answered this question:

The Korherr Report: Where did they go?
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2085&hilit=expulsion

J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?' / & more
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272&p=62273&

Article from "Holocaust Controversies" about Jews Transported to The East
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=13084

See the book specifically on this subject:

The Second Babylonian Captivity by Steffen Werner
Second Babylonian Captivity.PNG


“But if they were not murdered, where did the six million deported Jews end up?”
This is a standard objection to the revisionist thesis that the Jews were not killed in extermination camps. It demands a well-founded response.

While researching an entirely different topic, Steffen Werner accidentally stumbled upon the most-peculiar demographic data of Byelorussia. Years of research subsequently revealed more and more evidence which eventually allowed him to substantiate a breathtaking and sensational proposition: The Third Reich did indeed deport many of the Jews of Europe to Eastern Europe in order to settle them there “in the swamp.”

This book, first published in German in 1990, was the first well-founded work showing what really happened to the Jews deported to the East by the National Socialists, how they have fared since, and who, what and where they are “now” (1990). It provides context and purpose for hitherto-obscure and seemingly arbitrary historical events and quite obviates all need for paranormal events such as genocide, gas chambers, and all their attendant horrifics.

With a preface by Germar Rudolf with references to more-recent research results in this field of study confirming Werner’s thesis.


You can buy it here: https://shop.codoh.com/book/the-second-babylonian-captivity-en/509/
Last edited by HMSendeavour on Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby HMSendeavour » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:52 pm)

stinkytoes wrote:The revisionists say that Hitler intended to deport them (to lands formerly held by the USSR I guess). That is why the camps were mostly in Poland -- he was pushing them East. However, is there any evidence that such deportations were ever carried out? If not, why not? Is there someone -- a survivor -- who said something like "I was at Treblinka for two months and then I was shipped out to Russia." Why were some survivors at Auschwitz for years if the whole point was to deport them? Is there evidence from reconnaisance photos showing trains filled with people traveling from the camps in an Eastward direction?


Actually, we revisionists do not say much or anything about Hitler, as Hitler is only made important in as much as the establishment insists on inserting him into every crevice they can in order to heap whatever atrocity stories they like onto his shoulders. After all. Adolf Hitler was the major pusher and puller of National Socialism, if they can lay the blame or at LEAST make him the catalyst for whatever they think happened then in their minds, the reputation of Hitler can never be adjusted towards a fair vindication. Either of himself, his movement or Reich. If the victors do not feel obligated to treat fairly the man and people they wrongly crushed in a war Germany did not want, they can avoid that most awkward question of blame for the bloodiest war of human history. This is the purpose for Hitler being the epicentre of these alleged "atrocities". It's a convenient smoke screen, a distraction from the real abscractions of this point in 20th century history. After all, who in their right mind would defend Hitler and National Socialism if 6 million Jews had been murdered at their hands!

All of the contention surrounding Hitler comes about by assumption. So, you'll see many exterminationists quote Goebbels, Himmler, or some other semi prominent SS man, but usually they never quote Hitler himself because Hitler, to their dismay, left the world with virtually no comment about the procedure of the Final Solution in any form. Officially or otherwise.

The goal of the exterminationist is to "prove" the linear "drip down" of orders, or actions coming from Hitler/inspired by him. Ian Kershaw's "working towards the Führer" is the current prevailing thought which illustrates this point. It's the idea that all men from the top down were scrambling to interpret what Hitler wanted even if they received no direct order or word from him at all. Peter Longerich operates this way too IIRC, although he claims Hitler simply "radicalised Jewish policy" which "inspired" the extermination of the Jews from a lower level, still making Hitler responsible even if the connection doesn't go directly straight to Hitler himself. This entire formula allows the orthodoxy to blame Hitler as the progenitor of the "Holocaust".

(from a review of Peter Longerichs recent 2019 Hitler biography)
Longerich on Hitler.JPG


You can thus see how Hitler really plays no part at all, besides the part of the instigator the established narrative NEEDS him to play, yet which they struggle to establish for him.

This might be considered a minor point, but it hasn't been stressed enough that even when we talk about the Revisionist view of the Final Solution, Adolf Hitler is still virtually non-existent in the narrative of what really occurred, for the simple reason that he wasn't involved. When you learn more about Revisionism, you will notice an extreme LACK of Hitler's presence.

Hilberg Quote.png
(Original Content)
Source: https://www.bitchute.com/video/ypxgNr8nFFvC/
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Lamprecht
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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Lamprecht » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:29 pm)

stinkytoes wrote:Thank you. In my readings, nobody ever mentioned the railway-gauge changes. That is really helpful to know. I also appreciate the Mattogno and Graf citation. Very helpful in addressing my concerns.

I think we need a map, something like this, but with the railways imposed also on them:
Image

I will try to answer some of your questions more directly in a later post, but I'm about to go do something else. So if there are grammar/spelling errors just ignore them.

Anyway, I think it's silly to think that we should assume hundreds of thousands of gassed Jews were dumped into enormous pits at just a few "extermination camps" when we are not allowed to see the alleged pits, although they would still exist today if the stories are true. It's standard practice:

Mass grave excavation guidelines / The "Mass grave excavations don't produce photographed bodies" lie
viewtopic.php?t=12889

Asking for a complete travel itinerary for millions of Jews during WWII is laughable, especially given the almost complete lack of outbound train records from the so-called "pure extermination camps". If the story was true we would see thousands of empty trains leaving these camps after dropping off the Jews. Or, if the Germans went through so much trouble to hide the evidence (digging up rotting corpses and burning hundreds of thousands of them in giant pyres) they would have typed up some fake outbound records to cover their asses. They were already accused of using "resettlement to the east" as a euphemism for extermination before the war was over:

Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?
viewtopic.php?ft=2355

I will refer to some things from my older posts though:

Obviously, some died in [or in transit to] the camps during WWII. We have records of this. see:

Auschwitz death records: alleged fake causes of death for those executed, mainly "heart failure"
viewtopic.php?t=12865

SS Officer Karl von Eberstein on the conditions of the camps / Piles of bodies & Emaciated Corpses
viewtopic.php?t=12624

Prisoners dying in transit to the AR camps (Sobibor, Belzec, Treblinka) / other deaths / expected death tolls
viewtopic.php?t=12910

Remember: this was all during the bloodiest war in human history, and we must analyze the actions/results by those standards.

I will suggest you read the bottom of this post, on "the hierarchy of evidence": viewtopic.php?p=95570#p95570
Remember the hierarchy of evidence. Here's a basic outline, in order of most definitive first:

1. Laws of nature – If someone contradicts the laws of nature, it did not happen. For something to have happened, it must first be possible. Simple

2. Common sense - If something makes absolutely no sense, it probably did not happen. For example, someone claims they avoided the gas chamber many times by being the 201st person in line but it only fit 200. That's just silly

3. Physical/material evidence - If someone says "Below my feet is a mass grave of 10,000 people" and then we dig and find nothing, it is not true. Even if 10 people agree with him, it just is not there

4. Documents - documents are generally more reliable than testimony, but even documents can be faked/forged: something the Soviets were notorious for. So when looking at them we must keep this in mind. Also, documents can be destroyed (both incriminating and exonerating) so relying solely on documents is problematic, but they do in general have more weight than testimony.

5. Neutral testimony - testimony of someone who has no skin in the game. A person who can not benefit or lose out no matter what they say. These people can lie, but are less likely to

6. Party testimony - a victim, a perpetrator, a prisoner, a vengeful enemy. These sorts of testimonies are the weakest forms of evidence imaginable. A victim or enemy may lie just for revenge. A perpetrator may lie just to seem innocent, and that may be denial or a "Yes it happened but I couldn’t stop it!" confession (whether you consider that a "confession" is a matter of semantics). A prisoner’s testimony is also very weak because he may just be saying whatever he thinks will get him out of jail.

We should never assume a testimony is false just because of who says it, but we should be very skeptical about testimony and make an honest effort to combine it with something more genuine, ideally physical evidence but if that is not possible then we should preferentially use documents.

From another post: viewtopic.php?p=95571#p95571
Lamprecht wrote:Ah, the old "Then where did they go?" question

Unfortunately we can never have all of the answers. There are countless historical mysteries. Maybe one day someone will invent a time machine. Until then, we can only speculate. As an exercise Google "unsolved mysteries in history" and spend time looking through the 10 million results.

Those who ask this question claim that millions of Jews went into enormous pits. The pits cannot be shown to exist anywhere close to the quantities alleged, and revisionists accept that thousands (rather than millions) perished in WWII concentration camps. If we are to accept the premise that 95-98% of those transited to these camps (the remainder would be deaths in transit or executions via bullet) didn't die that doesn't tell us exactly where they went. It is an interesting question, and it has been answered "Jews went wherever Jews are" or "somewhere other than the alleged pits" but that is also not very specific. At the same time I am not aware of any revisionist who claims to have so many complete, 7+ decade old travel itineraries for these Jews in war-torn Europe. If they were transited to the east, then after the war they would have been under Soviet control. They also had perfectly functional feet and could theoretically move around using them.

Goebbels in his diary, 27 April 1942:
"I talked to the Führer once more in detail about the Jewish Question. His attitude is unrelenting. He wants, under all circumstances, to push the Jews out (herausdrängen) of Europe. That is right. The Jews have brought so much misery to our continent that the severest punishment meted out to them is still too mild. Himmler is presently implementing a large resettlement (Umseidlung) of Jews from German cities to the eastern ghettos."

Goebbels stated that Jews were being resettled in Eastern ghettos, and laments that it is "too mild" of a policy. In other instances in his diary, particularly in the final months of the war (the AR camps dismantled at this point) Goebbels states that the Jews "are reemerging" and his opinion is that "Anyone in a position to do so should kill these Jews like rats (wie die Ratten totschlagen)." So you would think that he would have endorsed any extermination policy if it existed and I don't see why Goebbels would have been in the dark about such a policy if it was real.
These and other similar Goebbels diary quotes here: viewtopic.php?p=95512#p95512

We can also see many ghettos in the eastern territories that could be candidates for this "large resettlement" he spoke of:
Image

These places all were under Soviet control after the war. So if there were train records, the Soviets could do with them what they wanted. For all of these massive trainloads of Jews to the AR camps, we should expect (if the extermination claim is true) just as many outbound, empty [of people] train records. We have fewer than 1% of the outbound records for these camps that we should expect so it is not reasonable to speculate about what the other 99%+ contained in them based only on those records. There is a lot of talk of Nazis destroying incriminating documents but very little talk of Soviets (or other allies) destroying exonerating documents. Probably, both sides destroyed documents for their own benefit. After all, the Soviets (notorious document forgers) tried to blame Katyn on the Germans and the USA helped them do it, so destroying exonerating documents is not far fetched. I wouldn't put it past the USA or British either.

There is another factor regarding the USSR, and that is their almost complete cut-off with the Western World; and there wasn't just a language barrier. A good example to illustrate this point is Robert Robinson, a Black American who went to the USSR to get a job during the great depression. The US Embassy cancelled his American passport so he became a Soviet citizen. He tried to leave the USSR to visit his sick mother in Jamaica and at this point he realized that the USSR was essentially a prison. He wrote a book about his experiences in the USSR and USA about the people that helped him escape and such things as racism he experienced.

I wanted to make a thread about a specific concept and probably will at a later date, and that concept is known as:
Falsifiability
Falsifiability means that for any hypothesis to have credence, it must be inherently disprovable.

In the case of
"These specific Jews who went to [specific location] 70+ years ago with [specific location 2] as an intermediate step"
it would be very difficult to prove if there are no relevant records and they were able to move around. But if that changes to
"They went to [specific location] and never left, and remain there to this day in some form"
it is now an easily testable theory. And that is precisely what is asserted by the "Holocaust" narrative. But the alleged pits are not shown to us. All we are given is pathetic excuses -- all the while those who speak out in Poland, Germany, France, etc are fined and imprisoned for it.

So when asked "Then where did they go?" it is perfectly valid to say "I do not know" - but it is invalid for someone to conclude "therefore, they are in these enormous pits, and no I don't have to show you the pits!"
First, they must show the alleged pits. Until then, they merely have a theory with an artificially contrived consensus based on legal [and social] penalties for those who publicly question it. It can be falsified in the same manner that it can be shown to be correct. They refuse to do such a thing despite having the resources and technology to do so. Therefore, their case is considerably weakened.

It can only be after these thorough archaeological excavations that the truth about these camps will be revealed, whether it is resettled "into mass graves" or "somewhere else." The image below is what we are told actually exists, today, under a layer of soil.

Image

And if the investigations show that they did go "somewhere else" we can try to find out where. But we are unlikely to find new evidence 7+ decades after the fact (unless it was hidden rather than destroyed).
And in such a case, "Jews went wherever Jews are" still is not specific, but it would be perfectly accurate and valid. And I doubt many people would be interested in a more comprehensive answer after the "gassed and burned and dumped into huge pits" theory is completely discredited. Millions of pounds of physical evidence cannot vanish, unlike documents.

So if anyone has the right to ask the question "where did they go then?" it is the revisionists. The exterminationists claim to know where the 1.5+ million Treblinka 2, Sobibor, and Belzec victims went. Ask them to show you and they might provide a map with shapes on it they call "mass graves". Perfect, so they know exactly where they went down to the meter? Then they can show us a pit full of burnt human remains. If they can't do that, why believe them?



Just imagine being charged with murder in a court of law, and the prosecution states that the victims are buried in precisely known locations. Your lawyer asks 'show us these buried remains' and the prosecution says 'no, we don't have to. If the victims aren't there, then where did they go?' :lol: :roll:


Suggested reading on "Final Solution":
War-time German documents & writings mentioning the "Final Solution"
viewtopic.php?t=12296

On "Final Solution", also see: http://archive.is/HvrLe and https://archive.is/8uafD

As well as this believer who was challenged on the "Final Solution = exterminate Jews" but failed to substantiate such an strong allegation, eventually he went insane (check his most recent posts): viewtopic.php?t=13087

And finally, some documents on the AR camps, from a prior post:
And Aktion Reinhardt was quite obviously not an extermination policy either, according to the documents at least. See for example:

- 5 January 1944 Globocnik Report to Himmler (4024-PS)
viewtopic.php?t=12359

The report explains the purpose of the AR camps: to plunder Jewish wealth and resettle/evacuate/expel/deport them. Why would they use "code words" here? Globocnik had a leading role in AR, and Himmler was, well Himmler. The "labour minister" or "underlings" are not relevant here at all.


- 17 March 1942 Fritz Reuter memo on his conversation with Höfle
viewtopic.php?t=12417#p92065
Reuter explains that Jews sent unfit for work would be expelled from Poland via Belzec to the east, "cross the border and never return." Is that supposed to mean killed? Hoefle was Globocnik's deputy. Both Hoefle and Globkcnick "committed suicide" before being put on trial. Very convenient.


- 13 August 1942 Karl Wolff memo to Albert Ganzenmüller
viewtopic.php?t=10360
In response to "The Ganzenmuller Letter" regarding deporting Jews to Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka – Wolff stated that he was very glad to hear about their plan "to accelerate this population transfer"

Does "population transfer" mean kill? Transfer into mass graves I guess? Show the alleged mass graves they were transferred into. It should be easy as they would still be there 70+ years later...


- The "Operation Reinhadt Secrecy Oath"
viewtopic.php?t=12924
The document says no photographing or talking about the camp is to be allowed for AR staff. Perhaps this explains your "lack of evidence" for resettlement.
Regardless, it describes the purpose of these camps as part of an "evacuation of Jews" policy. Some dishonest people used this evidence of an extermination camp, but it is in no way incompatible with the transit camp thesis. Just more of the "code word" nonsense. I feel that I addressed your "vacation summer camp trip" canard here: viewtopic.php?p=95569#p95569


- 5 July 1943 Himmler order "transit camp Sobibor is to be converted into a concentration camp"
https://codoh.com/library/document/4478/
"The transit camp Sobibór is to be converted into a concentration camp. In the concentration camp a plant for the repair of captured munitions is to be established."
Did Himmler just love to confuse people in his orders?

Let me guess, you have "Eye witnesses"? Please make a thread for your "eye witnesses" - the ones that claim enormous pits exist, today, full of tens of thousands of burnt Jews, at the AR camps. Such as like this:
Image
Show us enormous trenches like this from AR please, make a thread about it.

And explain how these Germans supposedly always knew when "evacuation" meant "shove into gas chambers" in contrast to the dictionary definition. And how they knew that "deportation" sometimes meant "shoot into huge pits" but in other instances meant to put them on trains. Was it telepathy?



If you're looking for census numbers rather than 70+ year old travel itineraries, I suggest the following threads:

Issues with post-WWII Jewish census figures
viewtopic.php?t=12735

Jewish Evacuations by the USSR during WWII (from Solzhenitsyn's 200YT)
viewtopic.php?t=12777
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby ServantOfAhuraMazda » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:57 am)

What's the matter? Plans for resettlement were to be carried out after the war. Obviously they did not intend to deport the jews there while the war was hapenning next door. They didnt even conquer most of the territories that were intended for this purpose.
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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Lamprecht » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:36 pm)

OP: tell me when you have read the links provided, and then come back with the questions you don't feel are answered about. If this topic is truly important to you, I expect you do the actual research. It's really not very much at all.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Werd » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:58 pm)

HMSendeavour wrote:Here are some other threads that have already answered this question:

See the book specifically on this subject:

The Second Babylonian Captivity by Steffen Werner
[...]
You can buy it here: https://shop.codoh.com/book/the-second-babylonian-captivity-en/509/

I would be careful about that book. Jurgen Graf has problems with it.

The first, or “destructive” phase of revisionist work – the refutation of the official “Holocaust” story – is largely behind us. It is now time to concentrate on the second, and more difficult, “constructive” phase, which is to provide a more complete picture of the actual fate of Europe’s Jews during the Second World War. Although authors such as Arthur Butz, Walter Sanning, Steffen Werner, Enrique Aynat and Jean-Marie Boisdefeu have already carried out some pioneering work, this second phase of revisionist research is still in its beginning.
[...]
In an interesting book published in Germany in 1990, Die zweite babylonische Gefangenschaft (“The Second Babylonian Captivity”), Steffen Werner provides evidence for German wartime deportations of Jews from various countries to Belarus (Belorussia).33
[...]
Werner and Boisdefeu speculate that those western European Jews deported to the occupied Soviet territories who survived the war were probably rounded up by the Soviets and deported to Siberian camps. At that time Stalin and the Soviet regime already supported the myth of the annihilation of the Jews in gas chambers, and a massive return of Jews to western Europe from the USSR would have discredited that story. However, this is only speculation, and Werner and Boisdefeu are unable to prove this thesis. Such unanswered questions can presumably be clarified only through documents held in archives in Russia and in other countries of the former Soviet Union. There are reasons to hope that a future nationalist government in Russia will one day make such documents public. I do not need to spell out the obvious dramatic and politically important consequences of such a step.




[33]
Steffen Werner, Die zweite babylonische Gefangenschaft: Das Schicksal der Juden im europäischen Osten (Pfullingen: Selbstverlag, 1990). For example, Werner cites (on page 89) the following, from a book based on memoirs of Soviet partisans and German “anti-fascists” that was published in Communist East Berlin in 1976: “In the fraternal family of the Belorussian [Belarus] partisans, Czechs and Slovaks, French and Yugoslavs, Greeks and Dutch, Spaniards and Austrians, Germans and members of other nations fought courageously against fascism.” (Source cited: In den Wäldern Belorusslands (Berlin [East]: 1976), p. 9.) How could anti-fascists from all these countries have come to Belarus if they were not deported there? Werner contends that millions of Jews were deported to Belarus (White Russia) during the war years, a view that I regard as impossible. In spite of some obvious defects, Werner’s book is a good starting point for further research.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Hannover » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:31 pm)

Werd posted this from Juergen Graf:
Such unanswered questions can presumably be clarified only through documents held in archives in Russia and in other countries of the former Soviet Union. There are reasons to hope that a future nationalist government in Russia will one day make such documents public. I do not need to spell out the obvious dramatic and politically important consequences of such a step.

Seriously? As if the communists would have left such documents sitting around waiting to be found.

Much as the German outbound records from the camps have been destroyed, one can bet the farm that the communists, in league with Zionists, have destroyed all other relevant documents. Graf and Werd are kidding themselves if they think otherwise.

There are numerous posted examples above concerning relocated Jews, so we know that they were indeed transferred out of the camps.
But once again, it's all really irrelevant because the pertinent issue is the false claim that 'Jews transferred were murdered', but the alleged murder weapons, 'gas chambers', were scientifically impossible.
Top that off by the fact that the alleged immense human remains said to exist in known locations in fact do NOT exist.

That covers both of the alleged 'extermination methods':
- alleged 'gas chambers' and the resultant massive human remains that would have occurred if true
- and 'huge mass shootings into enormous pits' and the resultant massive human remains that would have occurred if true.

Logic, science & rational thought indicate that it's another case of 'much ado about nothing'.

Game, set, match.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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