Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps? / 'Where did they go?'

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HMSendeavour
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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps? / 'Where did they go?'

Postby HMSendeavour » 7 months 4 weeks ago (Thu May 28, 2020 5:22 am)

Lamprecht wrote:Personally I would be surprised to hear anyone claim that the Germans had no documents about killings during WW2. Did they even fight in this war? I wouldn't take such a person seriously.


That's not what I'm saying, I was talking about specific documents related to the alleged Holocaust. It is the exterminationists who'd like to see any and every document relating to the deaths of Jews, or reported deaths of Jews as a Holocaust related document. For them it fills in the gaps of a narrative they don't have any real evidence for in the first place. The Einsatzgruppen reports are a good example of this.

The fact that Jews were killed in anti-partisan warfare, big deal, that's to be expected. So I'm obviously not talking about documents that are of that nature.

Other than that, yes I agree with you, I just hope you didn't actually think I was saying there are literally no documents that talk about the deaths of Jews in any context. I'm not aware of anyone who says that.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Lamprecht » 7 months 4 weeks ago (Thu May 28, 2020 8:57 am)

HMSendeavour wrote:
Lamprecht wrote:Personally I would be surprised to hear anyone claim that the Germans had no documents about killings during WW2. Did they even fight in this war? I wouldn't take such a person seriously.


That's not what I'm saying, I was talking about specific documents related to the alleged Holocaust. It is the exterminationists who'd like to see any and every document relating to the deaths of Jews, or reported deaths of Jews as a Holocaust related document. For them it fills in the gaps of a narrative they don't have any real evidence for in the first place. The Einsatzgruppen reports are a good example of this.

The fact that Jews were killed in anti-partisan warfare, big deal, that's to be expected. So I'm obviously not talking about documents that are of that nature.

Other than that, yes I agree with you, I just hope you didn't actually think I was saying there are literally no documents that talk about the deaths of Jews in any context. I'm not aware of anyone who says that.

I was responding to the post you were quoting (my bold)

let me get this straight. so the holocaust didn't happen, because there aren't any documents, hitler orders etc, just testimony (which doesnt count), and all the documents describing killings that do exist must be forgeries because the holocaust was faked, because if the germans really had done the holocaust they would have forged some fake resettlement documents. talk about 4d chess


He has not defined "Holocaust" beyond "Something the Germans did". He seems to be implying that there are no documents describing Germans killing people in WWII.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Archie » 7 months 1 day ago (Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:23 pm)

I remember when I first heard that there were people who questioned the Holocaust. When I first considered the possibility, it seemed quite likely to me that many aspects of it such as the atrocity stories were exaggerated. At the same time though, my intuition told me that it should be relatively easy to determine approximately how many Jews there were before and after the war. Maybe not exactly but surely we should be able to determine the approximate number of deaths within a million or so, right? Right???? How can there really be any debate over whether something like 40% of the world Jewish population died over a five year period? The veracity of such a claim should be readily apparent one way or the other. That is the implicit premise of this common question. But this is an instance where intuition can be misleading. Years later when I looked into the topic a little more closely, I realized some of my initial assumptions were naive and uninformed.

It is true that in advanced countries under normal circumstances we generally have pretty good demographic and mortality statistics. But things get more complicated when you're talking about wartime conditions with shifting borders, regime changes, and large migrations all at the same time. Even right now consider that the US government doesn't have precise numbers on how many illegal aliens are currently residing in the US (and note also that there's not much political will to determine this).

Now consider the additional difficulties specific to Jews. We are dealing with a diaspora population constituting a small percentage of the people in many different countries. Not all countries record Jews in the census. Notably the United States does not. (Jews also successfully lobbied to have the US stop keeping track of Jews immigrating into the country). The definition of Jew isn't always the same (religiously observant vs racial). And Jews can and do conceal their origins, change their names, etc (crypsis). In America the tendency is to switch to a less distinctly Jewish name. In Israel the tendency is to change their names to something Hebrew. While the latter practice doesn't conceal Jewishness, it can conceal Polish origins, Hungarian origins, etc. It's by no means a simple task to determine world Jewish population over the period in question and it's actually very possible that millions of Jews could disappear in the statistics. Especially if Jews themselves had an interest in creating such an impression.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby forasanerworld » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:13 pm)

"Where did they go" assumes an uncertain starting point of how many there were, the IHR archive has a piece by Hankins that speaks of the great uncertainty and why censuses cannot be relied on.

I'm currently reading Henry Ford's "The International Jew", highly recommended, which makes two pertinent references, how Louis Marshall prevented the designation of Jew being an immigration/census question, all numbers being provided to Washington by the Zionist AJC, and two, that the sales of Passover bread suggested not the 3.5 million AJC number but 6 million in 1921.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 3 weeks ago (Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:04 pm)

Simon Wiesenthal wrote after the liberation of the camps:
"The survivors spread over through Europe in an immense measureless tide. People hitch-hiked, stopped jeeps for the short journeys or clung to carriages on the demolished railways, without windows or doors. Some took a seat in the overflowing hay carts, other started off on foot."


from:
Image
Understanding the Jews, Understanding Anti-Semitism
http://archive.vn/WLq4h or http://web.archive.org/web/202007060117 ... -semitism/ or http://archive.is/JwYUR
PDF: https://archive.org/details/Understandi ... iSemitism/ or http://web.archive.org/web/202007060108 ... mitism.pdf
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Where did they go? Russia

Postby paternos » 3 weeks 6 days ago (Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:41 am)

[I have merged this post with this thread. Thanks, M1]

Hey everyone,

This is my first post on the CODOH forum as I feel I have something to add.

Bit of background on my journey and newcomer here: As a teen I visited Auschwitz and immediately couldn’t believe the stories, they seemed grotesque and not grounded in reality which made me a doubter.

Though I was captivated by this story, in my beginning twenties I visited the main camps, Treblinka, again Auschwitz & Sobibor and also visited Nurnberg. Especially my visit to Treblinka left in me in awe. No proof, no mass graves, the worst atrocity there is a shared pamphlet in the museum announcing the executions of criminals. (All very transparent and rule based as I would expect of the protestant Germans)

So shortening it a bit down, my step 1: No there has been no extermination, I’m convinced of that

But that left step 2: Where did they go?

I have seen enough proof of many people being transported in Western Europe to the camps that I need to answer this question. I think the 6 million are exaggerated, but at least a million.

In short that I think that that has been Russia, found some sources that convinced me that I haven’t seen shared before.

American Jew Activist James N. Rosenberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_N._Rosenberg thanks Russia for accepting 1.750.000 jews in 1943 written up in a telegram of the JTA (Jewish Telegraphic Agency)

“of some 1,750,000 Jews who succeeded in escaping the Axis since the outbreak of hostilities, about 1,600,000 were evacuated by the Soviet Government from Eastern Poland and subsequently occupied Soviet territory and transported far into the Russian interior and beyond the Urals. About 150,000 others managed to reach Palestine, the United States, and other countries beyond the seas.”

“We Jews,” Mr. Rosenberg said, “rightly give thanks for the innumerable resolutions of sympathy for Jews, adopted by well-meaning men and groups horrified by the hideous tragedy which has befallen our people. Russia has chosen deeds. She has given life, asylum, bread, and shelter to a vast Jewish population. These facts are not sufficiently known. To make them known to every Jew in this country is a task of supreme importance for the Jewish Council for Russian War Relief. Need I ask what would have happened to those Jews had Russia left them where they were?”

I had to laugh this is so open and all is based on reports of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace organization.
https://www.jta.org/1943/07/02/archive/russia-helped-1750000-jews-to-escape-nazis-says-james-n-rosenberg

Also read the official telegram
http://pdfs.jta.org/1943/1943-07-02_153.pdf?_ga=2.162822840.509101817.1609241487-677962530.1609241487

Rosenberg, JTA, Carnegie foundation are all top influencers in that time. This line was advancing their mission back then: Get more funding for the Jews in Russia. After the war they changed position and story fully. To me this story is more trustable: in line with German documents on transports, supported by the large influx in Jews in Russia.

There are quite some public stories on multiple people that did this move as refugees. This documentary “Saved by Deportation” beautifully shows this with stories of Jews being saved by Stalin transported to the east. They though bumped down the numbers a lot today. No 1.750.000 jews, but thousands.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1260395/

Even population statistics in Uzbekistan shows an 88% growth of jews between 1939 and 1959, I’m quite sure those are refugees. Even though I don’t trust numbers in Russia a lot after WW2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Uzbekistan

And then thinking about Treblinka, where the Russian rail track size met the European track size, it becomes quite clear to me.

What I think: Germans probably had an (unwritten) deal with the Russians.

In simple talk: Germans: “We want to get rid of the Jews. Do you want them?”

Russia: “Yes we will take your refugees, if you ….” (I have no clue what they demanded in return, but just the deal below is already quite good)

Thinking of Russia in that situation that would quite an interesting proposal, as they didn’t hate jews like the germans and were even having a strong jew presence in government.

- You can let all the young strong guys coming in fight directly to the enemy that expelled them. (Free conscription)
- They are quite an educated workforce that might bring growth and prosperity to severely underpopulated areas in East Russia.
- You can let them work for several years in the Siberian Work camps for free (like in the documentary) and I’m feel sure a lot of them died here, Siberia is a lot harsher than a German led work camp I’m sure reading Solzjenitsyn.

Anyhow a good deal for both!

Which leaves me to a question, if this is true, why did this not common knowledge?

After the war there was no advantage for the Russians to tell this truth.

The reality is they were simply accepting refugees, where Russia believed it was to their advantage to accept them. The story that Germany killed them all was politically far more advantageous for America, Jews and Russia after the war.

By portraying the Germans as bad mass killers the Americans were legitimized to grab strong presence in Europe after WW2 instrumentalized with the fake Nurnberg trials and the holocaust lies. America and Russia could divide the evil German territory after the war on the premise that they defeated this bad bad hitler strongly benefitting their interest.

They captured the heart of Europe and since then Europe has been under American, Russian and Jew occupation with the disasters we are seeing played out today.

Also the Jews have no incentive to tell this story, they can get billions of European euros as reparations for bad German killers. Next to that they can push their internationalism agenda vs the bad nationalist Hitlers in Europe today.

We will never get political backing for this theory, but personally I’m 95% sure this is how it went. Jews, Russians and Americans benefited greatly and still benefit of this blatant lie.

The only ones not benefitting are the cucked Europeans, who seem to love to be punished for their sins, they and their forefathers didn’t do. It’s sad but true. The amount of Jewish influence in politics and the money sent to Israel in all Western European states is horrifying. National identities in Europe are being slaughtered in the current vibe. And most countries are run by normative mommies humiliating men.

I’m just talking simple language, it’s all nuanced, Germans killed jews, shot them, but talking big numbers, I’m quite sure this is the main story of the Jews in WW2. For me this a conclusive answer to the plus million deported. That James Rosenberg message is so clear and telling.

Then why didn’t more stories from Russia pop up?

Russia has been closed down for many years. And after the war and after the collapse of communism there were 2 large batches of emigration of Jews all across the world and to Israel. And many people that encountered this ww2 transfer to Russia will have died there before 1989, we will never hear those stories.

And they did move. Between 1990 and 2000 Germany accepted +100.000 Jews from Russia further speeding up the Jewish narrative of internationalism in the European states that Rosenberg already wrote down. We all see the harm that open immigration of muslims are doing to the wide diverse identity of Europe.

We will not know all.

But 1 thing I know, this take on history what I consider truth is 100 times more likely than skin lamps, smashed babies and laughing German slaugtherers.

It’s depressing how the European people are being lied to and abused for all these years. I notice I got more political than I wanted in this post, but I feel the need to place this in the context of recent history and need to get this off my chest, i find it hard to see my family and people be subverted to humanitarian lies and false prophets.

Curious to hear your thoughts. Probably historians worked on this theory. Would love love to get some pointers / sources to get more depth on it. Criticism ofcourse welcome, I'm just a simple man trying to make sense in a web of lies.

Thanks,

Bern


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