Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

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HMSendeavour
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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby HMSendeavour » 2 months 6 days ago (Thu May 28, 2020 5:22 am)

Lamprecht wrote:Personally I would be surprised to hear anyone claim that the Germans had no documents about killings during WW2. Did they even fight in this war? I wouldn't take such a person seriously.


That's not what I'm saying, I was talking about specific documents related to the alleged Holocaust. It is the exterminationists who'd like to see any and every document relating to the deaths of Jews, or reported deaths of Jews as a Holocaust related document. For them it fills in the gaps of a narrative they don't have any real evidence for in the first place. The Einsatzgruppen reports are a good example of this.

The fact that Jews were killed in anti-partisan warfare, big deal, that's to be expected. So I'm obviously not talking about documents that are of that nature.

Other than that, yes I agree with you, I just hope you didn't actually think I was saying there are literally no documents that talk about the deaths of Jews in any context. I'm not aware of anyone who says that.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 6 days ago (Thu May 28, 2020 8:57 am)

HMSendeavour wrote:
Lamprecht wrote:Personally I would be surprised to hear anyone claim that the Germans had no documents about killings during WW2. Did they even fight in this war? I wouldn't take such a person seriously.


That's not what I'm saying, I was talking about specific documents related to the alleged Holocaust. It is the exterminationists who'd like to see any and every document relating to the deaths of Jews, or reported deaths of Jews as a Holocaust related document. For them it fills in the gaps of a narrative they don't have any real evidence for in the first place. The Einsatzgruppen reports are a good example of this.

The fact that Jews were killed in anti-partisan warfare, big deal, that's to be expected. So I'm obviously not talking about documents that are of that nature.

Other than that, yes I agree with you, I just hope you didn't actually think I was saying there are literally no documents that talk about the deaths of Jews in any context. I'm not aware of anyone who says that.

I was responding to the post you were quoting (my bold)

let me get this straight. so the holocaust didn't happen, because there aren't any documents, hitler orders etc, just testimony (which doesnt count), and all the documents describing killings that do exist must be forgeries because the holocaust was faked, because if the germans really had done the holocaust they would have forged some fake resettlement documents. talk about 4d chess


He has not defined "Holocaust" beyond "Something the Germans did". He seems to be implying that there are no documents describing Germans killing people in WWII.
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Archie » 1 month 1 week ago (Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:23 pm)

I remember when I first heard that there were people who questioned the Holocaust. When I first considered the possibility, it seemed quite likely to me that many aspects of it such as the atrocity stories were exaggerated. At the same time though, my intuition told me that it should be relatively easy to determine approximately how many Jews there were before and after the war. Maybe not exactly but surely we should be able to determine the approximate number of deaths within a million or so, right? Right???? How can there really be any debate over whether something like 40% of the world Jewish population died over a five year period? The veracity of such a claim should be readily apparent one way or the other. That is the implicit premise of this common question. But this is an instance where intuition can be misleading. Years later when I looked into the topic a little more closely, I realized some of my initial assumptions were naive and uninformed.

It is true that in advanced countries under normal circumstances we generally have pretty good demographic and mortality statistics. But things get more complicated when you're talking about wartime conditions with shifting borders, regime changes, and large migrations all at the same time. Even right now consider that the US government doesn't have precise numbers on how many illegal aliens are currently residing in the US (and note also that there's not much political will to determine this).

Now consider the additional difficulties specific to Jews. We are dealing with a diaspora population constituting a small percentage of the people in many different countries. Not all countries record Jews in the census. Notably the United States does not. (Jews also successfully lobbied to have the US stop keeping track of Jews immigrating into the country). The definition of Jew isn't always the same (religiously observant vs racial). And Jews can and do conceal their origins, change their names, etc (crypsis). In America the tendency is to switch to a less distinctly Jewish name. In Israel the tendency is to change their names to something Hebrew. While the latter practice doesn't conceal Jewishness, it can conceal Polish origins, Hungarian origins, etc. It's by no means a simple task to determine world Jewish population over the period in question and it's actually very possible that millions of Jews could disappear in the statistics. Especially if Jews themselves had an interest in creating such an impression.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby forasanerworld » 4 weeks 1 day ago (Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:13 pm)

"Where did they go" assumes an uncertain starting point of how many there were, the IHR archive has a piece by Hankins that speaks of the great uncertainty and why censuses cannot be relied on.

I'm currently reading Henry Ford's "The International Jew", highly recommended, which makes two pertinent references, how Louis Marshall prevented the designation of Jew being an immigration/census question, all numbers being provided to Washington by the Zionist AJC, and two, that the sales of Passover bread suggested not the 3.5 million AJC number but 6 million in 1921.

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Re: Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps?

Postby Lamprecht » 4 weeks 1 day ago (Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:04 pm)

Simon Wiesenthal wrote after the liberation of the camps:
"The survivors spread over through Europe in an immense measureless tide. People hitch-hiked, stopped jeeps for the short journeys or clung to carriages on the demolished railways, without windows or doors. Some took a seat in the overflowing hay carts, other started off on foot."


from:
Image
Understanding the Jews, Understanding Anti-Semitism
http://archive.vn/WLq4h or http://web.archive.org/web/202007060117 ... -semitism/ or http://archive.is/JwYUR
PDF: https://archive.org/details/Understandi ... iSemitism/ or http://web.archive.org/web/202007060108 ... mitism.pdf
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer


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