WHY DID THE NAZIS NOT KILL EVERY JEW AT AUSCHWITZ?

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Messenger
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Postby Messenger » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:38 pm)

Petschau wrote:I agree that the German's were trying to save the prisoners through evacuation from soviet execution.

Don't be stupid. The concentration camps were awful places to be, especially near the end of the war, when food shortage and disease devastated the prison populations.

The Soviets were heavily influenced (if not run) by the Jews. Their influence can be seen in the fact that antisemitism carried the death penalty.

In any case, the Soviets were extremely unlikely to harm Jews.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:47 am)

Messenger wrote: The Soviets were heavily influenced (if not run) by the Jews. Their influence can be seen in the fact that antisemitism carried the death penalty.

In any case, the Soviets were extremely unlikely to harm Jews.

But what was possibly in the minds of the inmates of the Auschwitz camp at that point in time, before the Soviets arrived? Were they all sure that the Soviets would not harm them? Like a little deportation to Siberia or something like that? I am thinking here especially of inmates from Western Europe.

But the principal question of the thread: "Why did the Nazis not kill every Jew at Auschwitz?" is a good one.

Why not indeed.

I call it a killer phrase.


fge

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Postby JackBQuick » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:57 am)

Sailor wrote:
Messenger wrote: The Soviets were heavily influenced (if not run) by the Jews. Their influence can be seen in the fact that antisemitism carried the death penalty.

In any case, the Soviets were extremely unlikely to harm Jews.

But what was possibly in the minds of the inmates of the Auschwitz camp at that point in time, before the Soviets arrived? Were they all sure that the Soviets would not harm them? Like a little deportation to Siberia or something like that? I am thinking here especially of inmates from Western Europe.


fge


Josef Burg is a good example in this scenario. He is now 90 years old, was so happy when the Soviets came and he welcomed them when they invaded his country in 1939. But the Russians picked him up before the Germans came, together with some 3000 other Jews he says, and they were deported in cattle cars to Siberia.
The Holocaust belief was doomed from the beginning; it rests on a rotten foundation.

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Postby J William » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:36 am)

JackBQuick wrote:
Sailor wrote:
Messenger wrote: The Soviets were heavily influenced (if not run) by the Jews. Their influence can be seen in the fact that antisemitism carried the death penalty.

In any case, the Soviets were extremely unlikely to harm Jews.

But what was possibly in the minds of the inmates of the Auschwitz camp at that point in time, before the Soviets arrived? Were they all sure that the Soviets would not harm them? Like a little deportation to Siberia or something like that? I am thinking here especially of inmates from Western Europe.


fge


Let's see if I understand this correctly. I'll put myself into the camp and decide whether to evacuate with the SS or remain behind to come under Soviet juristiction. I could see that the SS was gassing and killing all Jews such as myself in homicidal gas chambers. I couldn't be sure if the Soviets would harm me or not. What choice would a prudent man make? Certain death by the SS after their use of me for labor was over or the possibility that the Soviets might harm me. If there were actual homicidal gas chambers as told by the exterminationists the choice to remain behind is obiviously the prudent choice. The fact that many chose to be evacuated with the SS belies the existence of homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz. Oh, I forgot; the people that chose to go with the SS didn't realize that there were homicidal gas chambers, didn't see the smoke and smell the burnt flesh. It was a big secret.

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Postby Petschau » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:28 am)

Let's see if I understand this correctly. I'll put myself into the camp and decide whether to evacuate with the SS or remain behind to come under Soviet juristiction. I could see that the SS was gassing and killing all Jews such as myself in homicidal gas chambers. I couldn't be sure if the Soviets would harm me or not. What choice would a prudent man make? Certain death by the SS after their use of me for labor was over or the possibility that the Soviets might harm me.

If there were actual homicidal gas chambers as told by the exterminationists the choice to remain behind is obiviously the prudent choice. The fact that many chose to be evacuated with the SS belies the existence of homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz. Oh, I forgot; the people that chose to go with the SS didn't realize that there were homicidal gas chambers, didn't see the smoke and smell the burnt flesh. It was a big secret.


You couldn't be sure if the Soviets would harm you?
If you were Russian, German, Hungarian, or Polish your death sentence was a given.

How is it you could see that the SS was gassing and killing all jews such as yourself?
If that were the case, why did they not kill Otto Frank, Primo Levi, or any of the other six thousand who chose to stay?

If you were a typical jew in the camp, you "heard" that jews were being gassed. Or perhaps you managed to get hold of one of the propaganda pamphlets that were air-dropped and littered the countryside.
These too stated that jews were being gassed.

If you were part of the selection process, as described by Primo Levi, all you saw was that those who were determiined to be unfit for labor were taken "somewhere". You did not see them taken to a "gas chamber".
However, if you were a typical jew, you read the War Refugee Board Report after the war, and surmised that the "rumors" you heard during the war were true.

How does seeing smoke, and smelling burning flesh prove the existance of a homicidal gas chamber?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:30 am)

I think J William is being sarcastic.
The claims of the absurd 'eyewitnesses' are shattered by the fact that so many Jews chose to retreat with the SS. The smoke 'blackening the sky', the tales of constant burning flesh, piles of bodies, etc. are shown to be just more lies. If the stories were true then the Jews would have necessarily seen such things and never have left with the Germans.

As well, the fact that the Germans released inmates from Auschwitz by the thousands exposes the fraudulence of the story.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby J William » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:07 pm)

Hannover wrote:I think J William is being sarcastic.
The claims of the absurd 'eyewitnesses' are shattered by the fact that so many Jews chose to retreat with the SS. The smoke 'blackening the sky', the tales of constant burning flesh, piles of bodies, etc. are shown to be just more lies. If the stories were true then the Jews would have necessarily seen such things and never have left with the Germans.

As well, the fact that the Germans released inmates from Auschwitz by the thousands exposes the fraudulence of the story.

- Hannover


Take it from me, I know J Willam was being sarcastic (ironic). At least one person realized I was using irony. Name one, just one, Auschwitz survivor that doesn't "know" there were homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz. I would assume that these same survivors "knew" there was a genocide program for all jews. It is absolutely ludicrous to think that a person who "knew" that the Germans wanted to exterminate all Jews would elect to evacuate with the SS. The very fact of elective evacuation with the SS for incarcerated Jews absolutely shatters the homicidal gas chamber myth at Auschwitz.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:30 pm)

Petschau wrote:
I agree that the German's were trying to save the prisoners through evacuation from soviet execution.


Messenger wrote:

Don't be stupid. The concentration camps were awful places to be, especially near the end of the war, when food shortage and disease devastated the prison populations.


I cannot think of any other reason, as to why the SS would take inmates with them, other than to save them. I mean what a hinderance to retreating troops, having hundreds of civvies tagging along, in fact the SS must have been a very soft touch to put up with it.

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Postby Willing to Learn » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:24 pm)

Where can I read more about the SS letting the prisoners choose between evacuating the camps or waiting for the Russians?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:43 pm)

Where can I read more about the SS letting the prisoners choose between evacuating the camps or waiting for the Russians?


$urvivor Primo Levi for starters, see:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby steve » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:40 pm)

J William wrote: "The fact that many chose to be evacuated with the SS belies the existence of homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz. Oh, I forgot; the people that chose to go with the SS didn't realize that there were homicidal gas chambers, ..."

Actually, one might have possibly argued that (no matter how unbelievable). However, Elie Wiesel, in one of his books, says he saw men, babies, etc., forced to march into fires(!). So, whether he believed there were Gas Chambers or not, if the evil Germans were forcing people to walk into flames(!), how is staying behind awaiting the Russians any worse?

Look, the bottom line is, the Holocausters are a bunch of liars. Period. The are not guilty of faulty memories or anything like that. They get away with this crap because people are incapable of being reasoned with, and also, it is understandable that the average person simply finds it too hard to believe that so many people can lie so brazenly. They are evil, lying bastards, just like Bobby Fischer says.

Another reason they get away with it is because too many gentiles are too forgiving. The Big H is a lie that parasites off innocent peoples.

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Postby Petschau » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:10 pm)

Hannover wrote:
Where can I read more about the SS letting the prisoners choose between evacuating the camps or waiting for the Russians?


$urvivor Primo Levi for starters, see:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

- H.


Okay, Okay, I took J Williams bait.
now let me off the hook :lol:

Since we are talking a little about Primo Levi, I would suggest that anyone interested in his book "Survival in Auschwitz" get a copy of the first edition.
I think it was 1961.
In addition to writing about having a choice in whether to stay or go, he also mentions the camp brothel (above the kitchen and staffed with Polish girls), and the camp commisary where prisoners could buy such things as tobacco.

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Postby J William » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:41 am)

Turpitz wrote: ]

I cannot think of any other reason, as to why the SS would take inmates with them, other than to save them. I mean what a hinderance to retreating troops, having hundreds of civvies tagging along, in fact the SS must have been a very soft touch to put up with it.


In my opinion it is naive to think that the reason the SS took inmates with was to save them. There had to be a use for the prisoners such as labor for things like anti-tank ditches and so forth. At that point in the war I feel that most SS personel cared little about the welfare of the internees and would only take them on the retreat if there was a useful purpose to be had.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:43 am)

Turpitz makes a strong point, as I can't think of anything that would slow down a retreating military force more than civilians in tow. While I doubt it was a lovefest, the Germans clearly went out of their way to help those who chose to leave with them.

The fact that the inmates were given a choice pretty much settles it. If the Germans had a clear cut 'slave labor' purpose for them they would not have let multitudes of healthy folks stay behind. The camps to the west were being flooded now with evacuees, more than could reasonably be put to work in some late hour war industry. The logical conclusion is that the Germans basically said: 'leave with us or wait for the Communists, it's not going be easy, but we'll do the best we can'.

The point may be getting lost here, so remember; if the Germans had an 'extermination policy' for Jews then all of this would not have happened.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby gasto » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:44 pm)

and such thing as "The State of Israel" would have never existed....
If Human Soap rumour was fake, why can´t all the other absurd claims be too??


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