WHY DID THE NAZIS NOT KILL EVERY JEW AT AUSCHWITZ?

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Malle
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Re: WHY DID THE NAZIS NOT KILL EVERY JEW AT AUSCHWITZ?

Postby Malle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:39 pm)

Messenger wrote:2) Why did the Germans not make the entire concentration camp system "just disappear"?

Do not tell me they did not have time. The timing was of their own choosing.

I don't agree.

Orthodox historians, when asked why there are no documents regarding the extermination of Jews, and why there are no mass graves in the "Extermination Camps," answer that the Germans tried to erase the proof; that's why they never wrote anything down and destroyed any existing documentation.

Then we have Graf/Mattogno in Moscow finding about 90,000 documents ONLY from Central Bauleitung in Auschwitz.

So you must understand, the SS had absolutely no time to knock off the last Jews. They were sorting documents instead.

But the amazing SS people, they manage to sort out EVERY single document that had anything to do with the gassings and still leave about 90,000 documents, and all this during the last months of the war. :shock:
I must be a mushroom - because everyone keeps me in the dark and feeds me with lots of bullshit.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:46 pm)

In my opinion it is naive to think that the reason the SS took inmates with was to save them. There had to be a use for the prisoners such as labor for things like anti-tank ditches and so forth. At that point in the war I feel that most SS personel cared little about the welfare of the internees and would only take them on the retreat if there was a useful purpose to be had.


I have my doubts about that. If all the SS were concerned about was labour, they would have sorted the inmates before they left the camp. What I mean by this is, they would have left the elderly, young and women and just taken the able bodied men.

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Postby steve » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:47 pm)

This is a very good thread. I must admit, the idea it contains never occurred to me.

Namely, I always tell people that since, while given the choice, many inmates choose to go with the Germans, rather than stay behind to be 'liberated' by the Soviets, pretty much refutes there being an extermination policy at Auschwitz.
But, it is not even necessary to add that many choose to go with the Germans. The fact that they were offered a choice at all implies there was no extermination plan at Auschwitz. For one, if they wanted them killed, why let them stay behind, and two, why leave so many witnesses?

As to why the Germans took many with them, at the risk of being called naive, I must say, I think it is because the Evil Nazis actually felt the prisoners' welfare was their responsibility. (So I guess I agree with Turpitz and Hannover.) Maybe I am incorrect, but, before some of you pooh-pooh this, let's consider. If the Germans had a practical reason for towing along the prisoners, why then, did children go along, and why were (relatively)healthy adults allowed to stay behind? (I just noticed Turpitz just posted this opinion. He beat me to it but it's worth repeating!) Since the Germans gave them a choice, is it possible EVERYONE of them could have stayed behind? Now, I do not KNOW the answer to that question, but if 'yes', then there simply could not have been a selfish reason for the Germans to take along the prisoners. They must have only done so because they felt an obligation.

You know, Butz talks about how simple this whole topic (The Big H) is. That tons of analysis is not needed. He gives his 8 (I think it was 8) simple reasons for the non-existence of the H in one of the supplements to his book. This thread gives another very simple reason. Much more convincing than 'holes', properties of Zyklon B, etc. And, it is so much easier to understand.

Good job!

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Postby kk » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:32 pm)

May I remind you:

The question is not really why " the SS did not destroy the camps".
I would be more enlightened to know "why the inmates didn't go east".
They voluntarily went west.

What the hell...

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Postby Messenger » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:59 pm)

kk wrote:"why the inmates didn't go east".
They voluntarily went west.


Some may have gone voluntarily, but I'm sure most were forced to go west.

Many would have joined the partisans on liberation and the Germans would be stupid to allow that.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:45 pm)

Messenger said:
Some may have gone voluntarily, but I'm sure most were forced to go west.

Many would have joined the partisans on liberation and the Germans would be stupid to allow that.

I don't buy that at all:

The partisans are not what the Germans were retreating from, the Red Army was.

There were thousands of healthy men & women left behind, who would have met the qualifications for partisan enlistment. Why leave them behind if partisan enlistment was a concern?

Would the Germans have said, 'OK, this one can be a partisan and that one cannot'?

Besides, the partisans were less of a factor in January of 1945 as the Red Army made it's final push. Auschwitz was not all that far from the German Reich where the partisans couldn't effectively operate.

The quoted argument doesn't wash.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Messenger » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:25 pm)

Hannover wrote:Messenger said:
Some may have gone voluntarily, but I'm sure most were forced to go west.

Many would have joined the partisans on liberation and the Germans would be stupid to allow that.

The quoted argument doesn't wash.


The argument washes fine,......

If for some strange reason you think the partisans had stopped fighting, you are wrong.

Many partisan groups just became part of the Red Army.

If you do not like the word partisan - then how about;
many would have joined the Red Army,
or, many would have done everything possible to harm the German cause.

Actually, I think it is your argument that does not wash so well.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:31 am)

So now Messenger changes its from 'partisans' to the 'Red Army'. Well okay, but the advancing Red Army is precisely the reason the Germans retreated from Auschwitz, and to whom the Germans allowed thousands of healthy inmates to await....while other thousands chose to retreat with the Germans (see earlier posts).

In essence, Messenger tries to say that the Germans forced Auschwitz inmates to evacuate in order to keep them out the hands of the partisans/Red Army .... which ignores those thousands who were permitted/chose to stay and fall directly into the hands of the Red Army.

That dog don't hunt.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby kk » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:35 am)

Some may have gone voluntarily, but I'm sure most were forced to go west.

Many would have joined the partisans on liberation and the Germans would be stupid to allow that.


Where did you read that? In Elie's "Night"?


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