What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

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Re: What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

Postby Archie » 10 months 3 days ago (Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:30 pm)

sfivdf21 wrote:Hello Archie, thanks for your reply and your information. That is to say, that if I have not misunderstood, until the 1970s the "Holocaust" was not presented to the people around the World as a "genocide" in which the majority of the "victims" were Jews? But then I have one last question. Despite the fact that the "Holocaust" was not presented at that time as the "eternal suffering" of the Jews, in the late 1940s, the 1950s and 1960s were the people throughout the Western World already massively brainwashed about the "evil" that supposedly were Adolf Hitler and the "Nazis"/the German people? What was the treatment that the Führer and the Third Reich received on the media and the schools in the late 1940s, the 1950s and the 1960s? Was it the same as today? Or was it more objective and truthful than from the 1970s to the current days?


Just because the Holocaust meme grew over time doesn't mean people didn't think Hitler was evil back in the day. In a war, the opposing leader is always portrayed as an evil monster. Saddam Hussein, for example. People were brainwashed then and we are brainwashed now, but the propaganda has changed over time. Persecution of Jews was always a part of the story but today "The Holocaust" is virtually 100% of it.

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Re: What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

Postby slob » 10 months 1 day ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:02 am)

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Re: What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

Postby slob » 10 months 1 day ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:43 am)

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Re: What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

Postby sfivdf21 » 10 months 13 hours ago (Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:00 pm)

Archie wrote:
sfivdf21 wrote:Hello Archie, thanks for your reply and your information. That is to say, that if I have not misunderstood, until the 1970s the "Holocaust" was not presented to the people around the World as a "genocide" in which the majority of the "victims" were Jews? But then I have one last question. Despite the fact that the "Holocaust" was not presented at that time as the "eternal suffering" of the Jews, in the late 1940s, the 1950s and 1960s were the people throughout the Western World already massively brainwashed about the "evil" that supposedly were Adolf Hitler and the "Nazis"/the German people? What was the treatment that the Führer and the Third Reich received on the media and the schools in the late 1940s, the 1950s and the 1960s? Was it the same as today? Or was it more objective and truthful than from the 1970s to the current days?


Just because the Holocaust meme grew over time doesn't mean people didn't think Hitler was evil back in the day. In a war, the opposing leader is always portrayed as an evil monster. Saddam Hussein, for example. People were brainwashed then and we are brainwashed now, but the propaganda has changed over time. Persecution of Jews was always a part of the story but today "The Holocaust" is virtually 100% of it.


I understand your point of view, but I do not agree 100%. Its obvious that in times of War, the enemy leader (in that case Adolf Hitler) is always portrayed as an "evil monster", but from the 1930s until his death, Adolf Hitler always counted not only with the love and loyalty of the overwhelming majority of the German people, but in addition it also had countless admirers in the rest of the world (including the countries that were enemies of Germany like Great Britain, France or the United States).
Hitler himself in a speech (I do not remember the date) denounced that the press and the media owned by the Jews were brainwashing the American people with anti-German/anti-Nationalsocialist hate propaganda in order to drag the country into a annihilation war against Germany that would only benefit the International Jewry. But he also stated that despite the constant anti-German propaganda in the United States, there were also many Americans who did not believe the lies that the Jews were telling about the Third Reich. Its clear that treating Adolf Hitler objectively and truthfully back then was much less dangerous than today, so I have the impression that in the 1930s and 1940s Hitler was not seen as a "monster" by many people from the enemy countries of Germany despite the propaganda of their rulers (in fact as I said before, Hitler also had so many sympathizers abroad).

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Re: What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

Postby sfivdf21 » 10 months 13 hours ago (Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:06 pm)

slob wrote:Image


Hello slob, thanks for your reply and your information. Could you send me this picture again, please? The framed content is too small and unreadable, thanks in advance.

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Re: What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

Postby slob » 10 months 13 hours ago (Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:16 pm)

sfivdf21 wrote:
slob wrote:Image


Hello slob, thanks for your reply and your information. Could you send me this picture again, please? The framed content is too small and unreadable, thanks in advance.


Hello, right click the image and open in new window, the image is enlarged tha way.

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Re: What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

Postby Sannhet » 9 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:38 pm)

Archie wrote:History books from the 50s do not talk much about the Holocaust


Here is a fun game to play, and I'm sure some of the regulars here have long played the game one way or another:

When you come across a paper edition of a book about the 1939-1945 war in Europe, or even any book about any aspect of the second quarter of the 20th century in Europe, you're ready to play. Step 1: Check the year of publication. Step 2: Check for whether the book says anything about the Holocaust (either using that word or not) and if so, what it says or how much it focuses on it. This game can be played using the index to jump to pages of interest on the relevant topics ("Jews," for one).

After a few rounds of this game, you can start to make a game of inserting a middle step: Guess what you'll get, based solely on year of publication and maybe one or two other factors (e.g., name of writer, wording of title of book, jacket blurbs). A prediction game.

If you have access to a good library with lots and lots of relevant original books, this game can be played easily, and it gives remarkably stable results.

Revisionism has to a large extent grown with "the Holocaust Industry." It was not until the late 70s that the term "the Holocaust" became firmly established and they started really pushing Holocaust indoctrination in schools and in the media (at least in America). Before this it was mostly a focus in Jewish circles. History books from the 50s do not talk much about the Holocaust. The first book length treatment of the Holocaust in English was Reitlinger in 1953, then Hilberg in 1961, both by Jewish writers. There was very little from mainstream historians.

The 70s were the real turning point. In particular, Arthur Butz's book in 1976 was probably the start of the modern revisionist era (and I would still recommend it as very worthwhile even today). There was also Did Six Million Really Die? in 1974 (more polemic than scholarly but still important). Wilhelm Staeglich published his Auschwitz book in the late 70s. And Robert Faurisson was another key figure in the 70s. And the Institute for Historical Review was also founded in the late 70s. The bottom line is that there was not much going on in the 50s and 60s and then there came a real flurry starting in the mid to late 70s, coinciding with the Holocaust propaganda blitz.


The game I propose above will confirm the outlines out this. The original poster here, or anyone else, need not take Archie's or my word for it, but find paper books and do it yourself. The pattern is unmistakable.

There is no book at all by the 1990s that fails to include the Holocaust, often even making it the very central theme of the entire work, permeating it like the religious myth it was by that time. But in the years much closer to the war itself, generally there is nothing like this; there might be some kind of footnote-type mentions (Jean Marie Le Pen was prosecuted for using the word "footnote" to describe the Holocaust, I believe, but the man was simply describing how reality was in the past). This held even as late as the mid-1970s.

I find this aspect of the Holocaust to be fascinating. This is beyond the study of the Holocaust as an event (or a supposed event), it's the study of Holocaust Power, a political phenomenon. It is traceable.

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Re: What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

Postby Archie » 8 months 1 week ago (Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:54 pm)

stinky wrote:
Archie wrote:
In attempting to explain the "new Holocaust consciousness sweeping the country," Rabbi Harvin Hier, dean of the Weisenthal Center, said he believed that, in addition to the NBC-TV program, the Skokie issue [note: the reference is to the "Nazi" march in Skokie Illinois that led to a Supreme Court case], neo-Nazism and "revisionist" writings [note: discusses Butz earlier in the article] had combined to give society a "big guilt conscience" because the subject "has been swept under the carpet" for more than 30 years.


Re the 'Skokie issue', as per kosher wikipedia;
Francis Joseph Collin (born November 3, 1944) is an American former political activist and Midwest coordinator with the American Nazi Party, later known as the National Socialist White People's Party


Collin was born and grew up in Chicago, Illinois, where he went to local schools. His father, Max Frank Collin, born Max Simon Cohn in Munich on August 23, 1913,[4] the son of Jewish parents who later perished in The Holocaust, was a survivor of Dachau concentration camp.[5] His mother, Virginia Gertrude née Hardyman (b. at Chicago on August 18, 1920), was Catholic.


I suspect that this may be common knowledge on this forum

Given the timing of the 'Skokie issue', NBC-TV's miniseries 'Holocaust', coupled with the other related items raised by Archie (New York Times articles from the same period etc) we have yet another of those curious cohen-cidences


Here's an old news segment from 1978 about Skokie. It makes the Holocaust connection really clear.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/skokie-legacy-nazi-march-town-holocaust-survivors/story?id=56026742

One odd thing is that the "Nazis" won the right to march in court but they ended up canceling their own march a few days beforehand. They ended up doing something in Chicago instead. The only rallies that actually occurred in Skokie were counter-protests against the fake Nazis who never actually showed up. In the link, there are pictures of the anti-Nazi rallies. They have signs that say "Never Again Treblinka" and "We Will Remember 6,000,000." Another point of interest is that this whole thing led to the opening of a Holocaust museum in Skokie in 1981.

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Re: What was the situation and the spread of the "Holocaust" Revisionism from the late 1940s to the early 1960s?

Postby Hannover » 8 months 1 week ago (Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:13 pm)

Hektor said:
But my guess would be that taking a stance against the gas-chamber-narrative wouldn't have been received too well by French Academia especially in the two decades after 1945 and perhaps even less afterwards.
In a prime example of 'holocaust' logic, the impossible 'gas chambers' were absurdly endorsed by 34 "reputable 'French' historians" and published in the French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979:
"One should not ask, how this mass murder was made possible. It was technically possible, because it happened. This has to be the obligatory starting-point for any historical research regarding this topic. We would just like to remind you: There is no debate regarding the existence of the gas chambers, and there can never be one."
- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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The Holocaust at the cusp of its breakthrough into the wider culture: ABC News segment airing April 19, 1978

Postby Sannhet » 8 months 1 week ago (Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:00 pm)

Archie wrote:an old news segment from 1978 about Skokie. It makes the Holocaust connection really clear.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/skokie-legacy-nazi-march-town-holocaust-survivors/story?id=56026742

One odd thing is that the "Nazis" won the right to march in court but they ended up canceling their own march a few days beforehand. They ended up doing something in Chicago instead. The only rallies that actually occurred in Skokie were counter-protests against the fake Nazis who never actually showed up. In the link, there are pictures of the anti-Nazi rallies. They have signs that say "Never Again Treblinka" and "We Will Remember 6,000,000." Another point of interest is that this whole thing led to the opening of a Holocaust museum in Skokie in 1981.

Good find.

That news segment has valuable material in it for purposes of reconstructing of Holocaust history, if properly contextualized.

Air date of this news segment: April 19, 1978, which is during the week the Holocaust TV miniseries aired. The news segment's airdate was, in fact, the same day as the final episode of Holocaust. The 2018 news story shows pictures it captions to 1977, which is "pre-Holocaust." This was the very beginning of the Holocaust Era as we understand it and a close look may be worth the time. I've written out some observations/thoughts and they became far too long to leave as a reply here, so will put them in another thread:

Snapshot of The Holocaust at the cusp of its breakthrough into the wider culture: ABC News segment airing April 19, 1978
.
By the way, Skokie is today (2010s) said to be:
- 30% Jewish,
- 35% White-Christian,
- up to 30% non-European immigrants, with South Asians, Filipinos, and Central Americans being the biggest single groups in roughly that order.

But back in the 1970s, during the controversy, Jews outnumbered White-Christians more than two-to-one.
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