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Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby gl0spana » 6 months 1 week ago (Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:51 pm)

According to Carlo Mattogno, the "intellectual powerhouse" of the revisionist movement, the Hoefle telegram and Korherr report are authentic documents that merely confirm Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor were transit camps.

Yet he does not mention that the Hoefle telegram was listed TOP SECRET, a coded message - strange they would need to hide such a noble thing as evacuating Jews from those ruinous ghettos.

More saliently, he does not mention that Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor had been well-surveilled by the Polish Underground and widely reported to be death camps since 1942*

I checked up on this apparent fact and hmm https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... =treblinka

Given B T and S were of course transit camps for Jewish "settlers", is this not an unfortunate coincidence? [y/n]

Or rather, is this proof of the deviousness of the enemy? (who would wait 50 years to lay down a sledgehammer like the Hoefle telegram) [y/n]

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby Werd » 6 months 1 week ago (Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:30 pm)

Why was Majdanek listed in the Hoefle telegram as part of the AR camp system. And we know that Majdanek did not have homicidal gas chambers. Eric Hunt (before he flipped) pointed this oddity out, among others.

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 1 week ago (Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:26 pm)

gl0spana wrote:According to Carlo Mattogno, the "intellectual powerhouse" of the revisionist movement, the Hoefle telegram and Korherr report are authentic documents that merely confirm Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor were transit camps.

Indeed, these documents do not discuss any genocide of European Jews. But they do help make sense of other documents that describe the purpose of the Aktion Reinhardt (AR) camps.

Korherr himself said regarding his report that "Special treatment" (Sonderbehandlung) meant "settled in the District of Lublin." See:
Korherr letter to Der Spiegel on "Special treatment" (Sonderbehandlung)
viewtopic.php?p=23448#p23448

Here are some other documents discussing these 3 AR camps that may help us to understand their purpose:

17 March 1942 Fritz Reuter memo on his conversation with Höfle
viewtopic.php?t=12417#p92065
Reuter explains that Jews sent unfit for work would be expelled from Poland via Belzec to the east, "cross the border and never return." Is that supposed to mean killed? Hoefle was Globocnik's deputy. Both Hoefle and Globkcnick "committed suicide" before being put on trial: Very convenient.

13 August 1942 Karl Wolff memo to Albert Ganzenmüller
viewtopic.php?t=10360
In response to "The Ganzenmuller Letter" regarding deporting Jews to Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka – Wolff stated that he was very glad to hear about their plan "to accelerate this population transfer" - a transfer into mass graves that cannot be shown to exist anywhere close to the quantities alleged? Mass graves don't have legs and can't travel.

The "Operation Reinhadt Secrecy Oath"
viewtopic.php?t=12924
The document says no photographing or talking about the camp is to be allowed for AR staff. Perhaps this explains the "lack of evidence" for resettlement. Regardless, it explains that the purpose of these camps was an "evacuation of Jews" policy. Some dishonest people try to use this as evidence of an extermination camp, but it is in no way incompatible with the transit camp thesis. It's just more "code word" conspiracy theorist tinfoil-hat nonsense.

5 July 1943 Himmler order "transit camp Sobibor is to be converted into a concentration camp"
viewtopic.php?t=4973 and https://codoh.com/library/document/lies ... obibor/en/
"The transit camp Sobibór is to be converted into a concentration camp. In the concentration camp a plant for the repair of captured munitions is to be established."

5 January 1944 Globocnik Report to Himmler (4024-PS) on Operation Reinhardt
viewtopic.php?t=12359
The document above explains quite clearly that AR was an operation to round up Jews, confiscate their wealth, and then deport them away to the newly occupied Eastern territories.

Yet he does not mention that the Hoefle telegram was listed TOP SECRET, a coded message - strange they would need to hide such a noble thing as evacuating Jews from those ruinous ghettos.
And he didn't mention that water is wet either, so what? Anyone who knows about the telegraph knows what was typed.

As for "Noble" -- the idea of mass-resettling Jews from one place to another was considered to be rather controversial, much like the T4 Euthanasia program. From: viewtopic.php?t=9280

3244-PS Martin Bormann on the solution of the Jewish Problem
"Preparatory Measures for the Solution of the Jewish Problem in Europe - Rumors About the Position of the Jews in the East. V.I. 66/881 of the 9 Oct., 1942
In the course of the work on the final solution of the Jewish problem, discussions about 'very strict measures' against the Jews, especially in the Eastern territories, have lately been taking place within the population of the various areas of the Reich. Investigations showed that such discussions-mostly in a distorted and exaggerated form-were passed on by soldiers on leave from various units committed in the East, who had the opportunity to eye-witness these measures. It is conceivable that not all 'Blood Germans' are capable of demonstrating sufficient understanding for the necessity of such measures, especially not those parts of the population which do not have the opportunity of visualizing bolshevist atrocities on the basis of their own observations... A complete removal or withdrawal of the millions of Jews residing in the European economic space [Wirtschaftsraum] is therefore an urgent need in the fight for the security of existence of the German people."


More saliently, he does not mention that Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor had been well-surveilled by the Polish Underground and widely reported to be death camps since 1942*
Atrocity propaganda is part of war. You have been challenged to show these alleged "huge mass graves" at Treblinka 2, Belzec, and Sobibor:

Challenge to exterminationist gl0spana on alleged mass graves // $100,000+ reward
viewtopic.php?t=13321

You claimed in that thread linked above that there exists, today, in precisely known locations:
"10 olympic sized swimming pools worth of [mass] graves"
at Belzec. But you cannot show us one single "huge mass grave" from Belzec containing the remains of a mere 1% of the alleged victims of this camp.


I checked up on this apparent fact and hmm https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... =treblinka

Indeed, the "Allied" propaganda was well known and has been discussed here.
You give a 26 November 1942 report. Here's another example from about a month later.

30 Dec 1942, The Evening Advocate (Innisfail, Qld) p. 2:
"Polish Jews seek death. Jews herded into Polish concentration camps, knowing they are to be massacred, bribe the guards to shoot them... Polish Government in London... report says that most of the executions were carried out at special murder camps... At Belzec an electrocution camp was established... The condemned are carried off to execution camps at Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor."

Electrocution camp? I thought Jews were allegedly gassed at Belzec, not electrocuted. See more examples: viewtopic.php?p=95757#p95757

No wonder so many people didn't take them seriously. On 27 August 1943, the chairman of the Britain's Joint Intelligence Committee, Victor Cavendish-Bentinck, commented:
"The Poles, and to a far greater extent the Jews, tend to exaggerate German atrocities in order to stoke us up... These mass executions in gas chambers remind me of the story of employment of human corpses during the last war for the manufacture of fat, which was a grotesque lie and led to the true stories of German enormities being brushed aside as being mere propaganda."

Another British Foreign Office official, Roger Allen, noted (17 July 1943):
"It is true that there have been references to the use or gas chambers in other reports; but these references have usually, if not always, been equally vague, and since they have concerned the extermination of Jews, have usually emanated from Jewish sources... These stories may or may not be true, but in any event I submit we are putting out a statement on evidence which is far from conclusive..."

These two telegrams are on Irving's site here: http://archive.is/tmuK0

At the suggestion of the British government, it was therefore agreed to delete the reference to gas chambers from a joint Allied declaration on German atrocities in Poland that was issued later that year by Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin. (B. Wasserstein, 1979, "Britain and the Jews of Europe, 1939–1945", pp. 295–96)

Given B T and S were of course transit camps for Jewish "settlers", is this not an unfortunate coincidence? [y/n]

What coincidence? The Hoefle telegram says nothing at all about Jews being exterminated in these camps. The only "coincidence" is that these "top secret" documents consistently state that the purpose of these camps was not for exterminating Jews.

What we see is that, during the war, the "Allies" were arguing that the Germans had a secret conspiracy wherein they would type "Resettlement to the east" on a typewriter and that was supposed to be interpreted as "kill in gas chambers."

But why didn't the Germans also make fake outbound train records claiming Jews were resettled to the east in such a case? That doesn't make sense. The charge the exterminationists are making is that the Germans engaged in a secret conspiracy to use the term "resettle" in official, top secret documents to mean "shove into gas chambers."

For the most part, the outbound records from these camps are missing so we have no idea what they said. Empty trains? We can only guess.

Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?
viewtopic.php?t=2355

Or rather, is this proof of the deviousness of the enemy? (who would wait 50 years to lay down a sledgehammer like the Hoefle telegram) [y/n]
It is not much of a "sledgehammer" since it says nothing about these transitees being killed. Additionally, the alleged "huge mass graves" which would exist if the story was true have not been shown. It's simply describing a number of transports.
Transported to where? I do not know, I do not have a bunch of 7+ decades old war-time travel itineraries.

Image

But if they were truly gassed, burned in giant outdoor pyres, and buried in enormous pits then that could certainly be shown to exist. Today. It wouldn't take very much money or effort to do so either; instead, investigation is not allowed.
Last edited by Lamprecht on Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby gl0spana » 6 months 1 week ago (Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:27 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:
gl0spana wrote:
Korherr himself said regarding his report that "Special treatment" (Sonderbehandlung) meant "settled in the District of Lublin." See:


I'm sorry I can't answer to all of your points (don't have time unfortunately) but the Lublin line has never made sense to me.

#1 - it is clearly within the General Government, which according to the Korherr report was largely cleared of Jews. In particular, in the report Lublin is only cited as having 20k Jews.

#2 - the placement of the camps does not suggest Jews from the GG were going to Lublin.

Look

Image

Belzec in particular is said to have processed over 400k by the end of 1942, and according to reports saw a massive influx of Jews being transported to it, yet Belzec is clearly out of the way. I can't imagine the Germans would divert so many Jews from the GG like this.

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby HMSendeavour » 6 months 1 week ago (Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:46 pm)

gl0spana wrote:Yet he does not mention that the Hoefle telegram was listed TOP SECRET, a coded message - strange they would need to hide such a noble thing as evacuating Jews from those ruinous ghettos.


Is that some kind of indictment? The fact that it was labelled "TOP SECRET" does nothing at all to turn the Hoefle telegram into proof for Genocide. I don't see how you can possibly jump to such a ridiculous conclusion. You can come up whatever reason YOU want about why YOU think it shouldn't be top secret, but it doesn't matter what you think, just because you can come up with some pet theory about something based on no evidence or proof and juxtapose it with reality doesn't turn what happened in reality into a crime of mass murder.

So let me present you with my pet theory. Perhaps it was TOP SECRET because if it weren't, and it got out to some partisans, they might attempt to attack the transit system to the east and create a swell of new partisans. You can, in your imagination, come up with tons of reasons why it might be TOP SECRET. But it doesn't matter, because none of these reasons have any basis in reality, same goes for your "gotcha" moment where you think you caught Mattogno in some kind of bind because you claimed, without evidence, that they'd have no reason to hide it.

gl0spana wrote:More saliently, he does not mention that Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor had been well-surveilled by the Polish Underground and widely reported to be death camps since 1942*

I checked up on this apparent fact and hmm https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... =treblinka

Given B T and S were of course transit camps for Jewish "settlers", is this not an unfortunate coincidence? [y/n]

Or rather, is this proof of the deviousness of the enemy? (who would wait 50 years to lay down a sledgehammer like the Hoefle telegram) [y/n]


I do not see what you think you've proven. What about the "evidence" that you've posted in your OP pushes you to the conclusion that it was genocide? What makes the Polish Underground trustworthy? Do you think it MUST be mass murder because the coded message was Top Secret and a newspaper claimed mass murder was going on, and you think that these two things reenforce each other as truth? If so, how? How are these two separate things going to prove that the AR camps were death camps? I just do not see the connection you think you'd made which you act contradicts the revisionists.

What's the coincidence? Partisans will lie about murder and spread atrocity propaganda to their allies, shocker. Mattogno knows full well about the Polish underground, whom are responsible for the Auschwitz Myth: http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=41

Carlo Mattogno: The Making of the Auschwitz Myth—Auschwitz in British Intercepts, Polish Underground Reports and Postwar Testimonies (1941-1947).

Carlo Mattogno. Using messages sent by the Polish underground to London, SS radio messages send to and from Auschwitz that were intercepted and decrypted by the British, and a plethora of witness statements made during the war and in the immediate postwar period, the author shows how exactly the myth of mass murder in Auschwitz gas chambers was created, and how it was turned subsequently into “history” by intellectually corrupt scholars who cherry-picked claims that fit into their agenda and ignored or actively covered up literally thousands of lies of “witnesses” to make their narrative look credible. Ca. 300 pp., b&w illustrations, bibliography, index. (Scheduled for mid-2020; #41)

41l-min.jpg
Auschwitz myth.PNG
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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby gl0spana » 6 months 1 week ago (Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:20 pm)

HMSendeavour wrote:
gl0spana wrote:Yet he does not mention that the Hoefle telegram was listed TOP SECRET, a coded message - strange they would need to hide such a noble thing as evacuating Jews from those ruinous ghettos.


I do not see what you think you've proven. What about the "evidence" that you've posted in your OP pushes you to the conclusion that it was genocide? What makes the Polish Underground trustworthy? Do you think it MUST be mass murder because the coded message was Top Secret and a newspaper claimed mass murder was going on, and you think that these two things reenforce each other as truth? If so, how? How are these two separate things going to prove that the AR camps were death camps? I just do not see the connection you think you'd made which you act contradicts the revisionists.


It's not proof of course, there's no such thing as absolute proof in a historical sense. We haven't invented a time machine.

I would say it's interesting that the P Underground reported these - and ONLY these (as far as I know?) - to be extermination camps.

The Hoefle telegram confirms details from the Korherr report on the amount of Jews evacuated from the GG, and adds some new ones, most notably that the majority of Jews were evacuated through these 3 camps which are the ONLY camps reported by the P Underground in 42/43 to be extermination camps (as opposed to concentration camps which 'employed' thousands)

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby Hannover » 6 months 1 week ago (Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:53 pm)

gl0spana,

Your views here, and those of the "Holocaust Industry", cannot possibly be factual. Such irrational views are easily demolished by two basic facts:

1. The many, many, many millions of human remains that necessarily would have accumulated as a result of the alleged actions that you believe occurred simply do not exist. It is the promoters of the narrative, which you believe to be factual, who claim that such immense human remains exist in known locations. In fact, those claimed remains do not exist.
The alleged '6,000,000 Jews & 5,000,000 others' are a bit more than the population total of London, England.

2. The alleged 'gas chambers', that were supposedly the primary murder weapon, are scientifically impossible as alleged.
You cannot explain to us how such absurd 'gas chambers' could have accomplished the alleged tasks.

It's also noted that you avoided:
Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4558

And you avoided the fact that the Korherr Report is explained by Richard Korherr himself.
The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960:

"It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician...is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned."

Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler's order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.

The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word "died" in this context.

It was precisely the term "special treatment" (sonderbehandlung) that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.

Dr. Richard Korherr
Braunschweig
Nr. 28, July 1977, p. 72-74, Der SPIEGEL, an article commenting on the controversy surrounding David Irving's book "Hitler's War" under the title : HITLER -- Kecke Revision.
Korherr's letter appears among a series of reactions ("Hitler gegen Irving") by people like Robert M. W. Kempner or the historians John Toland and Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm An English translation of the letter was presented during Udo Walendy's testimony at the Zündel trial 1988.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby HMSendeavour » 6 months 1 week ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:52 am)

gl0spana wrote:The Hoefle telegram confirms details from the Korherr report on the amount of Jews evacuated from the GG


That's all well and good, but it doesn't prove exterminations. I've seen the ridiculous argument before that just because two documents align in the number of Jews deported, therefore it proves exterminations somehow. That's like, a big point according to the exterminationists. When it doesn't prove anything but what we already agree on, that the National Socialists were deporting Jews to the east.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby HMSendeavour » 6 months 1 week ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:56 am)

Hannover wrote:2. The alleged 'gas chambers', that were supposedly the primary murder weapon, are scientifically impossible as alleged.
You cannot explain to us how such absurd 'gas chambers' could have accomplished the alleged tasks.


Well, with the AR camps that's not necessarily the narrative as you know, We're not talking about Auschwitz here, so gassings isn't particularly relevant when there's a variety of "extermination" methods attributed to the "death camps" further inside the German occupation of Russia. People will harp on starvation, shootings, mobile gas vans or some such nonsense.

I'm not saying gassing cannot be talked about in this context, only that they're not the most important of claims to be dealt with. People are still under the illusion that the Germans were burning hundreds of corpses on hude pyres and so on. Somehow making all the evidence disappear! Even though, if this were true, surely the exterminationists would have a tough time even proving such an action took place without relying heavily on unverifiable hearsay. As they already do.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby HMSendeavour » 6 months 1 week ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:13 am)

Lamprecht wrote:
Yet he does not mention that the Hoefle telegram was listed TOP SECRET, a coded message - strange they would need to hide such a noble thing as evacuating Jews from those ruinous ghettos.


And he didn't mention that water is wet either, so what? Anyone who knows about the telegraph knows what was typed.


Exactly. As it was "TOP SECRET" surely, if the Telegram were outlining policy as to the "extermination of the Jews" it wouldn't hold back in it's wording if it was to indicate that goal for the person on the other end, who presumably knows of this "plan". It makes little sense why such a document would need to be "interpreted" to fit the narrative of extermination when by using occam's razor it's clearly just a document related to deportation. Nothing sinister about it, no genocide conspiracy need be made of it. The fact that it lacks anything murderous or genocidal while being marked "TOP SECRET" is yet another nail in the coffin of the exterminationist conspiracy theory as to the fate of the Jews in WW2.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby borjastick » 6 months 1 week ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:26 am)

The words Top Secret would have been used on many hundreds and perhaps thousands of communications throughout the war period by all sides. It is standard practice to code material that would have an advantage to the enemy if it got in their hands. Troop movements, supply columns, targets, changes of orders etc etc.

The issue here is that GloPlug is showing just one item and claiming this makes the content significant in the mass murder of jews argument. It doesn't. I would challenge him to show us all the many other Top Secret transmissions which had zero to do with anything related and directly incriminating concerning the holocaust. No doubt he won't be able to do this.
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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby Hannover » 6 months 1 week ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:32 am)

HMSendeavour wrote:
Hannover wrote:2. The alleged 'gas chambers', that were supposedly the primary murder weapon, are scientifically impossible as alleged.
You cannot explain to us how such absurd 'gas chambers' could have accomplished the alleged tasks.


Well, with the AR camps that's not necessarily the narrative as you know, We're not talking about Auschwitz here, so gassings isn't particularly relevant when there's a variety of "extermination" methods attributed to the "death camps" further inside the German occupation of Russia. People will harp on starvation, shootings, mobile gas vans or some such nonsense.

No offense, but it IS the narrative, it appears you are confused.
It's claimed that both Auschwitz and the AR sites used 'gas chambers',
And indeed, it's also absurdly claimed that at least 2,000,000 Jews were shot into enormous mass graves in eastern Europe, which do not exist.
It's also claimed that '5,000,000 others' were killed in the same ways.

from Zionist controlled Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard:
As many as two million Jews were sent to Bełżec, Sobibór, and Treblinka to be put to death in purpose-built gas chambers.

Cheers, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby HMSendeavour » 6 months 1 week ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:50 am)

Hannover wrote:No offense, but it IS the narrative, it appears you are confused.
It's claimed that both Auschwitz and the AR sites used 'gas chambers',
And indeed, it's also absurdly claimed that at least 2,000,000 Jews were shot into enormous mass graves in eastern Europe, which do not exist.
It's also claimed that '5,000,000 others' were killed in the same ways.

from Zionist controlled Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard:
As many as two million Jews were sent to Bełżec, Sobibór, and Treblinka to be put to death in purpose-built gas chambers.

Cheers, Hannover


Fair enough, I must confess, I was under the impression that gassing was a lot less apart of the AR narrative, or at least, the Holocaust narrative in that part of the Soviet Union. Tunnel visioning the Holocaust by bullets I suppose.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby Hannover » 6 months 1 week ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:51 pm)

HMSe said:
Fair enough, I must confess, I was under the impression that gassing was a lot less apart of the AR narrative, or at least, the Holocaust narrative in that part of the Soviet Union. Tunnel visioning the Holocaust by bullets I suppose.
No worries.

I do, however, understand why you and the public in general are being re-directed to the equally impossible "holocaust by bullets" claim.

The Holocaust Industry wants the 'gas chambers' claims in general to fade into the background because those claims have been so easily refuted, utterly exposed as fraudulent.

But now they must contend with the fact that their preposterous claim of "holocaust by bullets" has been so easily refuted by yet another of their very own lies which says that the remains of those millions allegedly shot actually exist in enormous mass graves in known locations. Those claimed remains simply do not exist.

'O, what a tangled web they weave when first they practise to deceive'.

Regards, Hannover
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Re: Hoefle telegram / Korherr report / news articles

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 1 week ago (Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:50 pm)

gl0spana wrote:I'm sorry I can't answer to all of your points (don't have time unfortunately) but the Lublin line has never made sense to me.

We call that fallacy "argument from personal incredulity". Possibly a strawman too, but I don't know what you mean by "Lublin line" - Korherr merely stated that he asked what the vague "special treatment" term meant and reiterated what he claims he was told.

#1 - it is clearly within the General Government, which according to the Korherr report was largely cleared of Jews. In particular, in the report Lublin is only cited as having 20k Jews.

The 20,000 number you refer to is "estimated" (geschätzt) and is obvious nonsense, contradicted by the genuine Franke-Griksch Report and elsewhere. There is also a separate figure of 14,348 Jewish deaths in Lublin so your "code word" conspiracy theory makes no sense. The figures in the Korherr report should not be taken literally, he was likely instructed to inflate or change certain numbers, such as decreasing the number of Jews that fled prior to the German military's arrival, and counting those Jews as deported instead.

The 11 January 1943 telegram by Hoefle summarizes AR deportations for Treblinka 2, Sobibor, Belzec and Lublin/Majdanek up to 31 December 1943. Hoefle was the "Coordinator" of AR & Globocnik's deputy, the man claimed to be responsible for the Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor "extermination camps."

The "Top secret" telegram (intercepted & decoded by the British) has no mention of mass murder at all. It includes the "1,274,166" total also found in the Korherr report. Hoefle was with Globocnik when he "committed suicide" on 31 May 1945. Hoefle was released after being interrogated but later was arrested in 1961. Shortly thereafter, he also "committed suicide" before being put on trial.

23 March 1943 is when the initial, 16-page version of Korherr report regarding "the Final Solution to the Jewish Question" was submitted for the purpose of estimating the change in the number of Jews in Nazi-controlled territory from 1933 to 31 December 1942.

There are three versions of Korherr's report with one for only Hitler and Himmler. In this 6 and a half paged abridged version, the vague term "Special treatment" (Sonderbehandlung) was removed by Himmler's request (except in one instance where it was included under "Evacuation"). Korherr said post-war that he was told that the phrase did not mean killing in that instance.

Along with the same 1.27 million figure as the Hoefle telegram, there is also a "1,873,549" figure under "Evacuations total (including Theresienstadt and including special treatment)".

Again, it must be pointed out that it is unlikely that these numbers are totally accurate as there was an incentive to reach certain benchmarks. And an unknown number in these figures would be Jews who self-deported (emigrated), many were certainly double-counted. There are plenty of threads on the Korherr report if you use the search function, it has been widely discussed here.

The most significant part of the report is the following portion:

Code: Select all

1. Evacuation of Jews from Baden and the Palatinate to France:   6,504


2. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich territory including the Protectorate and Bialystok district to the East:   170,642


3. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich area and the Protectorate to Theresienstadt:   87,193


4. Transportation of Jews from the eastern provinces to the Russian East:    1,449,692

   The following numbers were sifted through the camps in the General government:  1,274,166
   through the camps in the Warthegau:   145,301


5. Evacuation from other countries, namely:

   France (insofar as occupied before 10.11.1942): 41,911
   Netherlands:   38,571
   Belgium:   16,886
   Norway:   532
   Slovakia:   56,691
   Croatia:   4,927


Evacuations total (including Theresienstadt and including special treatment):   1,873,549

w/o Theresienstadt:   1,786,356

The 1,873,549 figure "Evacuations total (including Theresienstadt and including special treatment)" includes other figures from the report: under #1 (6,504), #2 (170,642), #3 (Theresienstadt: 87,193), #4 (special treatment: 1,449,692), and #5 (159,518).

So "Special treatment" cannot refer to these 5 items except #3, otherwise it wouldn't say "including Theresienstadt and special treatment" as the other "evacuations" would fall under "special treatment."

#2 - the placement of the camps does not suggest Jews from the GG were going to Lublin.

Look

Image

Majdanek was for the most part a temporary center. It was right there in the middle of Lublin and had major railroads going through it

Image

Korherr said, when he called up to ask what "Special treatment" meant, he was told "it referred to Jews who would be settled in the district of Lublin."

If you could show us the alleged "huge mass graves" at the so-called "extermination camps" you believe millions of Jews were dumped into, you may have a point. But you have not done so.

Belzec in particular is said to have processed over 400k by the end of 1942, and according to reports saw a massive influx of Jews being transported to it, yet Belzec is clearly out of the way. I can't imagine the Germans would divert so many Jews from the GG like this.

"Is said to have ... I can't imagine"
You can only imagine one thing: mass murder. I have remarked on this personal inclination of yours; "we all know that Hitler didn't like Jews, so why not just slaughter every last one of them?"
You are puzzled, you can't imagine why someone wouldn't slaughter millions of people just because they don't like them. But that really is not the default solution and only shows a lack of problem-solving ability, or a strong desire to believe that it happened.

There is no reason why Jews settled in Lublin could not have been later sent to Belzec or somewhere else by train. There is also no reason why Jews who were supposed to be settled in Lublin could not have been settled somewhere else instead as conditions changed.
I still cannot grasp why you think all of these actions were supposed to have happened instantaneously.

You're obsessed with this "well where did they go then?" shtick when it is you and the other exterminationists that are claiming to know precisely where they went. I don't know the precise locations of millions of people at every moment during WWII, I don't have these travel itineraries. Without them, I cannot imagine how someone would know where they went ... unless they never left that spot. In which case: they're still there, just covered in a layer of soil. And that could easily be proven, but it is not. And since one side could easily prove their argument but chooses not to, their position is de facto weaker. No wonder they need laws to imprison those who speak out in criticism...
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


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