David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Sannhet » 5 days 14 hours ago (Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:57 am)

Jim Rizoli, Diane King, and Fred Leuchter recorded a response to this David Cole video:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/7SM0HcSDbYZ3/

Fred Leuchter - Jim Rizoli - Diane King - response to David Cole - July 22 2020.png

Leuchter relates an anecdote about what Ernst Zundel really thought of David Cole; Leuchter says he has come to believe that Cole probably had ties to the Mossad and was infiltrating Revisionism from the start.

I believe this qualifies as a new thread of discussion and am going to make a new thread for it; more from the response video here:

Fred Leuchter says he believes David Cole was sent to infiltrate Revisionism in the 1990s.

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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby EtienneSC » 3 days 18 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:17 am)


There is another episode. I would ignore the first 32 minutes which are clowning and insults and an argument that documents are a primary source. He says that a friend of his drew Eric Hunt away from revisionism. Thereafter he gets down to business and cites Faurisson, Graf and Mattogno ("deniers"), opposing them to himself, David Irving and Mark Weber ("historians").

Primary evidence
He cites Goebbels (diary), Himmler, Kube, Lohse, Strauss and Stroop, the Korherr report (a "master statistician" who was given "all the figures" by the SS). Korherr is the source of his 2.4 million figure ("todesfallen") - 1.8 million Polish, 0.6 million Russian (see section V. of the Korherr report). This is his "primary" and "documentary" evidence.

Supplementary evidence
Then there is "the complete lack of evidence that anything else happened". This is a point he dwells on at some length.

Kurt Franz, Frans Stangl and Franz Suchomel all told the same story and never changed it.

There were revolts at Sobibor and Treblinka (anomalous behaviour).

Himmler ordered the camps erased (anomalous behaviour).

Conclusion
Revisionists should accept their limited victories and make ethical arguments about the Aktion Reinhard other killings.

He makes a sensible and structured argument, though it is easy enough to argue with by closely reading the documents. The lack of evidence of transported Jews in the East between 1942 and 1945 is certainly a weakness in the history of Aktion Reinhard.
Last edited by EtienneSC on Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 days 17 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:42 am)

"The lack of evidence of transported Jews in the East is certainly a weakness in the history of Aktion Reinhard."

This argument is slowly but steadily losing its ground. Several people were transited through the Reinhard camps.

https://inconvenienthistory.com/12/2/7311

And then, if they weren't transisted, why can't we find the remains of the jews in the locations, where they were supposedly cremated and burried? Well, because they weren't cremated and burried, where the believers say. That really settles this.

I wonder, why he doesn't mention the "Höfle-Telegram"? For the time being it is considered to be the best documentary evidence for the extermination of Jews in the Reinhard camps.

Oh well, I'll tell you why:

1. The document does not mention any extermination.
2. The Hoefle-telegram lists Majdanek among the Reinhard camps and he cannot square that with the pure extermination camp hypothesis. David Cole doesn't believe that Majdanek was an extermination camp. Majdanek has been officially deleted from the list of extermination camps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram

I think that puts David Cole between a Rock and a hard stone. If he believes that Majdanek was not an extermination camp, then the Reinhard camps were not extermination camps. If he believes that the "Aktion Reinhard" was a policy of extermination, then Majdanek was part of this extermination policy.
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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Archie » 3 days 16 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:44 am)

EtienneSC wrote:Thereafter he gets down to business and cites Faurisson, Graf and Mattogno ("deniers"), opposing them to himself, David Irving and Mark Weber ("historians").


He would come off a lot more credible if he didn’t pretend like he (and Weber) haven’t changed their tune. He should just admit it and explain his reasons. Doesn’t he realize that all the JHR archives are online and we can go back and read what they were saying in the 80s and early 90s and that it’s apparent that the “revisionists” of that era didn’t believe in gas chambers or an extermination program?

Primary evidence
He cites Goebbels (diary), Himmler, Kube, Lohse, Strauss and Stroop, the Korherr report (a "master statistician" who was given "all the figures" by the SS). Korherr is the source of his 2.4 million figure ("todesfallen") - 1.8 million Polish, 0.6 million Russian (see section V. of the Korherr report). This is his "primary" and "documentary" evidence.


Weren’t most of these arguments already known in the early 90s? I want to hear Weber and Cole explain why they weren’t impressed with the Koherr report until the mid 90s.

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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 days 16 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:55 am)

O.K. so I got hold of the corherr report and took a look at it.

https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/kor ... r-lang.php

The term "Todesfalle" is not mentioned in the Korherr report. Todesfalle means "death trap". It doesn't really make any sense.

The expression I find is "Todesfälle", which means cases of deaths. This word is indeed used in two different places:

"VII. DIE JUDEN IN DEN KONZENTRATIONSLAGERN

In den Konzentrationslagern erfolgten von der Machtergreifung bis zum 31.12.1942

73 417 Einlieferungen von Juden

davon

wurden entlassen 36 943

sind durch Tod abgegangen 27 347

Restbestand vom 31.12.42: 9 127 Juden"

In English:

VII. THE JEWS IN THE CONCENTRATION CAMPs

In the concentration camps, from the seizure of power until December 31, 1942

73,417 consignments of Jews

from that

were released 36 943

left by death 27 347

Remaining stock from 12/31/42: 9,127 Jews"

Thus, according to the Korherr report from 1933 (seizure of power of the Nazis) until December 31, 1942 a total of 27 347 Jews had died in German concentration camps. This doesn't appear to support the exterminationist story does it?

And these are the final words of the Korherr report:

"Von 1937 bis Anfang 1943 dürfte die Zahl der Juden in Europa teils durch Auswanderung, teils durch den Sterbeüberschuß der Juden in Mittel- und Westeuropa, teils durch die Evakuierungen vor allem in den völkisch stärkeren Ostgebieten, die hier als Abgang gerechnet werden, um schätzungsweise 4 Millionen zurückgegangen sein. Dabei darf nicht übersehen werden, daß von den Todesfällen der sowjetrussischen Juden in den besetzten Ostgebieten nur ein Teil erfaßt wurde, während diejenigen im übrigen europäischen Rußland und an der Front überhaupt nicht enthalten sind. Dazu kommen uns unbekannte Wanderungsströme der Juden innerhalb Rußlands in den asiatischen Bereich hin-

-16-

über. Auch der Wanderungsstrom der Juden aus den europäischen Ländern außerhalb des deutschen Einflusses ist eine weitgehend unbekannte Größe. Insgesamt dürfte das europäische Judentum seit 1933, also im ersten Jahrzehnt der nationalsozialistischen deutschen Machtentfaltung, bald die Hälfte seines Bestandes verloren haben."


"From 1937 to the beginning of 1943, the number of Jews in Europe is estimated to have declined by 4 million, partly due to emigration, partly due to the excess death (Sterbeüberschuss means that more people die than are born) of Jews in Central and Western Europe, partly due to the evacuations, especially in the ethnically stronger eastern areas, which are counted here as reduction. It should not be overlooked that only a part of the deaths of the Soviet Russian Jews in the occupied eastern territories has been recorded, while those in the rest of European Russia and on the front are not included at all. In addition, we are faced with unknown migration flows of Jews within Russia to the Asian region.

-16-

-16-

The migratory flow of Jews from European countries outside of German influence is also largely unknown. Overall, European Jewry has probably lost half of its numbers since 1933, i.e. in the first decade of German National Socialist power."

So the evacuation of European Jews from the eastern areas is counted as a reduction of the total number of Jews in Europe. Sounds to me like they were evacuated to the east.

The Korherr report appears to support the revisionist side. According to the report 27 347 had died until December 31, 1942 in Concentration camps. The exterminationists claim that roughly 1,5 Million had died in the Reinhard concentration camps until December 31, 1942.

But, this is David's best piece of evidence? Really?
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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Sannhet » 3 days 15 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:19 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:O.K. so I got hold of the corherr report and took a look at it.

The expression I find is "Todesfälle", which means cases of deaths. This word is indeed used in two different places:


I wonder if David Cole has read the full book-length Revisionist investigation into the Korherr Report? Richard Korherr and His Reports (1993) by Stephen Challen, available in PDF at CODOH. It appears that the only reason we even know about the Korherr Report at all was the work of Challen, who found the report in the archives and made a long-running project of it.

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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 days 15 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:07 am)

"I wonder if David Cole has read the full book-length Revisionist investigation into the Korherr Report?"

Probably not. I think he is deliberately lying, because he spins the word "Todesfälle" to mean that the Korherr Report tells us that more than 2 million jews were killed. According to the report 27 347 had died (Todesfälle) until December 31, 1942 in concentration camps.

Either Mr. Cole is just repeating the lies that he has been told or he is deliberately deceiving his listeners. I wonder why he curses so much in his videos.

Chapter V of the Korherr Report is entitled

"V. DIE EVAKUIERUNG DER JUDEN

Die Evakuierung der Juden löste, wenigstens im Reichsgebiet, die Auswanderung der Juden ab. Sie wurde seit dem Verbot der jüdischen Auswanderung ab Herbst 1941 in großem Stile vorbereitet und im Jahre 1942 im gesamten Reichsgebiet weitgehend durchgeführt."

"The evacuation of the Jews.

The evacuation of the Jews, at least within the Reich, replaced the emigration of the jews. It (the evacuation) was prepared on a large scale and performed in the year 1942 in the whole of the Reich after jewish emigration was forbidden in the fall of 1941."

O.K. So what else?

"4. Transportierung von Juden aus den Ostprovinzen nach dem russischen Osten:"

"4. Transportation of Jews from the eastern provinces into the Russian East:"

And then Korherr provides some numbers.

Thus, the Korherr report provides solid evidence for the revisionist theory and is in complete disagreement with the exterminationists who believe that all the jews were killed. THIS IS HIS BEST PIECE OF EVIDENCE !!!???? For crying out loud!

It's been quite a while since I first looked into the Korherr report. David's "interpretation" does seem to be a little far fetched to say the least.
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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 days 14 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:26 am)

Hey David old man. Have a cup of whiskey and cheer up.

We know that you are familiar with codoh and probably know all too well that your video is being watched here.

So why don't you just join the crowd and provide some explanations for these strange discrepancies between your talk about the Korherr report and the content of the Korherr report. You don't like to spin words don't you?

So you wanted to have solid evidence for the transit camp theory? We just gave the evidence to you. The Korherr report!
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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby EtienneSC » 3 days 14 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:30 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:Several people were transited through the Reinhard camps.

https://inconvenienthistory.com/12/2/7311

These are mostly people being transited West though, to judge by the destination camps.

Challen makes the following statement:
Furthermore the statistically significant figures of Jews whom the National Socialists evacuated have, in my opinion, been overstated by one million and the figures of Jews who emigrated from Europe have been understated by the same number.
https://codoh.com/library/document/richard-korherr-and-his-reports/en/
He doesn't explain himself in the article, but it would help explain the anomaly. Perhaps there is an explanation in the book?

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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 days 14 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:39 am)

"These are mostly people being transited West though, to judge by the destination camps."

Is that you David? So what? People were transited through the camps. Thus, they were transit camps.

The Korherr report tells you the overall numbers of Jews transited to the east if you want solid documentary evidence. ;-)
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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby PrudentRegret » 3 days 14 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:42 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:If he believes that the "Aktion Reinhard" was a policy of extermination, then Majdanek was part of this extermination policy.


As I have shown elsewhere, Aktion Reinhardt was an economic initiative for the sequestration and utilization of Jewish property. Testimonial evidence, as well as a large body of circumstantial evidence, affirms that this initiative was named after Fritz Reinhardt, who was State Secretary of the Reich Ministry of Finance:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4124

When I started discussing this with Nick Terry and Sergey, they told me there was no testimonial evidence supporting the conclusion that "Aktion Reinhardt" was named after Fritz Reinhardt, but I found substantial testimonial evidence in the IMT WVHA transcripts that directly affirms this conclusion:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=168648#p168648

There was no "Aktion Reinhard", that is a poor attempt by the exterminationists to associate Heydrich with a code-name of an alleged genocide.

In fact AR was an economic initiative named after Fritz Reinhardt like many other initiatives named after Reinhardt: the Reinhardt Programs, the Reinhardt Taxes, the Reinhardt Interest Bonuses, the Reinhardt Fund, etc.

Cole likely does not mention the Höfle Telegram due the inclusion of Majdanek like others have mentioned. As I explained in the linked thread, Auschwitz and Majdanek were important locations for the repository, repair, and sanitation of cloths and other belongings that were sequestered from ghettos, camp inmates, and resettled persons. The inclusion of Majdanek in the Höfle Telegram supports the conclusion that AR was an economic operation for the processing of property and had nothing to do with extermination, as the WVHA witnesses affirm in trial.

Majdanek was key in the operation of Aktion Reinhardt, but it was not an extermination camp. That is significant evidence for the nature of Aktion Reinhardt.

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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Archie » 3 days 13 hours ago (Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:18 pm)

PrudentRegret wrote:
Pia Kahn wrote:If he believes that the "Aktion Reinhard" was a policy of extermination, then Majdanek was part of this extermination policy.


As I have shown elsewhere, Aktion Reinhardt was an economic initiative for the sequestration and utilization of Jewish property. Testimonial evidence, as well as a large body of circumstantial evidence, affirms that this initiative was named after Fritz Reinhardt, who was State Secretary of the Reich Ministry of Finance:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4124

When I started discussing this with Nick Terry and Sergey, they told me there was no testimonial evidence supporting the conclusion that "Aktion Reinhardt" was named after Fritz Reinhardt, but I found substantial testimonial evidence in the IMT WVHA transcripts that directly affirms this conclusion:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=168648#p168648

There was no "Aktion Reinhard", that is a poor attempt by the exterminationists to associate Heydrich with a code-name of an alleged genocide.

In fact AR was an economic initiative named after Fritz Reinhardt like many other initiatives named after Reinhardt: the Reinhardt Programs, the Reinhardt Taxes, the Reinhardt Interest Bonuses, the Reinhardt Fund, etc.

Cole likely does not mention the Höfle Telegram due the inclusion of Majdanek like others have mentioned. As I explained in the linked thread, Auschwitz and Majdanek were important locations for the repository, repair, and sanitation of cloths and other belongings that were sequestered from ghettos, camp inmates, and resettled persons. The inclusion of Majdanek in the Höfle Telegram supports the conclusion that AR was an economic operation for the processing of property and had nothing to do with extermination, as the WVHA witnesses affirm in trial.

Majdanek was key in the operation of Aktion Reinhardt, but it was not an extermination camp. That is significant evidence for the nature of Aktion Reinhardt.


It would be a little unusual to use Heydrich’s first name to refer to the operation. It’s almost always the last name. The Morgenthau Plan, not the “Henry” Plan. The Marshall Plan, not the “George” Plan. The Monroe doctrine, not the “James” Doctrine. And so on.

And that is a good point about Majdanek. That camp is such of problem for them.

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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 3 days 1 hour ago (Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:06 am)

Did you see his latest thing? The video starts out with this punk rock Bow Wow Wow type music as he's reading the Journal of Historical Review! I laughed hard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDgVM2qNmqs

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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby Pia Kahn » 2 days 23 hours ago (Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:39 am)

I posted a simple question below his video. The question was immediately deleted. David fears debate.
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Re: David Cole's Q&A video of July 21, 2020

Postby EtienneSC » 2 days 20 hours ago (Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:33 am)

Pia Kahn wrote:I posted a simple question below his video. The question was immediately deleted. David fears debate.
I suspect he wouldn't be able to have a column, or hobnob with Ann Coulter and whoever if he kept pushing against AR. It happens in professional life that you have to challenge people to get at the truth and historical inquiry is no different. Generally speaking, it might be better if there were more conciliation on our part and recognition of mistreatment of the European Jews. However, the historical evidence remains inadequate and in the absence of proper funding for revisionism that will only change at a snail's pace.

One point Challen makes is that the Korherr report(s) are difficult to interpret. I wonder if German reports on less contentious issues are also so difficult. A report that is to be a basis for decision making needs to be clear and to point to a course of action. I'm also surprised that Himmler would refer to "camouflage purposes" in an official letter.


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