When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

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Merlin300
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When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby Merlin300 » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:04 am)

I remember the discussion which occurred this time of the year on the first grade playground. It was over the existence of Santa Claus.
All of us children had seen the cookies and milk left by the fire place for the wonderful visitor and the carrots for his reindeer.
I personally witnessed that the cookies and milk had been consumed the next morning and the carrots nibbled. I can testify that certain
presents were wrapped and addressed to me from Santa himself and the packages contained items which had been previously requested
in letters sent to the North Pole.

As far as I and all the other children were concerned, there was no doubt about Santa.
There was even a secondary mythology around Santa. Did he really know who was naughty or nice? Did he treat children whose birthdays were on December 25th differently? (there was one such unfortunate in my class)

Therefore, it was a troubling shock on the playground when fellow student Bernie announced, "There is no Santa." He knew from an older brother.
I distinctly remember sweet little Dana Williams getting tears in her eyes.
Definite epistemological concerns roiled the once simple imaginations of my fellow students.

I hereby confess that I maintained my belief in the generous elf for as long as possible.
I recognized that professing a belief in Santa seemed to bring more presents under the Christmas tree. By second grade, my meretricious view was shared by most of my classmates. We played the Santa game for as long as possible.

What and when did you fall from grace? Or do you still believe in Santa Claus?

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby HMSendeavour » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:45 am)

Santa Claus never made sense to me for one reason, besides all the obvious ones.

In all the movies you watch about Santa Claus or Christmas, the dichotomy is usually that the parents don't believe in Santa Claus, or even Christmas itself. Yet somehow, in these universes, Santa is real and giving presents to children while presumably the parents are doing the same thing. How can this happen? You would think that the parents would have to know he exists if there's always random presents they never bought underneath the tree.

I always disliked seeing this in films, and I've never once in my life thus far seen anyone express this same criticism. I'm glad that I can finally express it.

Obviously in real life it's said by your parents that they consult with Santa Claus, if he were real, then there must come a time after you have children that he makes contact with you. If this doesn't happen, then he isn't real. And you're not getting presents your parents didn't know about under the tree are you? So, either they know, meaning you will know too, or they don't know and he isn't real. Which of course he isn't.

I cannot remember when I stopped believing in Santa though, I definitely stopped before the age of 10.

No idea how this relates to the Holocaust, but it needed to be said. :santa_thumb:
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:16 pm)

I never believed in Santa to begin with. My parents didn’t believe in propagating falsehoods like that. Now if they could take it one step further in regard to WWII revisionism...
If your beliefs cannot stand up to your own sincere scrutiny and skeptical evaluation, they are not worth having.

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby HMSendeavour » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:29 pm)

JLAD Prove Me Wrong wrote:I never believed in Santa to begin with. My parents didn’t believe in propagating falsehoods like that.


That's unfortunate. Unlike the mythology surrounding historical events like the Holocaust, and the larger Third Reich narrative, believing in Santa Claus isn't even close to being a pernicious lie.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby Kretschmer » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:48 pm)

In my case, I stopped believing in Santa Claus when I was in the fourth grade, at that time being eleven years old. As one would expect, nearly everyone throughout the first half of elementary school held a deeply devoted belief in his existence, so much so that I had several acquaintances who continued believing in him until the 7th grade.

Though I was perceived by many as a gifted child, I was admittedly quite gullible and would accept my parents' answers to the most obvious of questions that ruled out the existence of Santa or the Easter Bunny. Strangely enough, I found no issue in the existence of Santa as a child, but held a defiant attitude towards religion in general until I gradually moved on to agnosticism, then to Protestantism, then to the Orthodox Church, and finally to Catholicism as I turned further and further away from the wealth of lies espoused by the American status quo in my middling teenage years.

Ultimately though, I think that the use of fairy tales and characters within the popular conceptions of certain Holidays as a tool to argue in favor of revisionism can be perceived by some as an argument made in bad faith, being hardly any different from when Marxists accuse Christians of being believers in Santa and the likes for our beliefs and worldviews.

This is why whenever an anti-revisionist brings up the common "What about the documents / eyewitnesses?", I'll reply that it was also "well-documented" at Nuremberg that 10,000 Jews were annihilated in an atomic bomb test and that dead Jews were made into lampshades, soap, and shrunken heads, even though both accusations are almost universally acknowledged as false, even by Jewish historians themselves.
"In all of mankind's conflicts involving deaths by chemical warfare, pesticides were the ideal weapon of choice" - said no chemist or historian ever. :lol:

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby Merlin300 » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:53 pm)

Kretschmer wrote:
Ultimately though, I think that the use of fairy tales and characters within the popular conceptions of certain Holidays as a tool to argue in favor of revisionism can be perceived by some as an argument made in bad faith, being hardly any different from when Marxists accuse Christians of being believers in Santa and the likes for our beliefs and worldviews.


Hello Kretschmer- I do not mean to insult any religion. I was considering the epistemological events which occur when a belief has to choose between being faith or becoming science.

I think the human brain (once developed) acts the same at 7 years as it does at 50 years.

So it is of interest why most of us believed in Santa at some point.
When did a rational analysis enter our brains?
When did the the scale tip to overt disbelief? Was it a higher authority like an older brother?
Was it a series of anomalies in the story like fitting large bags down a chimney or the facts that deer cannot fly?
Why did some people continue in belief longer than others?

To bring the discussion to Revisionism, I was foolish enough to believe that the drop in the death toll at Majdanek was going to be greeted with universal relief... Relief along the lines of finding out the number of deaths was much lower than first announced.

While believing in a charming generous elf is different from believing in a sick, twisted ugly horror story, the abandonment of believe
is a common thread.

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby Hannover » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:41 pm)

Merlin300 wrote:To bring the discussion to Revisionism, I was foolish enough to believe that the drop in the death toll at Majdanek was going to be greeted with universal relief... Relief along the lines of finding out the number of deaths was much lower than first announced.

That brings us to this:
Why do so many want '6 million Jews & millions of others' to be dead?
Revisionists bring life affirming good news.
Everyone should be elated.
- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby Kretschmer » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:46 pm)

Merlin300 wrote:
Hello Kretschmer- I do not mean to insult any religion. I was considering the epistemological events which occur when a belief has to choose between being faith or becoming science.

I think the human brain (once developed) acts the same at 7 years as it does at 50 years.

So it is of interest why most of us believed in Santa at some point.
When did a rational analysis enter our brains?
When did the the scale tip to overt disbelief? Was it a higher authority like an older brother?
Was it a series of anomalies in the story like fitting large bags down a chimney or the facts that deer cannot fly?
Why did some people continue in belief longer than others?

To bring the discussion to Revisionism, I was foolish enough to believe that the drop in the death toll at Majdanek was going to be greeted with universal relief... Relief along the lines of finding out the number of deaths was much lower than first announced.

While believing in a charming generous elf is different from believing in a sick, twisted ugly horror story, the abandonment of believe
is a common thread.

No worries, I did not interpret any of your statements as insulting to religion in the slightest. My point was simply directed at those who argue out of bad faith when confronting those not already informed through the revisionist position on the Holocaust, and admittedly, my wording made it sound like my statement had been in direct opposition to your post.

You raise very good points, and though not directly tied to the orthodox narrative, helping us understand the slow process of rationalization, whether in the mind of a child or an adult, is valuable to what we aim to achieve.
"In all of mankind's conflicts involving deaths by chemical warfare, pesticides were the ideal weapon of choice" - said no chemist or historian ever. :lol:

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby david2923 » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:32 pm)

The day before christmas I found Walki Talkies in the car outside and they showed up under the tree next morning
Water came down instead of the gas :drunken:

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby Merlin300 » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:06 am)


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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:58 am)

I don't remember, but I think when my best friend and I somehow found out together that there was no Santa Claus at 5-6 years old, I vaguely remember it being a source of humor rather than disappointment. Humorous that we were now 'in the know.'

And then by 7 (second grade, USA) everybody knew and what was cool is we all didn't tell the littler kids. I remember there was a casual conversation with the teacher that somebody's sister who was five was spilling the beans to everyone, and the older brother was going to tell her to stop telling the other kids.

Relating to the holocaust myth, at various points when I first became a holocaust denier, I had an elation of humor also. What a whopper I had believed, and how on face value I now saw it as ridiculous.

Looking back at your old self when you believed something that you now know isn't true: it can hit you as funny.

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby Hektor » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:52 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:I don't remember, but I think when my best friend and I somehow found out together that there was no Santa Claus at 5-6 years old, I vaguely remember it being a source of humor rather than disappointment. Humorous that we were now 'in the know.'
.....

I recall it that my parents never made a big fuss about a mythical christmas father bringing the presents under the tree. So I didn't really believe it right from the beginning. The presents were just hidden in another room. On the other hand, I don't think it's that wrong to first tell the kids a story where the presents did come from and let them discover that it is a myth, despite the prove being under the tree. Lesson: You can't believe everything people tell you, even your own parents extrapolating to people in authority.

Concerning the Holocaust Myth I first believed it, since there were those films from the Concentration Camps and it clearly showed a lot of dead people. This was the first official introduction to the subject, although their floated some info on this already. Bear in mind this was before the internet age. Getting literature was a rather labour-some process. Although we had more literature in the house than the average, although my parents had little academic education themselves (albeit my father had a lot of professional training, was hence used to work with information and texts). I even recall we had rare antiquarian books. Don't know what first made me doubt the narrative. I just found the obsession of some circles with the subject rather dubious. Also the whole approach to make people believe it. Wasn't their a thorough investigation? Why were Communist atrocities and the ones against Germans ignored. Of the older books had mentioned them, but it was never a big issue in the media and didn't disseminate to schools. Although I remember an older conservative teacher that didn't share the main-stream views, but took another stance on NS and related issues. One must bear in mind that while South Africa participated in WW2 on the Allied side right from the first week, this wasn't a popular move on behalf of a government that had undergone a recent change to Jan Smuts as a leader in a rather dubious way. The Smuts-regime imprisoned people that were considered opponents to the war effort. Since Germany was the opponent of Britain it had some strong sympathies going back to the 4 or more decades before WW2. But since South Africa was still suffering from the depression it was quite easy for Smuts to recruit soldiers for several divisions on the British side. Smuts opponents, the National Party, did however win the elections after the war. Why exactly is another matter. Funny enough Smuts took about the same stance on race-policy then the NP did, despite the noise some of his louder followers were making, some of them being Cape Liberals, but I'd guess they weren't that much enthusiastic about alternatives neither. Interestingly of the first banning of revisionist books was done in South Africa on behest of the strong Jewish organisations here.
This didn't last though. And those interested still were having access to that kind of literature, just not the hard details that were discovered only at a later stage anyway. The issue would break down to those promoting the Holocaust having clearly another agenda than they were telling people, that it stemmed from a side with ulterior motive of framing their enemies, that evidence given is rather insufficient. And last but not least that it didn't fit the image of Germans present in SA/SWA who were reserved, but rather kind, peaceful people that didn't show much aggression against other groups including Jews at all. They just didn't mingle with them. People in SA have experience with Jews as well, but they had a rather bad reputation for their business practices and partially allegiance to Communism. The Communist Party in South Africa was a Jewish enterprise with some side-kicks from other ethnicities of which Nelson Mandela was the best known. He didn't disclose this though, although there was evidence in his own handwriting in court for this. Fallacious Ad Nazium arguments were used in agitation against policies here as well. After all, Blacks could not permanently live in White areas and were given separate amenities by law. The Nuremberg Law thing, yeah know. Of which Julius Streicher claimed Jewish practices and biblical rules were used as example for.

DR. MARX: Yes. The so-called "Racial Law" was promulgated at the Reich Party Day in Nuremberg in 1935. Were you consulted about the planning and preparation of the draft of that law; and did you have any part in it, especially in its preparation?

STREICHER: Yes, I believe I had a part in it insofar as for years I have written that any further mixture of German blood with Jewish blood must be avoided. I have written such articles again and again; and in my articles I have repeatedly emphasized the fact that the Jews should serve as an example to every race, for they created a racial law for themselves-the law of Moses, which says, "If you come into a foreign land you shall not take unto yourself foreign women." And that, Gentlemen, is of tremendous importance in judging the Nuremberg Laws. These laws of the Jews were taken as a model for these laws. When, after centuries, the Jewish lawgiver Ezra discovered that notwithstanding many Jews had married non-Jewish women, these marriages were dissolved. That was the beginning of Jewry which, because it introduced these racial laws, has survived throughout the centuries, while all other races and civilizations have perished.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/04-26-46.asp

It should be noted that a lot of policy influencers in South Africa had some education in theology and knew the bible including the old testament pretty well.

But I digress. One needs to understand tradition and institutions by there (real) history. The SANTA thing may have more lessons in it, than one thinks. And of course it comes a longer way than most people even imagine.

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby borjastick » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:37 am)

What. Santa Claus isn't real??????????????
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby PrudentRegret » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:41 pm)

My older sister actually believed she caught a glimpse of Santa and could smell the tobacco from his pipe one Christmas night (true story). Her witness account was compelling to me at the tender age of 5. There's a lesson there.

Now Santa is dead to me, and I hate everyone

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Re: When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Postby Archie » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:37 pm)

I believed until I saw the Allied air photos of my roof from December 24th. There were sleigh tracks and reindeer hoofprints, but the shadows were all wrong so it was obvious these had been crudely drawn in by the CIA. At that point, it was all over for me.

Actually I don’t have any memory of believing in it literally. According to my mother I always took it as make believe even from the beginning. Just a fun story. Perhaps I’m naturally cynical or maybe mom didn’t tell the story very convincingly, lol. I wasn’t really a Santa denier though in that I thought it was a fine story and didn’t mind pretending. Nor did I ever have any desire to redpill other kids about it.


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