Spontaneous Human Combustion

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Sailor
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Spontaneous Human Combustion

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:49 pm)

Mr. McCarthy of the THHP group made this comment about the cremation of the human body:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/pamphl ... hlet.shtml

Just as meat burns on a barbeque when the fire gets hot enough, the fuel for cremating a corpse can be the corpse itself. Burning a pound of flesh gives off 1,000 BTU of heat. Once the oven is heated enough with coke, it stays hot, and many corpses can be burned in a row.


Mr. McCarthy implies that once the cremation oven is heated up, that it requires no or only little fuel to continue with the cremation of further bodies. That all or most of the heat which is required for the cremation is furnished by the body itself.

Does this sound about right?
:idea:

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:11 pm)

That is so absurd as to be hardly worthy of response. But, this is the so called 'holocau$t' and absurdities are the rule rather than the exception.

Cremation requires fuel to keep the temperatures up and the process completed in a reasonable timespan, adding another body without this fuel would keep the process going for hours & hours and would eventually simply stop burning with incomplete cremation....such a mess.

Go ahead try it on your BBQ; sure meat will burn, but flop a raw steak on a burning steak without the hot charcoal and see what happens.

And ofcourse the muffles themselves could not physically accomodate two corpses without damaging the oven, per statement by oven builder himself, Kurt Prufer. The size of the muffle opening (70 x 70 cm) adds to the complications. Forget about it.

The process that nutbar 'McCarthy' claims is pure desperation. Nothing quite like 'holocau$t' science.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:24 am)

Well ...

Mr. McCarthy gives a link to the operational instructions for the Topf two-muffle oven. Which I translated into English. Here it is:

Operational Manual of the Coke Heated Topf Two-Muffle Cremation Oven

Before loading the two coke-generators with coke, the two smoke flue dampers at the oven have to be opened, the same also for the main smoke channel damper and respectively the rotating clap at the chimney.

Now the fire can be started and maintained in both generators.

Pay attention, that the seconday shutters right and left of the ash dispenser doors (coke generator) are opened.

After the cremation chamber has reached the red hot stage (about 800°C), the two corpses can be introduced into both chambers, one after the other.

Now the two compressed air blowers which are located on the side of the oven have to be started and have to run for about 20 minutes. It is necessary to watch the fresh air entering into both the chambers and to ensure that it is not too much or too little.

The regulation of the fresh air is done with the rotating shutter which is located in the air conduit. Additionally the air entrances, which are located right and left of the muffle, have to be half opened.

As soon as the parts of the corpse have fallen from the “Schamotte” (fire resistant brick) grating into the ash-slope below they have be pulled towards the front with a scraper for their removal. These pieces have to be left here for 20 minutes for the afterburning. Then the ashes can be pulled into the ash-container and be put aside in order to cool off.

In the meantime new corpses are being introduced into the chambers one after the other.

Both coke generators have to be loaded with fuel continuously.

Every evening the generator grating has to be cleaned off the coke slag and the ashes have to be removed.

It is further important, that after completion of the operation, as soon as the generator is burnt down and there are nor further glowing parts, all air shutters and doors, also the smoke flue dampers at the oven have to be closed, in order not to cool down the oven.

After each cremation process the temperature in the oven rises. Therefore please pay attention, that the internal temperature does not exceed 1100°C (white heat).

This temperature increase can be prevented by forced air blowing.


So the instructions indicate to supply the generators with fuel continuously, and they also indicate, that the oven gets very hot after each cremation process and to reduce the temperature (in order to avoid damage). This on the surface seems to be a contradiction, and maybe it was misunderstood and caused Mr. McCarthy to stumble. If I start with the forced air blower, the temperature will go down for that particular oven design, but not the coke consumption! It will go up and the energy will go right through the chimney!
:D

fge

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:04 am)

Every evening the generator grating has to be cleaned off the coke slag and the ashes have to be removed.

This certainly shoots down the lie about 'continuous, 24 hr. operation'.

And nothing there like:
'Hey guys, save fuel by using one corpse to cremate another'.

BUT quite the opposite, we do see:
"Both coke generators have to be loaded with fuel continuously".

The liars at the so called 'Holocaust History Project' have no shame.

Nice post, Sailor.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby dalegribble » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:01 am)

Go ahead try it on your BBQ; sure meat will burn, but flop a raw steak on a burning steak without the hot charcoal and see what happens.


you can easily burn a couple of corpses on the heat from the fat of the first so the above statement isn't in the slightest bit accurate.although i'll agree that they couldn't keep up this process 24/7
'my source - nearly 30 years in the cremation buisness'
Last edited by dalegribble on Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spontaneous Human Combustion

Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:09 am)

Sailor wrote:Mr. McCarthy of the THHP group made this comment about the cremation of the human body:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/pamphl ... hlet.shtml

Just as meat burns on a barbeque when the fire gets hot enough, the fuel for cremating a corpse can be the corpse itself. Burning a pound of flesh gives off 1,000 BTU of heat. Once the oven is heated enough with coke, it stays hot, and many corpses can be burned in a row.


Mr. McCarthy implies that once the cremation oven is heated up, that it requires no or only little fuel to continue with the cremation of further bodies. That all or most of the heat which is required for the cremation is furnished by the body itself.

Does this sound about right?


The cremation oven builder Topf & Söhne received a patent in the early 50s on a cremation oven that incinerates without need for additional heat after a while. Guess where they got the expertise for this patent? I've no idea, but here is a hint: The crematoria of Auschwitz were designed by Kurt Prüfer, a former Topf & Söhne employee.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:26 am)

Which were incapable of cremating the numbers alleged, in the times alleged, with the amount of fuel alleged. There are threads here which shoot down that dumb THHP nonsense.

Please show us this "patent" Max. I'll wait.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:08 pm)

dalegribble wrote:
Go ahead try it on your BBQ; sure meat will burn, but flop a raw steak on a burning steak without the hot charcoal and see what happens.


you can easily burn a couple of corpses on the heat from the fat of the first so the above statement isn't in the slightest bit accurate.although i'll agree that they couldn't keep up this process 24/7
'my source - nearly 30 years in the cremation buisness'


Could you expand upon this?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:32 am)

Max said:
The cremation oven builder Topf & Söhne received a patent in the early 50s on a cremation oven that incinerates without need for additional heat after a while.

Ofcourse, the 50's is not the 40s, but no matter.
The proposed Topf patent is NOT for a cremation oven, but rather for an incinerator. That is, you build a fire, let it develop over a period of time (in this case, two days), and then start throwing material in it -- that is, right on the fire -- to burn.
AND, no working example has ever been shown to have been built.

Either way you cut it the cremation rates, times, and alleged amount of fuel used (3.5 kg of coke) were/are technically impossible.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu May 01, 2003 10:09 pm)

Hannover wrote: Either way you cut it the cremation rates, times, and alleged amount of fuel used (3.5 kg of coke) were/are technically impossible.


About the coke consumption during the cremation process:

Holocaust defenders may overlook the fact that the temperature in coke-fired ovens during a cremation process cannot easily be regulated, as compared to gas, oil or electrically heated cremation ovens.

The method of indirect cremation is closely tied to a very narrow temperature band, below the minimum level the bones will not cremate but will be charred, above the maximum level the bones and proteins will bond with the “Schamotte” (fire resistant cladding) of the oven, causing a big mess and damages and everything has to be replaced. To keep the temperature within these limits is easy with a gas-fired oven. Just open/close the gas valve. But difficult to do with coke.

When the fat of the body during the cremation starts burning the temperature inside the muffle will certainly go up. In case of a coke fired oven all the cremation assistant can do now is to throttle the air intake to the coke-gas generator and bypass part of the hot coke gases into the chimney. As soon as the fat is burnt off the coke gas temperature has to be up again in order to continue with the cremation.
Or with other words: The fat of the body does not save that much coke during the process.

It is also important to know that the coke requirements for the cremation as listed by Mattogno are theoretical values. There are oven efficiencies involved, and these are quite low for coke-fired ovens. probably around 50%.

This of course could be completely different in the case of incineration, which can be done at a much higher temperature and may not require temperature control.

:D


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