criticisms I have of Leuchter

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criticisms I have of Leuchter

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:54 am)

Fred Leuchter's degree is in History.

He did some graduate work in astronomy-type stuff but didn't get an advanced degree in it. When you're reading the Leuchter report or watching the movie "Mr. Death" and you hear him say "in my best engineering opinion" it sort of loses it's force when you know he doesn't have a degree in engineering.

His academic credentials were difficult to find. When I read the report, (or a short version of it) at ihr.org, I was looking for what credentials he had. They were never listed. I kept asking myself "where did he study engineering?" This is not to say that that being self-taught or "on the job training" is not valid. He apparently has some patents. He did design a gas chamber etc. My criticism is that certain revisionists were not forthcoming with the info that he has a History degree and was a self-taught engineer. And, well, I'll have to say that it's a little sketchy to call yourself an engineer when you don't have a BS in Engineering. I'm currently reading the Rudolf report, and I'm not sure if Rudolf was aware that Leuchter didn't have an engineering degree. And therein lies the problem: hiding the truth explodes into bigger problems as any revisionist knows. Rudolf might not have known since since the fact is a little hidden. I finally found Leuchters credentials via online search. I had to find it out from Deborah Lipstadt, and then saw that it was at ihr.org, but buried.

And Mr. Death completely botched that fact. It's not the first time I've seen an "indie" documentary do that. In the movie you're enraged that they're trying to strip him from calling himself an engineer, and maybe rightly enraged, but the movie could have mentioned that he didn't have an engineering degree and albeit political, that might have had something to do with it.

Certainly it doesn't make the Leuchter reports, or concepts shown in Mr. Death invalid. Other reports since have confirmed Leuchter's results and his "best engineering opinions." It's not as bad as the concept of a self-taught medical doctor, but it's a little sketchy. At the same time, being self-taught was more accepted in his generation. And he has plenty of products and commissions to show his abilities. None of this takes away from his courageousness and bravery.

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:44 am)

CCS:

I have editied from your post a section which is simply gossip. We will not allow this Forum to 'go there'. Let's stick to the specifics of our stated subject matter.

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Postby The_Skunk » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:11 am)

Moderator wrote:CCS:

Let's stick to the specifics of our stated subject matter.

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I really doubt there is a school that offers " Gas chamber and execution design ". My understanding is Leuchter was hired by three or four states to design execution systems.

When it comes to certifying a gas chamber I got to think the warden ( stands outside during execution ) - will make sure the inspector is competant

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:56 pm)

There are others who certainly work with and design execution equipment a la Leuchter. Do they all have engineering degrees? Are engineering degrees required? Nope.

And weren't Leuchter's conclusions confirmed by those with techical degrees ... Luftl, Rudolf? Yep.

Plus:
Thoroughly debunked Raoul Hilberg, as just one example, is considered a "holocaust historian". Does he have a degree in history? Nope.

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Postby Temporary on hold » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:15 pm)

The last I heard of Leuchter was that he was in the process of receiving an engineering title in Massachusetts. He was fined for not having one after the industry went after him as they do anyone who exposes holocaust lies.

It's a mistake to spend too much time attacking Leuchter when his evidence is what needs to be discussed...

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:18 pm)

Actually the editing of my post and the editing of the title of the post by the moderator inadvertently changed some of the meaning. I wasn't criticizing Leuchter. He's a hero. I was criticizing those who I think weren't completely open about his credentials. But I'll respect what the moderator said and drop it.

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:37 pm)

Sorry, will you please post any text you think enhances the Leuchter information.
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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:35 am)

Carto wrote:He did some graduate work in astronomy-type stuff but didn't get an advanced degree in it. When you're reading the Leuchter report or watching the movie "Mr. Death" and you hear him say "in my best engineering opinion" it sort of loses it's force when you know he doesn't have a degree in engineering.


I think that Leuchter was taken out because of not being registered as an engineer in Massachusets (and questioning the non-questionable).

And I think that there is a certain misconception about the word "engineer". There are only very few registered engineeers in manufacturing, engineers who design automobiles, computers or television sets are for the most part not registered engineers.

The engineering registration is usually required for architect/engineers, structural and civil engineers, who design bridges or high rise buildings and have to be registered in the state where they do their work. At least those engineers who are in leading positions.

But don't believe for a minute that the TV set in your living room which is probably imported from China was designed by a registered engineer.

Leuchter was a technician who learned his trade on the job. He functioned as a consultant between the owner, which could have been in this case a state penitentiary, and the manufacturer of the execution gas chamber, who designed and built it.

I worked with and even hired in my time many consulting engineers. Not one of them was a registered engineer.

But Leuchter made the mistake to question the unquestionable: The Jewish homicidal gas chambers.

My criticism is that certain revisionists were not forthcoming with the info that he has a History degree and was a self-taught engineer. And, well, I'll have to say that it's a little sketchy to call yourself an engineer when you don't have a BS in Engineering.
Van Pelt apparently learned from this: He made quite clear that he did not have a degree in architecture.

2.2. Damage Control
Alarmed by this development, the 'Never Forgive, Never Forget' brigade wasted no time in taking counter-measures. Self-styled 'Nazi hunter' Beate Klarsfeld announced that Fred Leuchter "has to understand that in denying the Holocaust, he cannot remain unpunished."[28]
Jewish organizations launched a vicious smear campaign to destroy not only his reputation, but his ability to make a living. Leading the charge was Shelly Shapiro and her group, "Holocaust Survivors and Friends in Pursuit of Justice". Calling Leuchter a fraud and impostor, this group claimed, despite better knowledge, that he lacked qualifications as an execution equipment specialist and had asserted the possession of professional qualifications which he had never earned.[29]
Although these accusations were entirely unfounded and failed to survive any legal verification, the 'get Leuchter' campaign, with the co-operation of mainstream journalists and editors, was successful. Leuchter's contracts with state authorities for the manufacture, installation, and servicing of execution hardware were cancelled. He was financially forced out of his home in Massachusetts and had to find private work elsewhere. No American has suffered more for his defiance of the Holocaust lobby.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html#toc


fge

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:28 am)

Leuchter is a major hero. He might have been completely open about his academic background, but others maybe weren't. I.e. Errol Morris might have had him on tape saying this, but it didn't make the final cut.

How amazing that in almost any video store, you can rent a movie that has interviews with Zundel, Irving, and a cameo of Mark Weber!

Just rent the movie, fastforward the first 2 minutes with the loud music, and tell yourself you're watching a movie not called "Mr. Death" but a movie called "An Unlikely Hero."

And almost as great as watching that movie, was reading an article written by Ernst Zundel himself who attended the premiere at the Toronto Film Festival. As he was watching it, he remembered getting beaten up just a block or so away 10 years earlier. He wrote:
"Then followed video footage of newscasts of my 1988 trial, good excerpts of my statements to the press - one better than the next! - and all that on the huge silver screen in a spectacular theater in downtown Toronto, where a decade ago I had been beaten and spat at by hissing, howling Jewish Defense League thugs!"

http://www.revisionists.com/leuchter/mr ... del_r.html

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Postby panzer-dragoon » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:12 pm)

Hi,
To best find out all about Fred Leuchter, have a listen to him on this very informative interview, straight from the horse's mouth (Windows Media Audio):

http://liberalwatch.org.hosting.domaind ... erview.wma

Next to the David Cole video, this is the best media file I've ever listened to on revisionism. By the way, a better quality version of the David Cole video can be found here:

http://www.solargeneral.com/av/DavidColeatAuschwitz.wmv
Last edited by panzer-dragoon on Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Scott » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:25 am)

I have a degree in History and I was once employed as a broadcasting engineer, but in reality, as Sailor said, I was a technician. I was at least certified in that but I do not have a contractor's license. So if I designed an outhouse or a gaschamber or a TV station somebody else would have to certify the structures to conform to code.

For Leuchter to call himself an engineer with no undergraduate degree in engineering is extremely misleading. He should have had some real engineers review his report and make suggestions and corrections. That is a peer-review process. Surely there were plenty of retired engineers with nothing professional to lose who could have done this.

As it is the Leuchter Report contains numberous technical problems and essentially argues beyond the evidence. That is not the proper scientific method.

Of course, the report was done in haste for the second Zündel trial and what they wanted was a slam-dunk. That is good propaganda but not good science. And not being quite honest about his credentials was just a credibility disaster waiting to happen, which Revisionists should have anticipated.

Revisionists have to get the science right or else they should be bitterly excoriated. That is why I am so skeptical of the supposed Krege ground-penetrating radar study, which unlike the LR has been years in the waiting. I'm not holding my breath. With or without the absurd diesel gaschambers, Krege's inability to find a massgrave of some kind does not inspire confidence in his methods. And if that there is no substance the bubble will burst and the public will remember cries of fraud when they have forgotten everything else. Revisionists frankly don't need costly mistakes of their own making and do not have the luxury of billion dollar propaganda mills to spread their views as the Hoaxsters do.

:D
Last edited by Scott on Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:36 am)

Sorry Scott, but no cigar.

Leuchter's conclusions have been confirmed by highly qualified techical science folks like Rudolf, Mattogno, and Lueftl. Can you refute them?

And The Believers have not/cannot show us the alleged and laughable 'mass grave' at Treblinka ... can you?

Revisionists have the science right indeed. It's those who support the 'holocau$t' Industry shell game that avoid science like the plague, their mythology doesn't hold up.

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Last edited by Hannover on Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Scott » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:48 am)

Yes, Rudolf and others have corrected much and filled in many unsupported arguments made boldly by Leuchter who called himself an engineer.

But Krege couldn't even find the camp garbage pile. One would think there was no camp there at all. Of course, until he publishes his report there can't be anything to judge scientifically. So Revisionists shouldn't be trying to "sell" it in my opinion.

:D
Last edited by Scott on Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:54 am)

I see Scott is avoiding the conclusion of Leuchter's analysis .... no homicidal gas chambers, as completely supported by Rudolf, Lueftl, Mattogno. Can Scott show us a different conclusion that is supported by the so mention scientists? Does Scott have a different conclusion period that he cares to debate here?

Leuchter got the ball rolling, the others finished the demolition of the gas chambers stories.

Can you, Scott, show us the alleged mass grave? Nope. Can anyone? Nope.
Krege's conclusions stands unrefuted, Treblinka is just one of many frauds in the impossible, hollow story. We're off topic with Krege, BTW.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:03 am)

Maybe what Scott is saying is that it's important that the revisionist movement be super, super honest, and super, super open.

And maybe he's hoping that Kresge uses sound methodology.

As far as the idea that Leuchter could have found other engineers, I'm not sure if he could have got anyone to step forward. Even the chemist Roth, at Alpha Analytical Labs got such pressure that he backtracked on what he'd originally said in the trial. Zundel mentioned that when he wrote about attending the Mr. Death premiere, and saw Roth on the screen.

That movie should have mentioned Leuchter's History Degree, but there's a point where the German historian says Leuchter's only experience is designing an electric chair in Missouri, when in fact Leuchter had designed and implemented a gas chamber.


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