No Massgraves

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No Massgraves

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:23 am)

Max wrote: Once again, the Riga mass shooting on November 30, 1941 is documented in the Einsatzgruppen report Nr. 151 and Sailor has not posted anything were the B"complete unreliability" of the reports is shown.


I did not say "complete unreliability", but rather:
“serious questions raised about the accuracy of these Reports”

I was referring to an article:

Partisan War and Reprisal Killings by Rudolf/Schröder http://vho.org/VffG/1999/2/RudolfSchroeder145-153.html

[…]The first and most thorough study on this is by H. Krausnick, H.-H. Wilhelm:
Die Truppe des Weltanschauungskrieges. Die Einsatzgruppen der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD 1938-1942 (ESSD), Deutsche Verlags-Anstalt, Stuttgart 1981.

Doubts about the Einsatztruppen Reports

One of the well known experts about Einsatzgruppen, Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm already found in 1988 that he is not sure whether the action reports, allegedly prepared by the Einsatzgruppen and sent to Berlin, and which are over and over again listed as proof for the number of murdered Jews, are correct:
“If the non-statistical area the reliability (of these reports) is not larger, which can only be backed-up through a comparison with other sources from the same region, the historical research would be well advised, to be more distrustful towards all SS-sources”

This comment came after he expressed in his first book (ESSD) some doubts about the reliability of these documents and their possible manipulations:
“Because also here several thousands of liquidated Jews were added to make the report look better, otherwise the report can hardly be justified because of the low number of partisans killed.”

At another place he notes that one of the reports was evidently manipulated by adding a zero in order to make out of a 1,134 a 11,034. Obviously the forger were interested to state a large number of victims. If the forgers were the Einsatzgruppen then it has to be assumed that Berlin wanted to see as many as possile Jews murdered. But what if someone else was the forger?



Whether Einsatzgruppen Report USSR No. 151 has be tampered with or not, I cannot say.

My point on this matter is the missing hard evidence: Where are the mass graves?

In 1996 the City of Marijampol of Lithuania decided to erect a monument in memory for the tens of thousands of Jews allegedly killed there by the Einsatzgruppen. In order to place the monument at the correct location they tried to find the exact location of the massgraves. Excavations were done at the locations as indicated by eye witnesses: Not a trace of massgraves! Further excavations in the surrounding areas discovered only untouched earth.


:D

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Re: No Massgraves

Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:14 am)

Sailor wrote:
My point on this matter is the missing hard evidence: Where are the mass graves?


Ever heard of the task of Sonderkommando 1005? Investigated for instance by the court Heilbronn, see http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/files/brd551.htm

For this operation special SS commandos were testing open air cremation ovens in Chelmno, please see the following SS document posted on Irving's website:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/images/Auschw150942.gif

transcript:

Code: Select all

                                       A b s c h r i f t
                                -----------------------------
Funk-Spruch Nr. 52
                                         Angekommen: 15.9.42   1744
Absendende Stelle:
                            An:
W.V.H.A.                      K.L. Au.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
               Betr.: Fahrgenehmigung
               Bezug: Dort. Antrag v. 14.9.42
                      Fahrgen. für einen PKW. von Au. nach Litzmannstadt
               und zurück zwecks Besichtigung der Versuchstation für Feld-
               öfen Aktion Reinhard wird hiermit für den 16.9.42 erteilt.
                     Die Fahrgen. ist dem Kraftfahrer mitzugeben.
                                   Der Chef der Amtsgr. D
                                   gez. Glücks
                                   SS-Brigadef. u. Generalmajor
F.d.R.                             der Waffen-SS, Leiter der
gez. Belle                         Dienstst. im Range eines General-
Funkstellenleiter                   leutnants der Waffen-SS
F.d.R.d.A.:
[Unterschrift]
SS-Hauptsturmführer und Adjudant
[Stempel]


They also used bone-crushers to dispose the bones, please see Carlo Mattogno, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz-Birkenau, footnote 174.

And then of course, the Einsatzgruppen massacres were spread over whole Eastern Europe. A very large area, AFAIK. And the Einsatzgruppen reports usually to do not mention where where massacre were carried out, so it is very difficult, if not impossible, anyway to locate the mass graves sites. And further, isn't there the danger to confuse mass graves of Stalin's butchers with those of Hitler, and vice versa. Who knows exactly if the bones belong to Jews shot by the Nazis or Russians, Poles, etc. shot by the Soviets.

So what's the point anyway? The fact is that there were Einsatzgruppen, right? Fact is they murdered people, right? Partisans, commissars, Jews. Where are the graves of those? If we know no graves, is the conclusion maybe that the Einsatzgruppen never existed at all?! Utterly absurd. So the conclusion should be that the graves were not found yet and/or were succesfully eliminated by German special forces and/or the mass graves were emptied by the Civilian population after the war, looking for valuables in those graves, etc.

PS: More than 100.000 corpses of German soldiers who died in Stalingrad have not been found yet.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:50 am)

Bone crushers? Surely lad, you're joking! Show us one, or perhaps they got stashed away with the human soap and shrunken heads. Laughable to say the least.

Your 1st link is lacking the mass grave, the subject of this thread. It's merely an alleged finding of a court where there was no mass grave ever found. Where IS this mass grave? It would appear we have more assertions but no evidence. Where is the mass grave that this man was supposedly convicted for?

Portable cremations, well so what? No mass grave there, typhus was rampant on the eastern front and cremations were the best solution for the diseased corpse. So what? No mass graves here. Where are the mass graves?

You yourself posted text that alleges "eyewitnesses", which means the alleged mass grave sites should be easy to find. The numbers alleged of the Einsatzgruppen are huge and were supposedly done in centralized sites, not random killings; but allegdly "witnessed" centralized sites..easy to find. Where are the sites?

Your canard about Stalingrad is futile. There is no reason to doubt the battle at Stalingrad. Do you doubt it?
On the other hand, allegations such as 900,000 Jews killed at Treblinka then dumped in what would be an absolutely enormous pit are easily shot down....there is no indication of such a pit, period.

Huge mass grave sites do not just go away, they are traceable even though they were allegdly filled in. Where are they?

Where is the excavation of the alleged mass burning pits at Auschwitz?
Where is the mass grave at Babi Yar?...on & on. There would most certainly be indications of such sites....if true ofcourse.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:56 am)

Hannover wrote:Bone crushers? Surely lad, you're joking!

No, I've cited Revisionist literature!

"They also used bone-crushers to dispose the bones, please see Carlo Mattogno, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz-Birkenau, footnote 174."

Do you think that Mattogno is wrong. If so, I challenge you to show it!


Show us one

I don't have a bone crusher at home, sorry.

Portable cremations, well so what?


Yes, so there was a special commando disposing the corpses in the camps and caused by Einsatzgruppen massacres. So what? That's exactly the point!

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:21 am)

Where's the mass graves Max?

Where's the exacvations at the camps?

You allege "bone crushers" were used, so, where's the crushed bone?

What does Mattogno supposedly say?

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Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:40 am)

Hannover wrote:Where's the mass graves Max?


If you open a mass grave take out the corpses, burn them and crush their bones, if you fill the empty grave with earth, sand, possible also mixed with the bone meal, close it and if you wait 50 years, then what has happened? The mass grave is eliminated.

Where's the exacvations at the camps?


33 large mass graves were found in Belzec. See Kola, Belzec. The Nazi death camp for Jews in the light of archeological sources.

A chemical mining enterprise bored about 300 holes in Auschwitz and found traces of body disposal in 42 sites.

You allege "bone crushers" were used, so, where's the crushed bone?


The bone meal was sometimes mixed with a much larger amount of earth and sand and buried, or alternatively it was deposited in rivers.

What does Mattogno supposedly say?


Mattogno wrote:Little is known about the opening of mass graves and incineration of bodies contained therein. On September 17, 1942, SS-Untersturmführer Walter Dejaco, who together with his colleague Hössler had accompanied Camp Commandant Rudolf Höß to Litzmannstadt (Lodz), drew up a "travel report" in which he mentioned that the purpose of the trip had been the "visual inspection of the special facility, and discussions with SS-Standartenführer Blobel about the implementation of such a facility." This special facility was almost certainly a means for incinerating bodies in the open air. Dejaco also reported that the construction materials ordered from the Ostdeutsche Baustoffwerke in Posen via "special order by Staf. Blobel" had to be delivered to Auschwitz immediately; and that the firm of Schriever & Co. in Hannover had to supply a "ball grinder for substances".[181] This was most likely a device for grinding up the residue left after incineration.


Source: Mattogno, The Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:10 pm)

I am late with my input. Max banned again?

Here is my stuff:
The question about mass graves arose because of the thread on Riga. So the Einsatzgruppen Report USSR No. 151. It is not quite clear: It says, and I quote from the book The Einsatzgruppen Reports by Yitzhak Arad etal:

[…]Obergruppenführer Jeckeln, started a [mass] shooting action on Sunday, November 30, 1941. He removed about 4,000 Jews from the Riga ghetto and from an evacuation transport of Jews fro Germany.[…]
Footnote by Arad: […]Of the approximately 10,600 victims, 1000 were from a transport of deportees from Berlin[…]


How many were killed now by Jeckeln, 4000 or 10,600 or 1000? And how does Arad know that 1000 were taken off the Berlin train? But whatever, if these people were killed by Jeckeln on the same day it stands to reason that this happened at the same place and that there should be mass graves.

Max wrote: Ever heard of the task of Sonderkommando 1005? Investigated for instance by the court Heilbronn, see http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/files/brd551.htm


Actually I did not hear this before. It is in German. Here is roughly what it says:
It is a court judgment against a Rudolf Theimer, who was sentenced by the court of Heilbronn in Germany to 4 years in prison. He was accused of leveling the mass graves of at least 45 + 10 Jewish inmates who were shot in the camp Borek, Poland.

What Max implies is (I think), that there were SS commandos involved with the ‘Beseitigen’ (leveling) of mass graves.

Well, we know this. But man cannot make these graves disappear into nothing. He maybe able to cover them, camouflage or hide them. Something can be found, probably even today.

For this operation special SS commandos were testing open air cremation ovens in Chelmno, please see the following SS document posted on Irving's website:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/images/Auschw150942.gif


This is also in German and it says that Glücks gave permission to someone (no name) to drive in an automobile from Auschwitz to Litzmannstadt and back in order to inspect field ovens Action Reinhard.

Quite frankly I don’t know what a field oven is. The soldiers called the portable oven for cooking a “Gulasch Kanone” (goulash gun), it had the stove pipe sticking up like a gun.

They also used bone-crushers to dispose the bones, please see Carlo Mattogno, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz-Birkenau, footnote 174.


I did not find this reference. But bone grinding machines are well known. Some Australian crematoriums are still using these instead of an afterburner.
These machines are not very fast, it takes about half an hour to grind the bones of one human body to granules.
If Jeckeln really killed 10,000 people on one day in one place, it would take about two years in order to grind their bones with one such machine in order to remove the traces.

And then of course, the Einsatzgruppen massacres were spread over whole Eastern Europe. A very large area, AFAIK. And the Einsatzgruppen reports usually to do not mention where massacre were carried out, so it is very difficult, if not impossible, anyway to locate the mass graves sites. And further, isn't there the danger to confuse mass graves of Stalin's butchers with those of Hitler, and vice versa. Who knows exactly if the bones belong to Jews shot by the Nazis or Russians, Poles, etc. shot by the Soviets.


If only a few people are shot, here and there, no graves will ever be found, of course not.
These are the main places where the Einsatzgruppen allegedly killed large numbers:

Baranovichi, Berdichev, Berezhany, Bialystok, Brest-Litovsk, Brody, Chernovtsy, Derechin, Diatlovo, Dnepropetrovsk, Dvinsk, Gomel, Gorodenka, Grodno, Kedainiai, Kemenets-Podolski, Kharkov, Kherson , Kiev (Babi Yar), Kishinev, Kovel, Kovno, Krasnodar, Kremenchug, Lachva, Liapaja, Lida, Lutsk, Lvov, Minsk (Maly Trostinets), Mogilev, Mogilev-Podolski, Nesvizh, Novogrudok, Odessa, Pinsk, Riga (Rumbutal), Rostov, Rovno, Siauliai, Simteropol, Smolensk, Stonim, Ternopol, Tuchin, Vilna, Vinnitsa, Vitebsk, Volozhin, Zhitomir

And not a single mass graves cannot be located there? Maybe there are none to begin with?

PS: More than 100.000 corpses of German soldiers who died in Stalingrad have not been found yet.

I don’t think that the German POW’s from Stalingrad died all at the same time in the same place.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 10:12 am)

Sailor wrote:If only a few people are shot, here and there, no graves will ever be found, of course not.
These are the main places where the Einsatzgruppen allegedly killed large numbers:

Baranovichi, Berdichev, Berezhany, Bialystok, Brest-Litovsk, Brody, Chernovtsy, Derechin, Diatlovo, Dnepropetrovsk, Dvinsk, Gomel, Gorodenka, Grodno, Kedainiai, Kemenets-Podolski, Kharkov, Kherson , Kiev (Babi Yar), Kishinev, Kovel, Kovno, Krasnodar, Kremenchug, Lachva, Liapaja, Lida, Lutsk, Lvov, Minsk (Maly Trostinets), Mogilev, Mogilev-Podolski, Nesvizh, Novogrudok, Odessa, Pinsk, Riga (Rumbutal), Rostov, Rovno, Siauliai, Simteropol, Smolensk, Stonim, Ternopol, Tuchin, Vilna, Vinnitsa, Vitebsk, Volozhin, Zhitomir

And not a single mass graves cannot be located there? Maybe there are none to begin with?


We would be interested in hearing what you make of this account of the alleged massacres at Kamenets-Podolsk from the book by Mr. Breitman (see pp. 63-65). Do you have a problem with the authenticity of the police decodes as well?

An action against Hungarian Jews deported to the Ukraine dwarfed all previous killings in the South. Responding to initiatives from its Central Alien Control Office, the Hungarian government, in late June, had decided to rid the country of many of the Jewish refugees who had flocked there since 1938. Alien Jews were rounded up, crammed into freight cars, transferred across the border into the Ukraine, and marched to Kamenets-Podolsk, along the Dnieper River. Unprepared German authorities feared that these Jews would threaten their lines of communication, but Hungarian authorities had no interest in taking them back. On August 25, various German civil and military officials met at Vinnitsa, in the Ukraine, to deal with issues surrounding the impending transfer of authority from the military to a civilian administration (scheduled for September 1). During that meeting, a representative announced that Jeckeln hoped to complete the liquidation of eleven thousand Hungarian Jews by September 1.

Mass executions at Kamenets-Podolsk occurred over several days. The victims were forced to march into an area pocked with bomb craters and then to undress. A cross fire of machine guns brought them down; some were buried alive. Until recently, the best available information was that the executioners were units of the SS, Ukrainian auxiliaries, and a Hungarian sappers platoon. At the beginning of the events, Jeckeln listed the participating units and described their tasks: his staff company did the shooting, and Police Battalion 320 cordoned off the area. A related transmission revealed that the same two forces shot another forty-two hundred Jews two days later. Then his staff company claimed eleven thousand Jews. Another transmission near the end of the action indicated that Police Battalion 320 itself killed another twenty-two hundred Jews at Minkowy, just northeast of Kamenets-Podolsk.

After two days Jeckeln proudly reported that the grand total of Jews liquidated at Kamenets-Podolsk was about 20,000. The Einsatzgruppen report of September 11, couriered back to Berlin, contained updated information – the overall total of 23,6000, the fact that Jeckeln was in charge, and that “his commando unit” carried out the action – but less detail about the participants.

The victims included fourteen thousand to sixteen thousand Hungarian Jews; the remainder were Ukrainian Jews rounded up from nearby towns and villages. About two thousand of the deported Hungarian Jews escaped and survived. After initially withdrawing to quarters in nearby Proskurov, Police Battalion 320 sent patrols back to Kamenets-Podolsk to look for those who escaped and to deal with plundering by Ukrainians. Through the end of August 1941, Kamenets-Podolsk represented the largest single Nazi liquidation of Jews. (It was soon eclipsed by Babi Yar, outside Kiev, at the end of September.) It was not the work of the notorious Einsatzgruppen but the product of Jeckeln’s leadership and the efforts of his staff company and Order Policemen.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 10:54 am)

More of the same nonsense. Again no mass graves, only text making unsubstantiated assertions. The allegations here said to be contained in an 'Einsatzgruppen Report' substantiate my position that most of the alleged 'Reports' are simply claimed & never found, or forged. This is a classic example.
The victims were forced to march into an area pocked with bomb craters and then to undress.
After two days Jeckeln proudly reported that the grand total of Jews liquidated at Kamenets-Podolsk was about 20,000. The Einsatzgruppen report of September 11, couriered back to Berlin, contained updated information – the overall total of 23,6000,

23,600 thousand Jews alleged to have been killed in one place and zero physical evidence? Allegations of "plundering"...plundering of what?.. undressed bodies? There seemes to be a built in excuse here, the graves were "plundered"....therefore no traces of a mass grave. Ludicrous.
It was soon eclipsed by Babi Yar, outside Kiev, at the end of September.

Ah yes, again, the Babi Yar lie. That has been shoot down rather royally here in another thread, I suggest the search function for any interested reader.

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Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:40 am)

Hannover wrote:Where's the mass graves Max?


Some examples, Hannover:

Image

Jewish survivors watch as Poles exhume a mass grave in Sokolow Podlaski.

Date: 1945
Locale: Sokolow Podlaski, [Warsaw] Poland
Photographer: Unknown
Credit: Hyman Kawer, courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives
Copyright: USHMM

Image

Soviets exhume a mass grave in Zloczow shortly after the liberation.

Date: 1944
Locale: Zloczew, [Lodz] Poland
Photographer: Unknown
Credit: Herman Lewinter, courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives
Copyright: USHMM

Image

Jewish survivors stand in an opened mass grave among the exhumed bodies of the victims of a mass shooting in Biala Podlaska.

The Yiddish signs reads, "Exhumation/ of the Jewish martyrs/ who were murdered/ by the beastial Hitlerite murderers/ Biala Podlaska April 25, 1946."

Date: Apr 25, 1946 - May 2, 1946
Locale: Biala Podlaska, [Lublin] Poland
Photographer: Unknown
Credit: Arlene Chasin Strowman, courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives
Copyright: USHMM

Image

Soviet officers preside over the opening and exhumation of a mass grave at Fort IX.

Date: Aug 1944
Locale: Kaunas, Lithuania
Photographer: George Kadish/Zvi Kadushin
Credit: George Kadish/Zvi Kadushin, courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives
Copyright: USHMM

Image

A mass grave is prepared to bury the Jews murdered in a Jewish cemetery in the vicinity of Bilgoraj.

Date: 1942
Locale: Bilgoraj, [Lublin] Poland
Photographer: Unknown
Credit: Main Commission for the Prosecution of the Crimes against the Polish Nation, cou
Copyright: Public Domain

Image

Four men view the bodies of Jews shot at a Jewish cemetery in the vicinity of Bilgoraj.

Date: 1942
Locale: Bilgoraj, [Lublin] Poland
Photographer: Unknown
Credit: Main Commission for the Prosecution of the Crimes against the Polish Nation, cou
Copyright: Public Domain

Image

Members of the Jewish Religious Society of Czestochowa exhume a mass grave of Jews murdered by Germans during the war.

Date: Jan 1945
Locale: Czestochowa, [Katowice] Poland
Photographer: Unknown
Credit: Benjamin (Miedzyrzecki) Meed, courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives
Copyright: USHMM

Image

Men with an unidentified unit execute a group of Soviet civilians kneeling by the side of a mass grave.

Date: Jun 22, 1941 - Sep 1941
Locale: Kraigonev, USSR
Photographer: Unknown
Credit: National Archives, courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives
Copyright: Public Domain

Image

Jewish men are forced by Waffen-SS troops and SD officers to dig their own grave before being executed.

Date: 1942
Locale: USSR
Photographer: Unknown
Credit: State Archives of the Russian Federation, courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives
Copyright: Public Domain

Image

Members of a Lithuanian militia unit force a group of Jewish women from Panevezys to undress before their execution in the Pajuoste Forest.

According to reports from Einsatzkommando 3, commanded by Karl Jaeger, which was responsible for implementing the initial phases of the final solution in Lithuania, auxiliary companies like the Union of Lithuanian Riflemen were used in shooting actions from the very beginning of the German occupation. The infamous "Jaeger report" detailing the activities of EK 3 from 3 July to 25 November 1941 mentions five shooting actions at or near Panevezys in which Lithuanians presumably took part. The result of these allowed Jaeger to happily report "that the solution of the Jewish problem for Lithuania has been achieved by EK 3."

Date: Jul 1941 - Aug 1941
Locale: [Pajuoste Forest] Lithuania
Photographer: Unknown
Credit: Saulius Berzinis, courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives
Copyright: USHMM

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:58 pm)

It's interesting to see so many fraudulent photos in one place. The post above really belongs in our topics about fakes.

- captions:
Said by whomever to mean anything they wish, who can tell that these are always "Jews"...there is no verification of alleged locations, dates, nothing, just captions.

- source:
Most are of notorious Communist origin, or simply captioned by the so called US 'holocau$t Museum' with no basis in fact. Absolutely no on-the-ground verification...and for good reason.

- fakes
I ask our readers to look for indications of cut & paste fakery in many of these, different contrasts from one part of the 'photo' to another, soldiers said about to execute Jewish women but they are standing at attention, looking away from these "Jewish women"

- macabre humor
You gotta love the 1st one, a few people standing over a hole with
veritable movie prop skull setting on the edge of the hole. The 'grave' itself could not have held more than one guy anyway. This is "evidence"?

And this is what someone finds compelling. I note that they cannot produce any authentic, verifiable excavation/ forensic study of ANY alleged site. I challenge anyone to produce such studies.

1.2 million to 2 million allegedly killed by the Einsatzgruppen, but nary a real excavation to be found. There should be literally hundreds/thousands of enormous mass graves with tens of thousands of human remains according the standard storyline....AND they claim to know the exact site, but what do we have? Nothing. Nothing but faked photos with unsubstantiated captions, or miscaptioned photos which prove nothing about the allegations against the Germans.

And this is their best shot for mass graves. Game over.

- Hannover
Last edited by Hannover on Wed Feb 12, 2003 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:28 pm)

In reference to Max's 'photos' I suggest this thread.

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=147&start=0

Such fraudulent creations and creative captions are rampant within the realm of the 'holocau$t'.

Still no mass graves of Jews as alleged.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:49 am)

Max wrote:
Hannover wrote: Where's the mass graves Max?

Some examples, Hannover:[…]


I thought that we were looking for the mass graves in Latvia, Riga.

The pictures Max posted are from Poland, Russia and Lithuania, not a single one for Latvia, Riga.

By the way:
How do I know that the captions below the pictures are correct?
The post shows 10 pictures. All of them show people standing around. Have any of these been identified and could they authenticate the photos?

I have zero confidence in what is produced by the Soviets. Did the Soviets not also come up with 4 million dead in Auschwitz, 3 million steamed/gassed with diesel exhaust in Treblinka and 360,000 or so in Majdanek? And then they proved that the Germans killed the Polish officers in Katyn and hanged several German army officers publicly in Leningrad for that.
And later on they produced forged identification papers to have Demjanjuk deported to Israel.

I guess that it takes a true Holocaust believer to believe the Soviet nonsense.
:D

PS: It takes a long time to download this thread because of the many pictures which were not even related to Riga, Latvia. Is that really necessary, Max? Why abuse the forum this way?

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Postby Independent Thinker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:54 am)

Sailor wrote:I have zero confidence in what is produced by the Soviets. Did the Soviets not also come up with 4 million dead in Auschwitz, 3 million steamed/gassed with diesel exhaust in Treblinka and 360,000 or so in Majdanek?


Can you tell me where I can find all these claims? I would like to read them. Are they downloaded on a Revisionist site?

Sailor wrote:PS: It takes a long time to download this thread because of the many pictures which were not even related to Riga, Latvia. Is that really necessary, Max? Why abuse the forum this way?


Are you sure Max can answer? I haven't seen him lately, and he is otherwise active from what I have seen. Maybe he has been banned.

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:41 am)

These "decodes" which are alleged and not shown cannot be substantiated as fact. As well, there is no evidence on the ground to support them.

ex: one says 23,600 thousand Jews were supposedly killed in one place but there is no such site, it's a lie, very simple

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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