Deadly Diesel

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ClaudiaRothenbach
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Deadly Diesel

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:10 pm)

Here is an interesting experiment on Diesel fumes. 15 people survived a one hour fumigation with Diesel exhaust. What about the same experiment with gasoline engines?

22 September 1998

Deadly Diesel

Our understanding of the physiological effects of air pollution has taken a step forward with the release of results from a study where volunteers where exposed to common pollutants. This particular study focused on how our airways react to the tiny particles (less than ten microns in diameter) produced in the exhaust fumes of diesel engines.

In the experiment, carried out by researchers of the university hospitals of Umea (Sweden) and Southampton (UK), 15 healthy, non-smoking individuals, made up of 11 men and 4 women aged between 21 and 29 years, were exposed for one hour to diesel exhaust fumes inside an exposure chamber at the University of Umea. The level of diesel exhaust inside the chamber was comparable to that found in underground car parks, tunnels or the congested streets of major cities. Bronchial biopsies were then carried out

Despite the short exposure time, clear effects on the human volunteers were observed six hours after inhaling the fumes. The mucosa of their airways showed signs of an acute inflammation, characterized by up to three times the normal concentration of cells belonging to the immune system, known as neutrophiles and lymphocytes. The Swedish and British researchers are the first to demonstrate these effects in healthy subjects by means of mucosal biopsies and bronchoscopy. While the inflammation was clearly perceptible in the airways, the traditional lung tests (such as measuring the exhaled air volume) showed no abnormal variation. "Thanks to these analyses, we have been able to demonstrate that diesel fumes are much more dangerous than was so far assumed", said Dr Anders Blomberg of the University hospital of Umea, one of the main authors of the study. "To our knowledge, this is the first time such effects have been described in humans exposed to a concentration of diesel exhaust that may be encountered in the environment."

The fumes of diesel engines contain up to 100 times more soot than ordinary petrol engines, but this "particulate matter" is so tiny - less than ten microns in diameter - that it is not caught by any filtering device in our respiratory system. This means that the particles are inhaled in great quantities deep into the lungs, right into the delicate alveoli. Moreover, these particles can bind to a whole range of toxic compounds, such as metals or benzene derivatives, some of which are known to be carcinogenic.

Some researchers are now beginning to say that diesel particles, as well as causing respiratory inflammations, might also be involved in the aetiology of lung cancer. The particles are of the same size as those in tobacco smoke, and carry similar toxic substances on their surface.


http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980822132822data_trunc_sys.shtml

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Postby Goethe » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:54 pm)

All this says is that diesel contains irritants and those, over the long term, could be associated with lung cancer. The dumb allegation that the Germans used diesel to kill large numbers of people in minutes is not supported by this story, by science, by logic, or the fact that fuel was a particularily scarce commodity for the German war effort.

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Postby gasto » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:13 pm)

another proof of why diesel gas chambers are as fake as lampshade´s rumours...

good info 8)
If Human Soap rumour was fake, why can´t all the other absurd claims be too??

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:13 pm)

I don't think this study is particularly helpful to either side. It says that they were exposed to the amount of diesel fumes comparable to underground carparks and tunnels. We already know that people don't drop dead in those situations with that kind of exposure.

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Postby gasto » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:25 pm)

Richard Perle wrote:I don't think this study is particularly helpful to either side. It says that they were exposed to the amount of diesel fumes comparable to underground carparks and tunnels. We already know that people don't drop dead in those situations with that kind of exposure.


or the congested streets of major cities

I think that´s a pretty big amount of diesel....
If Human Soap rumour was fake, why can´t all the other absurd claims be too??

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:29 pm)

And what's most important is that the 'holocau$t' Industry cannot show us a study to support their claims of diesel gassings (or any gassing for that matter) as they allege them.

They cannot show what is not possible.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:47 pm)

gasto wrote:
Richard Perle wrote:I don't think this study is particularly helpful to either side. It says that they were exposed to the amount of diesel fumes comparable to underground carparks and tunnels. We already know that people don't drop dead in those situations with that kind of exposure.


or the congested streets of major cities

I think that´s a pretty big amount of diesel....


And also a very large area.

I'm by no means trying to support the holocaust here.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:20 pm)

Richard Perle says:
I don't think this study is particularly helpful to either side. It says that they were exposed to the amount of diesel fumes comparable to underground carparks and tunnels. We already know that people don't drop dead in those situations with that kind of exposure.

===========================

Actually it looks like it clobbers the Holocaust 'facts' that claim Diesel exhaust was the agent that killed millions. It pretty much says the biggest threat would be that persons breathing it could get lung cancer, which would mean years to develop from prolonged exposure. Holocaust 'facts' have it, lock up victims, introduce Diesel exhaust for 10 to 15 minutes, all dead. Then too, oops, some of the Diesel tales identify carbon monoxide as the agent. The study of focus didn't even test for carbon monoxide.

The study is just another example to show 'If not Diesel, then no Holocaust.

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:36 pm)

What would happen if the fumes were from a gasoline engine would depend on what the carbon monoxide concetration actually was in the tunnel. Anything over 0.4 percent would be dangerous, and raw gasoline engine exhaust might contain 5 percent normally. For this reason automotive tunnels are strongly ventilated to keep the CO levels down.

Diesel engines produce very little CO so this would not be a factor, although the exhaust is more pungent to the nostrils and contains health hazards from long-term exposure. Locomotive engineers, for example, might suffer elevated lung cancer rates, according to one study, but the data is not very conclusive and does not control for cigarette smokers.

What is conclusive is that nobody dies from inhaling diesel smoke in a few minutes. I have only been able to find one documented case of death by diesel exhaust, an 84 year old man manged to commit suicide with a diesel car, and the cause of death was pulmonary edema from inhaling smoke and soot and not from CO, which was not elevated in the blood.

Btw, diesel fuel was not more scarce than gasoline for the Germans during the war. Diesel fuel requires less refinement, whether derived from natural petroleum or from synthetic oil manufacture. Diesel engines were more scarce, however, unlike gasoline engines.

:D

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:05 pm)

The myth has it that people were packed into vans and diesel exhausts run directly into this confined space. That is much different to the kind of exposure that this study tested for, which was the kind of exposure we all face. Remember, gasoline exhausts can kill as we all know, and we face those fumes in these same carparks, tunnels and city streets at levels which aren't fatal.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:25 pm)

We used diesel driven boring machines for mile long underground tunnel construction. Also to drill holes through the bottom of concrete dams from the bottom inspection gallery into the granite foundation for the installation of grout curtains to make the installation water tight.

I am not aware of any negative effects to the workers.

I believe that diesel driven machinery is also used in underground coal and ore mines.

Of course these sites are well ventilated, but if the diesel exhaust gas would be very poisonous as some believe, the security and safety authoritie would not permit this.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:56 pm)

I like Richard Perle's analysis and comments that this experiment is neither here nor there, it's not applicable at all to revisionism.

I'm glad Claudia posted it though, because it brings up an important topic and points out the "speck" as in "speck of soot" nature of diesel exhaust.

Scott has a link on the bottom of his post to fpberg literature. Berg's contribution to revisionism is huge, with his research on producer engines which give a far higher CO output than regular gas engines. 20 times as high? His research shows that these engines were commonplace during the war. No reason to get a Russian Sub diesel engine! As I think Gerstein alleges. Scott might even be Berg in which case we have a well-known revisionist here on the forum!

I'm not sure if you can compare diesel gas chambers to a diesel engine in a tunnel or mine shaft, because the engine in a tunnel or shaft will burn up the oxygen right there, whereas "death chambers" pulled oxygen from the outside and then piped the exhaust into the chambers.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:49 am)

Richard Perle:
The myth has it that people were packed into vans and diesel exhausts run directly into this confined space. That is much different to the kind of exposure that this study tested for, which was the kind of exposure we all face. Remember, gasoline exhausts can kill as we all know, and we face those fumes in these same carparks, tunnels and city streets at levels which aren't fatal.

===========================

As the story has it the Germans came to use gas vans because it was being recognized shooting tens of thousands was too stressful on the morale of the troops and they sought a more peaceful way of killing all the Jews.

We don't know what would happen if Diesel exhaust was pumped directly into the closed chambers for ten or fifteen minutes. If anyone would die it wouldn't be from any particulate matter or any other component of the Diesel exhaust. There was an article in the L.A.Times about a person who died from the effects of Diesel exhaust. He worked at an airport loading baggage and the carts they used sometimes in close quarters were Diesel. He had worked at the job for some 15 years and then it all culminated into a severe respiratory disease.

At most, the alleged victims of Diesel chambers would have suffocated. Not a nice way to go. If it was CO by way of gasoline engines there are reports on cases that indicate anyone in a closed chamber would die in minutes. See article 'Carbon monoxide tidbits' for case histories of persons overcome by fumes from small engines in large volumes of space with ventilation, meaning the same input to air tight Holocaust chambers loaded with people would have been quite thorough in a short time.

Diesel engines are used in places where gasoline engines would be too dangerous even though the places may be ventilated.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:00 am)

I've often wondered why the gassing stories didn't involve gasoline engines. Would this have been simply the ignorance of those who made up the stories or was gas too precious? I'm not sure of the relative shortage of petrol and diesel during the war.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:32 am)

The 'holocau$t' Industry and the Believers have tried to switch the story from diesel to gasoline, but the horse had left the barn. The stories and usual 'eyewitness' lies were on record.

see this thread:
'attempted switch from alleged diesel 'gassings' to gasoline'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=53

It is well known and acknowledged that the Germans had tremendous fuel shortages, think about their desperate attempts to hold the oil fields in Rumania and their synthetic fuel plants. There are example after example in their records where the Germans speak of extreme shortages. To invent the stories of them using diesel OR even gasoline for alleged mass murder is simply another nail in the coffin of the 'holocau$t' mythology.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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