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simon1003
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BBC / Explosives

Postby simon1003 » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:37 am)

On the BBC Auschwitz documentary they apparently said that the Germans experimented mass-killings using high explosives in a bunker packed with people.

Is this another fairy tale, where has it come from?

Maly Jacek
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Postby Maly Jacek » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:43 am)

Probably the same "source" they got story of Arthur Nebe "discovery" of car exhaust potentials.

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Postby kk » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:06 am)

Any explosion guaranteed to kill all people in a densely packed above
ground building , ( except reinforced concrete bunkers )
would also guarantee it's demolition.
An explosion is a very unpredictable thing, just like trying to stop a running tap with your thumb: No one knows for sure in which direction the spray will go. Harnessing explosion shock waves was a major chapter in the 'Manhattan Project'.
An explosion that would kill everyone in a overcrowded, large room would be surely an 'overkill', using heat and mechanical blast to achieve that.
Atmospheric overpressure simply won't do the trick 100%.
(Something like the carnage inflicted in the air raid shelter in Baghdad in 1991)

But that would have been an old hat for military engineers in 1940

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Postby Maly Jacek » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:04 pm)

Looks like "bunker" story is just another canard anyway.If I recall it right according to BBC version of this event Widmann supposed to fill the bunker with people and then blow them up.There was also long passage quoted from "eyewintnesss" statment about clearing parts of the body from the trees etc.

Now have a look at that :

Artur Nebe, head of Einsatzgruppe B and of Department V (the Criminal Police) at the Reich Security Main Office, turned first to his his deputy, a man named Werner, and ordered him to have a chemist from the Criminal Technology Institute, Dr. Albert Widmann, come to Minsk with esplosives and metal hoses.An attempt to blow up a bunker with mentally ill patients inside had been a failure, so it was decided to use exhaust fumes in the experiment to be conducted at the asylum at Moghilev, east of Minsk. Dr. Widmann described the preparations for this operation and its progress


http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/widmann.html

OOOPS...

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:27 am)

Here is an interesting sequence of the IMT Nürnberg. Mr Jackson asks Mr Speer whether he was informed about the following experiment:

They brought 20,000 Jews into a village near Auschwitz and annihilated them with a new "Zerstörungsstoff" (destruction substance) without leaving traces. The temperatures were between 400 and 500°C. This story sounds like Hiroshima (if you tripple the number of murdered people).

Albert Speer said that he did not know anything about the experiment.

JUSTICE JACKSON: Man hat mir einen gewissen Bericht über ein Experiment, das in der Nähe von Auschwitz durchgeführt wurde, ausgehändigt, und ich möchte wissen, ob Sie davon gehört haben oder etwas davon wußten. Der Zweck dieses Experimentes war, ein schnelles und wirksames Mittel zu entdecken, mit dem man Menschen, ohne sich weiter - wie man es bisher getan hatte - mit Erschießen, Vergasen oder Verbrennen anstrengen zu müssen, auf dem schnellsten Wege vernichten konnte. Wie man mir mitgeteilt hat, wurde das Experiment in folgender Form durchgeführt:
In einem kleinen provisorischen Dorf, das für diesen Zweck vorübergehend aufgebaut wurde, brachte man 20000 Juden unter. Mit Hilfe dieses neu erfundenen Zerstörungsstoffes wurden diese 20000 Menschen fast augenblicklich vernichtet, und zwar derartig, daß auch nicht das geringste von ihnen übrig blieb. Die Explosion erzeugte eine Temperatur von 400 bis 500 Grad Celsius und zerstörte die Leute derartig, daß sie überhaupt keine Spuren hinterließen.
SPEER: Nein, das halte ich auch für absolut unwahrscheinlich. Wenn wir in der Vorbereitung ein derartiges Kampfmittel gehabt hätten, das wäre mir nicht unbekannt geblieben. Wir haben aber ein derartiges Kampfmittel nicht gehabt, denn es ist klar, daß auf dem Gebiet des chemischen Krieges ja auf beiden Seiten versucht wurde, alle Kampfmittel zu erforschen, die überhaupt nur möglich waren, weil man ja nicht wußte, welcher Teil mit dem chemischen Krieg anfängt.

JUSTICE JACKSON: Die Meldungen über neue Geheimwaffen waren also übertrieben und dienten nur dem Zweck, das deutsche Volk weiter zum Krieg anzuhalten?

SPEER: Das war in der Hauptsache in der letzten Phase des Krieges so. ...

IMT, Vol. XVI, P. 529f., June 21, 1946

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:32 am)

Claudia:

For more on the German atomic bomb at Nuremberg see:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1150

That thread provides a good example of the kind of contrived documents that were submitted at Nuremberg.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Free Minded » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:05 pm)

I seem to remember Clint Eastwood tossing a couple of hand grenades into a bunker at one time. It worked for him! :lol:

About as believable.


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