Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9527
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:44 pm)

A common tactic is for the holocaust Industry to refer to the alleged numbers of Jews in Europe as indicated in the alleged notes of the Wannsee Conference ... which was held to discuss 'final solution' to the Jewish problem by deportation & resettlement, not the alleged 'extermination'.

These numbers are so far off base that even prominient Jews have dismissed them. (according to Yehuda Bauer there were only 9 million Jews in ALL of Europe...A HISTORY OF THE HOLOCAUST by Yehuda Bauer. New York: Franklin Watts, 1982, 398pp, $15.95, ISBN 0-531-098621)
Wannsee indicates 11,000,000 Jews in Europe (ex.: 700,000 in France...which is patently absurd), therefore leading some to the conclusion that the minutes of that Wannsee meeting were tampered with.

It's interesting since we have the original document which postponed the conference to a later date, see scan here - http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Note080142.html - but not the original meeting notes.
Anyone seen the **original** Wannsee Conference minutes?

There is no doubt by Revisionists that the conference took place, and undoubtedly minutes were taken. However, whatever minutes actually do/did exist apparently have been manipulated in an attempt to create an outcome that would come closer to supporting the fraudulent assumption of '6,000,000'. That awkward undertaking was less than successful as there are howlers aplenty:

- the absurd numbers of Jews that are listed in these alleged 'translations'

- no mention of 'gas chambers' or mass murder as a 'solution'

- the markings on this alleged "copy 16 of 30" are in contradiction with normal German administrative procedure at the time

- Auschwitz commandant Hoess allegedly "confessed" that in August, 1941, Himmler told him to start gassing at Auschwitz and that it was already being done at Majdanek. So, we allegedly have mass extermination already in progress at Majdanek in Aug. '41, improved and underway at Auschwitz by October, 1941 and then in January 1942 we have Wannsee supposedly creating plans that have no bearing upon the current accepted timeline of mass extermination. Why hold a conference months after the alleged 'extermination plan' was already in progress?

The source of the Wannsee Protocol document, which claims to be "copy 16 of 30", is none other than Nuremberg prosecutor, arch judeo-supremacist / Zionist, Robert Max Kempner.

David Irving says this about shyster Kempner:
Kempner's behaviour with evidence was also highly questionable. He would later turn up in German foreign ministry files the Original Copy No. 16 (SIXTEEN) of the Wannsee Protocol, and bestow upon it a wholly undeserved reputation as a key document in the Final Solution of the Jewish Problem; despite the aura which now surrounds it, the document contains no explicit reference to the killing of Jews. It is complete with 'Geheime Kommandosache' rubber stamps. Not only did the R.H.S.A., the agency supposedly originating the document, use the civilian classification 'Geheime Reichssache' on it's documents, but the statistics contained in the document bore little relation either to each other or to reality.

There is further evidence of skulduggery in the documents collected by Kempner's office on the Final Solution. The Nuremberg document experts routinely produced 'staff evidence analysis sheets' on the documents that came into their hands, indicating where they were found, and which individuals were mentioned or incriminated by them.

The sheet on document 4055-PS, a photostat of parts of the German ministry of the interior file on the Final Solution, shows that when first analysed by the experts it contained four important items relating to discussions on definitions of Jews; one of these four documents originating in the spring of 1942, showed Staatssekretaer Franz Schlegelberger informing his staff at the justice ministry that Dr. Hans Lammers, chief of the Reich chancellery, had phoned to inform him the the Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler, had 'repeatedly' ordered the solution of the Jewish problem 'postponed until after the war was over'. This did not suit Kempner at all, and when the file was returned to the document centre this particular photostat was missing."

from: 'Nuremberg, the Last Battle', 1996, by David Irving; p.91-92.

There was a movie made about the Wannsee Conference supposedly based upon the Conference minutes. However since the minutes contained nothing about gas chambers and killing, they had to use the theatrical device of going off the record by creating 'talk' about killing. It was never explained of course, how they knew what was said off the record if there was no record.
It’s just another example of circular logic. 'We know the Holocaust happened so the Wannsee Conference was about killing Jews' and 'since the Wannsee Conference planned the killing of Jews it proved that the Holocaust happened as it's alleged'

- Hannover


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

avatar
gasto
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:40 am
Location: Argentina

Postby gasto » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:18 pm)

hhm...I always thought this pages were original

http://www.ghwk.de/deut/proto.htm
If Human Soap rumour was fake, why can´t all the other absurd claims be too??

User avatar
ClaudiaRothenbach
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:16 pm

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:55 pm)

The first original (copy 16 of 30) that was published by Kempner can be found here: http://vho.org/D/gzz/8.html (please go down to the bottom above the notes).

Yours is the second original copy 16 was found later (see exerpt from Irvings book). This one was written with a type writer with SS runes. The type writer that the first one was written with did not have SS runes. :D

See for example in the middle of page 2.

avatar
gasto
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:40 am
Location: Argentina

Postby gasto » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:10 pm)

so, which one is the original?? the one with the ss runes or the one without them??

Anyway, my point is that the Wannsee Conference papers do exist...
If Human Soap rumour was fake, why can´t all the other absurd claims be too??

avatar
neugierig
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 352
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 7:01 pm

Postby neugierig » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:39 pm)

Yes, the Wannsee Conference was supposed to be it. But, it appears that even the true believers are having second thoughts about the Wannsee minutes as evidence for mass extermination. Here are the opening sentences of an article by G. Aly, who praises a book by Gerlach who claims that Hitler, in a meeting of December 12. 1941, told a group of his close associates that he had decided to kill the Jews. No minutes of this meeting are presented, but, Gerlach claims Himmler in his Posen speech, as well as Frank, repeated what Hitler told them. Here then is the beginning of the article:

“This article appears with the friendly permission of the Berlin Verlag and the author. The original German edition appeared December 13, 1997 in the Berliner Zeitung.

The historian Christian Gerlach proves that on this day Hitler made the fundamental decision to annihilate all European Jews.

Historians have long searched for the order to annihilate the Jews or - insofar as they excluded a Fuehrer-order - for other central documents. The Wannsee Protocol was rejected. Here second-level men were to be found, here they spoke not of an order, but rather an authorization of Hitler. Characteristically, a pre-arranged agreement applied to this meeting, ordered from above. At the least, documentary criteria had to be found that permitted plausible inferences as to place, point in time and personal construction of such a conversation. The research led nowhere[…]”


Regards
Wilf

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9527
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:31 pm)

gasto said:
Anyway, my point is that the Wannsee Conference papers do exist...

Papers alleged to be the actual minutes that is. Why no original? Any one seen it?
Attempting to doctor up the text with 'copies' seems to be the reason why the original has disappeared into thin air. This seems to be the case with endless numbers of 'documents'.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Haldan
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: <secret>
Contact:

Postby Haldan » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:31 am)

It's a forgery that doesn't even mention extermination at all. Wilhelm Stäglich reproduced it in his book THE AUSCHWITZ MYTH. Peter Johannes Ney wrote a whole book about the document. He also wrote an article, look on www.vho.org

Also this, from Chapter 8 of Holocaust or Hoax?:

a) The Wannsee Protocol

For decades, it was claimed that the extermination of the Jews was decided at the Wannsee Conference in Berlin of 20 January 1942. Anyone who reads the (alleged) protocol of that conference (17), will discover that it contains no mention of any physical extermination of the Jews, nothing about gas chambers, and speaks only of "evacution" and "resettlement". The orthodox historians, as usual, offer the lazy excuse that these are code words for extermination.

Even if this document were genuine, it would in no way constitute proof for any extermination of the Jews, but rather for their deportation, which is not disputed by any revisionist. But the Wannsee Protocol is a rather crude forgery, as shown by several revisionist researchers, in greatest detail by Johannes P. Ney. The forgery is proven by absuridities of content (for example grossly exaggerated numbers of Jews living in Europe), as well as formal errors.

30 copies of the Wannsee Protocol are supposed to have been prepared. Of these 30 copies, only 1, the 16th, has survived, quite remarkably, in several different versions, in which SS is written sometimes in runes, and sometimes in normal script.

Even the exterminationists are distancing themselves further and further from the Wannsee protocol. In the Canadian Jewish News of 20 January 1992, Israeli Holocaust Specialist Yehuda Bauer, calls the belief that the conference arrived at any decision to exterminate the Jews, a "silly story". According to him, the whole caste of historians just blabbered a silly story for decades, like parrots. The "silly story" also appears in all schoolbooks.


-haldan
<?php if ($Holocaust == false ) {deny_repeatedly(); } else { investigate(); } ?>
Homage to Catalin Haldan

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9527
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:09 pm)

I bring this forward in response to the claim here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2048

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
ClaudiaRothenbach
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:16 pm

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:31 pm)

In the invitation letter http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Note080142.html we read:

Besprechung mit anschließendem Frühstück zum 20. Januar 1942 um 12,oo Uhr Berlin, Am Grossen Wannsee 56-58

This means:

Meeting with subsequent breakfast on Jan 20, 1942 at 12am.


Is this a joke? I mean they did not invite students.
It is absolutely unrealistic that the officials were invited to a breakfast at say 2pm.
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin

avatar
Bergmann
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:29 pm

Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:22 pm)

Holocaust historians like Browning and Evan deviate more and more from homicidal gas chambers and the Wannsee conference as the start of the Jewish Holocaust, and come up with that new concept, that the systematic extermination program of the Jews started with the campaign against the Soviet Union.

Unfortunately they neither find the Hitler extermination order nor the mass graves of hundred thousands or millions of dead massacred Jews.
:D

avatar
Germania
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:48 am

Postby Germania » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:37 pm)

Hannover wrote:Anyone seen the **original** Wannsee Conference minutes?


yes! the **original** Wannsee Conference minutes **for the Foreign Office**:

http://www.ghwk.de/deut/proto.htm

this settles it...

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9527
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:15 pm)

Germania chirped:
yes! the **original** Wannsee Conference minutes **for the Foreign Office**:

Sorry Germania, but you're asleep at the wheel.

Your link was previously given by gasto, he said:
hhm...I always thought this pages were original
http://www.ghwk.de/deut/proto.htm

and guess what .... you have shown us, as Claudia explained:
The first original (copy 16 of 30) that was published by Kempner can be found here: http://vho.org/D/gzz/8.html (please go down to the bottom above the notes).

Yours is the second original copy 16 was found later (see exerpt from Irvings book). This one was written with a type writer with SS runes. The type writer that the first one was written with did not have SS runes.

See for example in the middle of page 2

"original copy" ... Germania. What about alleged copies is hard to understand?

That settles it indeed. No original. Only "copies".

It would seem shyster Kempner, RIP, would have some explaining to do.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

avatar
Bergmann
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:29 pm

Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:54 pm)

Hannover wrote: That settles it indeed. No original. Only "copies".

I think that the report was stencilled in on a kind of a matrix, which then served to make a large number of copies. We seem do deal here with an original copy, and possibly a copy which was transcribed from this original copy.

In that case the transcribed copy should be marked (stamped and signed) to be authenticated for correctness by a public notary or whatever they have in Germany as an equivilant.

Or am I wrong?

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9527
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:50 am)

Now here are some interesting quotes:
"The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at. Wannsee was but a stage in the unfolding of the process of mass murder." (Canadian Jewish News, Jan. 30, 1992)

- Yehuda Bauer, former head of Yad Vashem

Nothing like a little spin doctoring damage control.

According to the New York Times, November 12, 1989, Bauer added when chided saying that he would not want to:
". . . add grist for the mills of the deniers of the Holocaust: "They can add, you know. . ."

- Auschwitz Revisionism: An Israeli Scholar's Case, NYT, Nov 12, 1989

Yep, we sure can. But can Believers?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9527
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Hannover » 7 years 8 months ago (Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:45 pm)

Time for a lesson, eh Wroclaw?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 12 guests