Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

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Pia Kahn
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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Pia Kahn » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:45 pm)

Because it is the phrase that you want to be explained. It is your phrase, I just rendered it into English so that everyone can understand.

"Forging phrases" is what you have been doing all along. Just read this thread.



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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Hektor » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:48 pm)

Reviso wrote:
Hektor wrote:
Reviso wrote:....
Google finds "privaten Berufen" 693 times, many times in academic books. How is it possible if "Private Berufe is a misnommer indicative of someone that has learned German well, but is lacking the general practice in the language and familiarity with the semantics and legal terminology." ?
R.

And how many times does it get for "Freiberufler"?

I got 4 260 000. That's about 10.000 times more then "privaten Berufen", which I also had a look at and noticed that mostly it wasn't really in the distinctive meaning of "Freiberufler" in German. It was used for people working in the private sector as opposed to the public sector. Now that can include people one would call "Freiberufler" in German, but that doesn't make it the term for this particular vocational group.

So sorry, just because someone use "privaten Berufe" in an academic journal, that doesn't invalidate the argument that "privaten Berufen" has been used semantically false in the text of the Wannsee-protocol.


The protocol cites some Berufe that are Private Berufe (since the professions cited in the Protocol are from the private sector, and, as you said, "Private Berufe" was used for people working in the private sector) and it calls them "Private Berufe". Where is the problem ?

.....
The problem is that it's used for professions that are semantically correct designated "Freie Berufe" or "Freiberufler" in German.
In fact "private Berufe" isn't a professional designation in German at all. The designation in German are Arbeiter, Angestellte, Beamte, Selbststaendige and Freiberufler.

The whole listing done, doesn't really make sense for a native German speaker:
Die berufsständische Aufgliederung der im europäischen Gebiet der UdSSR ansässigen Juden war etwa folgende:

In der Landwirtschaft
9,1 %
als städtische Arbeiter
14,8 %
im Handel
20,0 %
als Staatsarbeiter angestellt
23,4 %
in den privaten Berufen - Heilkunde, Presse, Theater, usw.
32,7%


Although there may be deviating listings from my designations above, the one in the Wannsee protocol text won't be one of them.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Pia Kahn » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:51 pm)

Correct hector. Handel "trade" and Landwirtschaft "Farming" are also a "private Beruf". Therefore, it doesn't make sense to not include them in the "private Berufe" above. Why are "private Berufe" listed as "alternatives" to "landwirtschaft" and "trade", when they are both "private Berufe"? The author of these lines clearly didn't know what he was talking about.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Reviso » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:58 pm)

The author of the Protocol only intended to give some examples, not a complete list.

And I take leave to repeat my request :
Let us see if there is a reader who understood Pia Kahn's explanations.
Could anybody, other than Pia Kahn, explain why this phrase is correct :
"Der Mann wurde betrunken zum Polizeikumpel geführt"
and why this phrase is incorrect :
"Die Juden werden straßenbauend in diese Gebiete geführt" ?
Thanks beforehand.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Pia Kahn » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 pm)

Reviso, it is time for you to answer questions! See above! We won't answer your questions any longer unless you are willing to answer ours! That's fair, isn't it?

"The author of the Protocol only intended to give some examples, not a complete list."

So what? The protocol lists farming as an alternative to "Private Berufe"! Why?
Last edited by Pia Kahn on Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Reviso » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:02 pm)

Pia Kahn wrote:Reviso, it is time for you to answer questions! See above! We won't answer your questions any longer unless you are willing to answer ours! That's fair, isn't it?


What question, precisely ?

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Pia Kahn » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:04 pm)

Reviso wrote:
Pia Kahn wrote:Reviso, it is time for you to answer questions! See above! We won't answer your questions any longer unless you are willing to answer ours! That's fair, isn't it?


What question, precisely ?


The questions we ask. Read the thread.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Pia Kahn » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:13 pm)

Since you, Reviso, do not answer any questions, I think it is fair to say that you are a troll.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Reviso » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:24 pm)

This question, perhaps : "Can you please explain to the informed readers, what "The jews are being lead street-building(ly) into these areas" means? "
I answered : "Why shoul I explain a phrase that you forged ?"
You answered that I too forged phrases. I didn't ask that you EXPLAINED the phrases that I quoted or proposed, I only asked if you considered them grammatically correct. You were free to say that you didn' see no sense in them. But my explanation of your "translation" is simple : it is not a translation, it is a caricature. I don't see any necessity to consider "strassenbauend" an adverb, and even if the German grammarians view it as an adverb, there is no reason to translate it by a word finishing by -ly. The English translation of "Der Mann wurde betrunken zum Polizeikumpel geführt" is not "The man was drunkly led to the guardhouse". A translation is not necessary a word-by-word transcription. A translation of said phrase could be : "The jews will be led into these areas while building roads".

And I take leave to repeat my request :
Let us see if there is a reader who understood Pia Kahn's explanations.
Could anybody, other than Pia Kahn, explain why this phrase is correct :
"Der Mann wurde betrunken zum Polizeikumpel geführt"
and why this phrase is incorrect :
"Die Juden werden straßenbauend in diese Gebiete geführt" ?
Thanks beforehand.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Pia Kahn » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:34 pm)

I didn't forge a phrase. Stop lying and start answering questions.

What does The jews are being lead street-buldingly into these areas mean?

I don't see any necessity to consider "strassenbauend" an adverb"

So you see it as an adjective of Jews! Adjectives must be inflected in German. Then, why is this term no inflected?

Oh and don't forget to answer:

Handel "trade" and Landwirtschaft "Farming" are also a "private Beruf". Therefore, it doesn't make sense to not include them in the "private Berufe" above. Why are "private Berufe" listed as "alternatives" to "landwirtschaft" and "trade", when they are both "private Berufe"? The author of these lines clearly didn't know what he was talking about.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Pia Kahn » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:37 pm)

Pia Kahn wrote:I didn't forge a phrase. Stop lying and start answering questions.

What does The jews are being lead street-buldingly into these areas mean?

I don't see any necessity to consider "strassenbauend" an adverb"

So you see it as an adjective of Jews! Adjectives must be inflected in German. Then, why is this term no inflected?

"...even if the German grammarians view it as an adverb,..."

So do you understand the German grammar better than German grammarians?

Oh and don't forget to answer:

Handel "trade" and Landwirtschaft "Farming" are also a "private Beruf". Therefore, it doesn't make sense to not include them in the "private Berufe" above. Why are "private Berufe" listed as "alternatives" to "landwirtschaft" and "trade", when they are both "private Berufe"? The author of these lines clearly didn't know what he was talking about.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Reviso » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:38 pm)

Pia Kahn wrote:So you see it as an adjective of Jews! Adjectives must be inflected in German. Then, why is this term no inflected?


And in "Der Mann wurde betrunken zum Polizeikumpel geführt", is "betrunken" inflected ?

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Pia Kahn » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:42 pm)

Reviso wrote:
Pia Kahn wrote:So you see it as an adjective of Jews! Adjectives must be inflected in German. Then, why is this term no inflected?


And in "Der Mann wurde betrunken zum Polizeikumpel geführt", is "betrunken" inflected ?


You are the one who has to answer questions now. I am not answering your invented questions about police"kumpel" - police buddies - any longer.

Why is the term "street-building" not inflected in German if it is used to characterized the subject of the phrase?

This is the meaning of the term adverb:

"An adverb is a word that modifies a verb, adjective, another adverb, determiner, noun phrase, clause, or sentence. Adverbs typically express manner, place, time, frequency, degree, level of certainty, etc., answering questions such as how?, in what way?, when?, where?, and to what extent?"

"Adjektive, die als Attribut zu einem Substantiv gebraucht werden, werden im Deutschen flektiert (gebeugt), d. h., sie zeigen in dieser Konstruktion Übereinstimmung mit dem Substantiv in den Merkmalen Kasus, Numerus und Genus."

"Adjectives that are used as an attribute of the noun are inflected in German, ..."

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverb#Ad ... d_Adjektiv
Last edited by Pia Kahn on Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Reviso » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:45 pm)

Pia Kahn wrote:
"...even if the German grammarians view it as an adverb,..."
So do you understand the German grammar better than German grammarians?

That is absurd and dishonest. I said that even if the German grammarians view "strassenbauend" as an adverb, there is no necessity to translate it in English by a word ending by -ly. I didn't criticize the German grammarians, I criticized your caricatural translation.

And I take leave to repeat my request :
Let us see if there is a reader who understood Pia Kahn's explanations.
Could anybody, other than Pia Kahn, explain why this phrase is correct :
"Der Mann wurde betrunken zum Polizeikumpel geführt"
and why this phrase is incorrect :
"Die Juden werden straßenbauend in diese Gebiete geführt" ?
Thanks beforehand.

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Re: Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

Postby Pia Kahn » 6 months 1 week ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:48 pm)

"I said that even if the German grammarians view "strassenbauend" as an adverb, there is no necessity to translate it in English by a word ending by -ly."

Oh but you say that it is not an adverb, and you didn't notice that I put "ly" in brackets as a suggestion. It doesn't make any sense with or without "ly". So you claim to know German grammar better than German grammarians, why?

Now don't forget to answer the following question:

Handel "trade" and Landwirtschaft "Farming" are also a "private Beruf". Therefore, it doesn't make sense to not include them in the "private Berufe" above. Why are "private Berufe" listed as "alternatives" to "landwirtschaft" and "trade", when they are both "private Berufe"? The author of these lines clearly didn't know what he was talking about.


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