Are the Leuchter findings defeating to Revisionists ??

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gonzo
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Are the Leuchter findings defeating to Revisionists ??

Postby gonzo » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:39 pm)

from Germar Rudolfs book , The Rudolf Report

RE:Leuchters Findings and what he reported at the trial

"All samples taken from the gas chambers supposedly used for mass human extermination exhibited either no or only negligible traces of cyanide, while the sample from the delousing chambers taken for use as control purposes exhibited enormously high cyanide concentrations."

since there WERE traces of cyanide found in some of the destroyed "genocidal gas chambers" does this not hurt the Revisonist position.?

If I were a judge, I would HAVE TO decide that the Leuchter report has reported their is some evidence of cyanide contamination. I would have to find Zundel's claims without justification.

what do you think?

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:15 pm)

The "traces" are background levels, about the same as anywhere and the limitations of the sensitivity of the test. I don't see how it can seriously be argued that cyanide was used in the Krema buildings beyond a possible occasional fumigation, as would be expected.

:D

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:20 pm)

That's it: they had basically fumigated that building at one time.

In the Rudolf book, notice the pictures of the delousing building. There's so much cyanide reaction that they're turning the outside of the building blue!
Last edited by Carto's Cutlass Supreme on Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:47 pm)

Leuchter, while his work opened the door, is passe.

The 'holocau$t' Industry likes to present the strawman argument that Leuchter's work is the definitive end all, be all for Revisionism research.
That's is far from correct.

It's the later The Rudolf Report which has surpassed Leuchter's work.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html

Both have in fact agreed though, the 'gas chambers' tales are just that, tall tales which are simply and utterly destroyed by science, logic, and rational thinking.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby gonzo » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:00 am)

reasonable answer...yes likely building was sprayed with a fumigant as protection from typhus epidemic

Regarding the rubble in which Dr. Leuchter recieved the samples...

The tests indicate they were not Gas chambers for fumigation purposes....SO......Does anyone know what these buildings actually were?

were they just simply barracks? Mess halls? administration buildings?.

This should be easy to prove....

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:13 am)

gonzo,

Why are you fixated on Leuchter? He's yesterday's news.

Actually read the Leuchter Report and then read The Rudolf Report.

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby gonzo » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:35 am)

Hannover wrote:gonzo,

Why are you fixated on Leuchter? He's yesterday's news.

Actually read the Leuchter Report and then read The Rudolf Report.

- H.


I am not not actually.....but i do respect him...The Rudolf report shows that he has solid references from an array of high profile people. (before 1990) I was just curious on the traces of cyanide he found...but as was pointed out here ...these buildings, (crematorians apparantly) would have been deloused from time to time.

I will continue reading the Rudolf Report.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:35 am)

The buildings were air raid shelters. The Nazis blew them up not to destroy evidence, but so the Soviets couldn't use them.

The Wall Street Journal had an article last summer how the Polish government also did tests after Leuchter, and had the same results. They explained it away in various ways due to politics.

In short, they were air raid shelters that had been fumigated once or twice. I'm not sure but I think other buildings also had a trace of cyanide. But the actual delousing building goes off the graph.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:54 am)

CCS stated:
But the actual delousing building goes off the graph [with cyanide residue].

Which is exactly what the alleged homicidal gas chambers would have done, IF they had been homicidal gas chambers.

It doesn't get much simpler than that.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Temporary on hold » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:06 am)

You have to be careful how you present that argument. The correct way to pose it is to consider the alleged extermination rates at the chambers Leuchter tested. Those extermination rates were said to have been millions killed by cyanide gas produced from Zyklon B. If you interpolate the high amounts of cyanide the exerminationist gassing rate would have required you would have found high amounts of cyanide residue in the morgue walls. In order to account for the lack of high residue amounts in the morgue walls the industry concocted some highly complex formulas described by Dr Green. They basically said a chemical reaction threshold was reached in the delousing chamber because the gassing period was several hours, while no such reaction occurred in the gas chambers because the gassing period was brief. Green entered a complex formula of high science and cyanide reactivity rates compared to the gas chamber walls, their acidity, temperature, moistness, and exposure periods.

You can pretty much ignore Dr Green because he's inventing things. You can find a series of inventions to account for the lack of residue on the gas chamber walls. Washing down after each gassing, and painting after each gassing, are two examples. Realizing their residue levels were impossible the industry came up with mesh Zyklon introduction columns. They needed to invent a reason for the lack of residue so they invented these devices to get the Zyklon out of the chamber as soon as possible.

The simple fact here is if the number of people claimed to have been gassed was true there would have to have been a lot of cyanide residue in the morgue walls. If somebody cared to build a mock gas chamber made of the exact same materials and tested it you would find that chemical threshold nonsense to be complete bunk and large amounts of cyanide residue would show up on tests like Leuchter's...

If you want to observe mistakes that hurt credibility look at Green's statement in the Irving Trial. He's clearly covering up and blatantly denying facts...

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:45 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote
The Wall Street Journal had an article last summer how the Polish government also did tests after Leuchter, and had the same results.


Could you copy this article somewhere here into the forum please?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:16 am)

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote
The Wall Street Journal had an article last summer how the Polish government also did tests after Leuchter, and had the same results.


Could you copy this article somewhere here into the forum please?

The article can be downloaded from here:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110005318

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:33 am)

This article can be debated here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1216

Try to search this Forum for these, we have a lot of material that has already been posted, if you look.

Here's the text:
Wall Street Journal
http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110005318
LEISURE & ARTS

Preserving Auschwitz
Forensic evidence of the Holocaust is the best answer to the deniers.

BY TIMOTHY RYBACK
Wednesday, July 7, 2004

Last month, Jarek Mensfelt, spokesman for the Auschwitz memorial site, announced plans to preserve the ruins of the gas chambers and crematoria in the notorious death camp at Birkenau near the Polish town of Oswiecim. "This is an attempt to keep it as it is now--in ruins--but not let the ruins go," he said. "It was meant to be here forever as a warning."
In the coming weeks, as the Auschwitz preservationists begin their work, they should be guided by the knowledge that these heaps of dynamited concrete and twisted steel are not only historic artifacts but among the few remnants of untainted, forensic evidence of the Holocaust.

Of course, the historical and circumstantial evidence of a premeditated Nazi plan to exterminate the Jewish population of Europe is overwhelming. There are the watch-tower-girded enclosures of Nazi concentration camps and the extensive testimonials of Holocaust survivors, as well as the court protocols of Nazi war criminals, but there is little forensic evidence proving homicidal intent. The Nazis were scrupulous when it came to obscuring the "Final Solution" in bureaucratic euphemism and also dismantling or obliterating their machinery of death. The dearth of hard evidence has fueled a growth industry in Holocaust-denial.

The revisionists' plaint is simple: They demand a proverbial "smoking gun" to prove that the Nazis deliberately and systematically designed an industrial system of extermination. They do not deny that millions of European Jews died from malnutrition, exhaustion and disease. They do not even deny that Zyklon B gas was employed at Auschwitz, but they claim it was used for delousing rather than homicidal purposes. One French critic has denounced them as "assassins de la memoire"--murderers of memory.

Auschwitz has been a particular target of Holocaust deniers--in particular, the gas chamber in Auschwitz I, the original base camp a mile east of Birkenau. It was here that some of the first experiments with poison gas were undertaken in a converted air-raid shelter refitted with air-tight doors and special ducts for homicidal purposes. Dynamited by the Nazis in the autumn of 1944, the gas chamber was reconstructed after the war. As one revisionist notes: "The official view holds that the Soviets and Poles created a 'gas chamber' in an air-raid shelter that had been a 'gas chamber.' The revisionist view holds that Soviets and Poles created a 'gas chamber' in an air-raid shelter that had been an air-raid shelter."
While most serious historians refuse to dignify such statements with a response, Polish administrators have taken the bait. In response to revisionist charges, they tested the gas chamber walls for residual traces of cyanide gas but found none. Unlike the delousing chambers, whose walls still show cyanide "staining," the gas chambers betrayed no residual traces of Zyklon B. The homicidal process was so murderously brief that the cyanide never penetrated the interior surface. Similarly, it was found that repeated postwar "cleaning" had leached the last traces of cyanide from the heaps of human hair, one of the most damning pieces of Holocaust evidence.

Four years ago, this evidence was used by the revisionist David Irving in his libel suit against Emory University historian Deborah Lipstadt. Though the judge handed down an unequivocal verdict against Mr. Irving, the Holocaust deniers remain undeterred. "While the judgment in the Irving-Lipstadt trial is certainly a heavy blow for Irving personally," a leading revisionist publication observed, "it is only a temporary setback for the ultimately unstoppable march of revisionist scholarship."

In the battle against Holocaust deniers, Birkenau's extermination facilities remain important forensic evidence. Today, the ruined structures lie at the far end of the camp--beyond the railway line and the infamous "ramp" where Josef Mengele once stood to make his "selections"--tumbled and broken plates of concrete that rise from the earth like arctic ice shoals, the remnants of a once horrifically efficient piece of machinery.

Between 1942, when they were first put into operation, and 1944, when they were dynamited, more than a million human beings--mostly Jewish--were fed into these extermination plants, forced into subterranean chambers and gassed, their corpses removed and transported by mechanical conveyance to the crematoria ovens. The chimneys belched smoke into the air. The remnant ash was scattered in the surrounding fields, or dumped in a nearby pond whose muddied bottom, even today, is of a sticky gray viscosity laced with matchstick-size splinters of human bone.

The horrors of this machinery have been preserved in the classic memoirs of survivor-authors like Elie Wiesel and Primo Levi, in the myriad recorded testimonies of Holocaust survivors, and in the trial protocols of Nazi perpetrators.
But, as with any account filtered through human memory, this "evidence" is subject to challenge and rebuttal. There is no arguing with the presence of the Birkenau gas chambers. Here the proof of the Holocaust is written in concrete and steel.

This summer, as the preservationists clear the weeds and sort through the rubble, they should work in the knowledge that they are not just preserving a "warning" for the future but also excavating the hard evidence of evil.

Mr. Ryback is author of "The Last Survivor: Legacies of Dachau."
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Postby The_Skunk » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:35 pm)

The trouble with the whole Holocaust fraud is people can believe Jews would make up an enormous lie and WHY they do it.

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Postby Malle » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:56 pm)

The_Skunk wrote:The trouble with the whole Holocaust fraud is people can believe Jews would make up an enormous lie and WHY they do it.


The Jewish people as a group didn’t invent the Holocaust. It was the Soviets (8 Jews out of 10 persons in NKVD) simply because they had Katyn in their wardrobe. How can we get away with this they say? Simple, claiming that the Germans were 100 times worse.

I’ll think it was a lie that would have died 2-3 years after war, but then we have the Jews that want to create a new state in Palestine. So they keep the lie alive to create Israel. And now we live in 2005. The state of Israel could never exist without the Holocaust.
I must be a mushroom - because everyone keeps me in the dark and feeds me with lots of bullshit.


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