!! Revisionist Ernst Zuendel arrested in the U.S. !!

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9974
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

!! Revisionist Ernst Zuendel arrested in the U.S. !!

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:00 am)

Briefly:
Zuendel, former Canadian of German descent, is best known for his court cases in Canada where he was accused of "spreading false news" by publishing 'holocaust' Revisionist material.
He has never advocated violence, has no record of violence, and is an ardent free speech advocate.
Here is the latest 'ZGram', prepared by Zuendel's American wife, Dr. Ingrid Rimland, a Revisionist herself. Her family, which had resided in the USSR, was horribly victimized by the communists.

- Hannover

ZGram - Where Truth is Destiny

February 6, 2003

Good Morning from the Zundelsite:

Today, I have sad news to report. Ernst Zundel was arrested
yesterday, allegedly on an immigration violations matter. In a
nutshell, he was told that he had missed showing up at a scheduled
immigration hearing in May of 2001. Things are still very sketchy,
but I will tell you what I know and, in essence, documented for
Ernst's immigration attorney:

[START]

February 5, 2003

This is what I remember about Ernst's arrest by the officers of INS:

It is now 1:10 pm.

Shortly after 11 a. m. the door bell rang. I was in my office. I
remember the time because I am on a diet and I knew I could have a
snack at 11 a.m. Ernst and John, a local man who helps out with odd
jobs, were working on Ernst's painting, framing some of them.

Two minutes or so later, Ernst came into my office and said, as I
remember it. "Guess what. The INS guys are here because I am
supposed to have missed a hearing."

I went outside with him, and there were a total of 5 men, one of them
in uniform. (John later told me that the man in uniform was the
local deputy sheriff.) Ernst stood by the hood of John's car with one
of the officers handing him a pad with a one-page text that he was
trying to get Ernst to sign.

Ernst asked if he could call his lawyer. He was told that he could not.

I asked if I could call a lawyer, and I was told that I could not.

The demeanor of the men, I felt, was threatening. Ernst said he
wanted to read the document he was to sign, and was told the men did
not have all day. Nonetheless, he read it very carefully, then told
them that he never received a request for a hearing. I reiterated
that as well. I also said that we had received a notification that
said a hearing might take "up to 36 months". (Ernst had applied for
permanent residency status in the US in the summer of 2000) The
officer just shrugged. Ernst was again urged to sign the paper, and
I suggested that he put a note at the bottom stating that he had
never received a hearing date. Ernst then said, as I remember it:
"What happens if I don't sign it?" and he was told by the man who
stood to his left: "Then we'll have to arrest you." "And if I sign
it?" At that, the man said: "Either way. We are here to arrest
you."

Thereupon Ernst signed the paper, I believe. Maybe he just wrote his
objection. I never saw what was written there, nor was I given a
copy. Ernst then asked me to get him a jacket and his passport. I
went upstairs and one of the agents followed me. He was very snoopy
and looked around in several rooms but did not touch anything. He
only said: "You have a nice house. You have a lot of books. Your
husband likes to read?" I said: "We both like to read."

I found the jacket and passport, and when I came down, Ernst had
emptied his pockets of his bills and money. It lay on the hood of
John's car. He said to me: "Remember what I told you? That's what
they were going to do. Use a bureaucratic excuse to get me." (That
was the meaning of his words. I don't remember them exactly.)

I had the presence of mind to ask the names of the officers. They
are: John Barnes, Gary Slaybough (apparently the boss), Scott
Pitman, Sat D. (?) Lee, and County Sheriff Steve Watson.

Ernst then said to the officers: "I am on medication. Can I take my
medication along?" He was told that he could. He asked me to get
it, and I went upstairs to get it. Again, one of the agents followed
me. I was shaking by that time, but I got his medication in a
plastic grocery bag and took it down. I saw that he was being put in
handcuffs. I said, thinking of his sore wrist: "Is that necessary?
There's five of you. He isn't going to run away." One of the
officers said: "We do that to all of them, not to show favoritism."
Then Ernst was led away.

I did not see in which car he was put, or if he waved goodbye. It
all happened very fast.

Our helper, John, was there the whole time because he had worked with
Ernst on his painting frames in the garage, and he witnessed
everything. I went upstairs, found our immigration lawyer's number,
and called him. I told John to stay with me and listen so I would
have a witness.

The immigration lawyer said he knew nothing of a hearing; he had not
been informed either. He also said that people didn't get arrested
for missing a hearing. He said he would call around and find out
what was going on. I told him that one of the officers had told me
that Ernst was being taken to Knoxville, and that I would be called
and informed what would happen to him. (So far, I have not yet been
called by any of the agents.) The lawyer repeated that he would call
around to find out what was going on and he would call me back.

I then called another attorney who is a family friend who had been
with us when we first met the immigration lawyer. This attorney
thought that the arrest probably had to do with "war fever" - that
immigration was rounding up people and Ernst's enemies took advantage
of the situation and put on pressure in the right places. He also
thought there might come the question of bail, and that bail for a
federal arrest was very high. I said that we would not be able to
pay it.

Our friend then offered to have his in-laws come and stay with me for
a few days. I told them I had trusted friends in the area and would
be all right.

I then talked briefly with John and asked for his recollection. John
told me that he was asked for ID and some nosy questions, and he also
said he perceived the agents as threatening.

I told him that chances were he would be interrogated, and to make
sure to tell the truth. I told him that I was sure he knew that
Ernst had a high profile, but that he also knew we were decent people
who had nothing to hide. I told him it was very important to tell
the truth is he knew it.

Our lawyer friend then called me back and said that he had had a very
good conversation with the immigration lawyer who thought that a
judge had not ordered the arrest, that the arrest came from the
Immigration Commissioner - that is, from the top.

John is upstairs writing down what he saw and experienced.

Ingrid Zündel

[END]

I only want to add that I have since talked to Ernst twice, last
night and this morning. He is being held in a neighboring county
jail and expects to be sent "elsewhere". He also said to look in the
drawer of his night stand for my Valentine's present.

How do I feel? I feel like I felt as a child when my father was
taken away by Soviet goons, under a similar flimsy pretense and
without any prior notification. My readers know that I never saw my
father again.

I expect to see Ernst again - make no mistake about that!

That is all I know and want to say at this time.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Hebden
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:17 am
Location: Here and there, mostly there

Re: !! Revisionist Ernst Zuendel arrested in the U.S. !!

Postby Hebden » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 8:51 am)

ZGram - Where Truth is Destiny

I then talked briefly with John and asked for his recollection. John
told me that he was asked for ID and some nosy questions, and he also
said he perceived the agents as threatening.


Speaking as one who has been the subject of a wrongful arrest, we doubt whether a party of arresting officers is ever perceived as non-threatening by those unfamiliar with the experience. The fact that Ms. Rimland reported herself physically shaking shows what a heightened emotional state she was in.

Let's hope Mr. Zundel doesn't share the same fate as Mr. Irv Rubin.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9974
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 10:25 am)

While Ingrid was upset, John as well perceived the officers as threatening.
Ofcourse, not being permitted to call a lawyer certainly is problematic, being 'asked' to sign papers by 5 guys with guns is certainly threatening and problematic.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Hebden
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:17 am
Location: Here and there, mostly there

Postby Hebden » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 10:51 am)

Hannover wrote:While Ingrid was upset, John as well perceived the officers as threatening.
Ofcourse, not being permitted to call a lawyer certainly is problematic, being 'asked' to sign papers by 5 guys with guns is certainly threatening and problematic.

- Hannover


We only have Ms. Rimland's version of events to go by, but we can't see much cause for concern. The fact Mr. Zundel was not allowed to call his lawyer is not significant in itself. He was not yet under arrest and was presumably allowed to make a call at an appropriate time. We can't comment on what he was expected to sign, but the fact he apparently did so suggests to us that it wasn't exactly incriminating.

5 guys with guns? Aren't American cops usually armed?

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9974
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:07 am)

Yes, since we only have Ingrid's info., that is what we discuss.

Police said: "Either way. We are here to arrest you." And ofcousre, that makes 2 witnesses besides Zuendel himself.

So he was arrested on site & no call to a lawyer was permitted. Being rather intimidated, he signed the papers. That is the purpose of the right to call a lawyer; they can offer immediate, detached advice, guaranteeing Zuendel his basic rights.

Assuming all is correct as Ingrid says, this is a travesty of justice. Then there is the actual charge, that we shall see about.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Hebden
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:17 am
Location: Here and there, mostly there

Postby Hebden » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:37 am)

Hannover wrote:Yes, since we only have Ingrid's info., that is what we discuss.




Police said: "Either way. We are here to arrest you." And ofcousre, that makes 2 witnesses besides Zuendel himself.

So he was arrested on site & no call to a lawyer was permitted. Being rather intimidated, he signed the papers.


How do you know if he was intimidated or not? Given Mr. Zundel's familiarity with legal matters, one wouldn't think he'd be foolish enough to sign his life away, especially since he was to be arrested in any event.

That is the purpose of the right to call a lawyer; they can offer immediate, detached advice, guaranteeing Zuendel his basic rights.


The right to call a lawyer only takes effect after an arrest and then only at an appropriate time. We note that Mr. Zundel asked to get his medicine and was permitted to do so. The officers all identified themselves when asked.

Assuming all is correct as Ingrid says, this is a travesty of justice. Then there is the actual charge, that we shall see about.

- Hannover


Seems to us like a tempest in a teapot. We're sure though that Ms. Rimland will get a lot of mileage out of it.

neugierig
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 352
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 7:01 pm

Postby neugierig » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:49 pm)

Hebden is missing the point, purposely? Zündel was taken away (arrested?) by 5 officials. His ‘crime’? Failing to appear at an immigration hearing neither he nor his immigration lawyer claim to know anything about. He wasn’t hiding, so why not sent him a reminder? By all means have it, the reminder, served by an official, but to send 5 guys to pick him up? It's not as if he is a dangerous criminal, or is he? I lived in the former DDR for a while, where things like that happened frequently, but in “The land of the free and the home of the brave”? Makes me wonder.

Wilf

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9974
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:53 pm)

So, we have the police statement"

"We are ***here*** to arrest you."

Hebden had claimed Zuendel was not arrested on site.

Hebden said that Zuendel has the right to a lawyer only upon arrest, apparently ignoring the fact the Zuendel was placed under arrest at Zuendel's home and then denied his phone call to a
lawyer.

Then Hebden, apparently looking for an out says:

"and then only at an appropriate time" can he make his call...without defining this "appropriate time".

Ofcourse, 'asking' Zuendel to sign a document, which is a legal document, without allowing Zuendel prior legal counsel is certainly actionable and is one of the purposes of the law granting a phone call to a lawyer.

Then Hebden brings in irrelevent info. about Zuendel being allowed to get his RX, and the cops identifying themselves...which has nothing to do with being denied the right to his call.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Sailor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:54 pm
Location: California

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:11 pm)

God’s darlings don’t like Zündel and are trying to take the man out.

Hebden wrote:In order to save revisionism, we shall have to destroy it.


How so?

:D

User avatar
Moderator
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1677
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:23 am

Postby Moderator » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:39 pm)

I pulled a lot of trash talk & off topic posts from both sides here.

Apparently the temperature is just too high, as I can't even finish here and new trash rolls in, the thread is locked.

Moderator


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests