phoney Iraqi 'mass graves' look like 'holocau$t' phonies

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phoney Iraqi 'mass graves' look like 'holocau$t' phonies

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:38 am)

caption with photo:
Iraqi men look at human remains uncovered from a mass grave on the outskirts of al-Kifal. Iraq announced it plans to open a national center to track down people who went missing during the regime of Saddam Hussein and to identify tens of thousands of bodies discovered in mass graves since his overthrow.
(AFP/File/Marwan Naamani)

What a joke, why don't they show the actual alleged mass grave? The claims range from hundreds of thousands to over one million and all we see is a skull & leg bone. This reminds me so much of the nonexistent 'holocaust' mass graves.

We hear lots of talk about huge mass graves in Iraq & huge mass graves of Jews as part of the 'holocau$t' story, but when push comes to shove we see nothing to support the claims.

see other threads:

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:33 am)

I know. The parallels are something else. One of the things that got me into revisionism was seeing the similarities to Saddam, and thinking "wait a minute..."

That and seeing the phrase "Islamofascism" come up.

The stories about the mideast enemies of Israel are almost as ridiculous as holocaust stories. Example: you can find plenty of websites showing how the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem of the 1930's, (who Yasir Arafat was purportedly related to,) was a big player in the Nazi's extermination project!

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:37 pm)

So Saddam has been made the scape-goat! Not the Germans this time?

The compelling evidence of both Saddam and Hitler's terrible atrocities have been revealed!

Now see what the 'good-guy's' get up to.

Not truly about the Industry, but sometimes the hypocrisy has to be known. But so many children....So....So many children!!

Anything goes when Israel's security is at stake though.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:15 pm)

PM admits graves claim 'untrue'

Peter Beaumont, foreign affairs editor
Sunday July 18, 2004
The Observer

Downing Street has admitted to The Observer that repeated claims by Tony Blair that '400,000 bodies had been found in Iraqi mass graves' is untrue, and only about 5,000 corpses have so far been uncovered.

The claims by Blair in November and December of last year, were given widespread credence, quoted by MPs and widely published, including in the introduction to a US government pamphlet on Iraq's mass graves.

In that publication - Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves produced by USAID, the US government aid distribution agency, Blair is quoted from 20 November last year: 'We've already discovered, just so far, the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves.'

On 14 December Blair repeated the claim in a statement issued by Downing Street in response to the arrest of Saddam Hussein and posted on the Labour party website that: 'The remains of 400,000 human beings [have] already [been] found in mass graves.'

The admission that the figure has been hugely inflated follows a week in which Blair accepted responsibility for charges in the Butler report over the way in which Downing Street pushed intelligence reports 'to the outer limits' in the case for the threat posed by Iraq.

Downing Street's admission comes amid growing questions over precisely how many perished under Saddam's three decades of terror, and the location of the bodies of the dead.

The Baathist regime was responsible for massive human rights abuses and murder on a large scale - not least in well-documented campaigns including the gassing of Halabja, the al-Anfal campaign against Kurdish villages and the brutal repression of the Shia uprising - but serious questions are now emerging about the scale of Saddam Hussein's murders.

It comes amid inflation from an estimate by Human Rights Watch in May 2003 of 290,000 'missing' to the latest claims by the Iraqi Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi, that one million are missing.

At the heart of the questions are the numbers so far identified in Iraq's graves. Of 270 suspected grave sites identified in the last year, 55 have now been examined, revealing, according to the best estimates that The Observer has been able to obtain, around 5,000 bodies. Forensic examination of grave sites has been hampered by lack of security in Iraq, amid widespread complaints by human rights organisations that until recently the graves have not been secured and protected.

While some sites have contained hundreds of bodies - including a series around the town of Hilla and another near the Saudi border - others have contained no more than a dozen.

And while few have any doubts that Saddam's regime was responsible for serious crimes against humanity, the exact scale of those crimes has become increasingly politicised in both Washington and London as it has become clearer that the case against Iraq for retention of weapons of mass destruction has faded.

The USAID website, which quotes Blair's 400,000 assertion, states: 'If these numbers prove accurate, they represent a crime against humanity surpassed only by the Rwandan genocide of 1994, Pol Pot's Cambodian killing fields in the 1970s, and the Nazi Holocaust of World War II.'

It is an issue that Human Rights Watch was acutely aware of when it compiled its own pre-invasion research - admitting that it had to reduce estimates for the al-Anfal campaign produced by Kurds by over a third, as they believed the numbers they had been given were inflated.

Hania Mufti, one of the researchers that produced that estimate, said: 'Our estimates were based on estimates. The eventual figure was based in part on circumstantial information gathered over the years.'

A further difficulty, according to Inforce, a group of British forensic experts in mass grave sites based at Bournemouth University who visited Iraq last year, was in the constant over-estimation of site sizes by Iraqis they met. 'Witnesses were often likely to have unrealistic ideas of the numbers of people in grave areas that they knew about,' said Jonathan Forrest.

'Local people would tell us of 10,000s of people buried at single grave sites and when we would get there they would be in multiple hundreds.'

A Downing Street spokesman said: 'While experts may disagree on the exact figures, human rights groups, governments and politicians across the world have no doubt that Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of his own people and their remains are buried in sites throughout Iraq.' ... 01,00.html

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:36 pm)

Check out this perspective below. One very interesting thing to ponder is that we don't see any talk of mass graves anymore in the press. Even though the U.S. is having such a hard time in Iraq the mass grave claims are so tenuous that they can't even attempt to exploit it anymore. ... /full/433/


In the past few months the graves of thousands of civilians have been unearthed in war-torn Iraq. Not surprisingly, the White House has wasted no time in declaring the dead to be prime examples of Saddam Hussein's brutality and a further justification for our invasion.

But a check of the historical record on this matter reveals yet another calculated distortion by the administration and its supporters.

At the end of the 1991 Gulf War legions of Shia radicals - the kind we've seen clamoring for an Islamic state - attacked and killed anyone connected to Iraq's secular government. Urged to "take matters into their own hands" by the first Bush administration and mistakenly believing that Iraq's army had been destroyed, armed militants went from city to city in southern Iraq mercilessly butchering scores of innocents.

As put forth by regional analyst Sandra Mackay: "the rebels utilized their guns and numbers to seize the civilian operatives of the Baath government while former Shia conscripts turned on officers of the army. They hung their captives from rafters of an Islamic school, shot them in the head before walls turned into execution chambers, or simply slit their throats at the point of capture." (The Reckoning: Iraq and the Legacy of Saddam Hussein, p. 24)

Dilip Hiro, another Iraqi historian, documents atrocities in the city of Karbala: "insurgents had attacked the army headquarters and seized weapons....They decapitated or hanged 75 military officials, some of them Shia, and tortured many more." (Desert Shield To Desert Storm: The Second Gulf War, p. 402)

All told, several thousand military personnel, policemen, clerks, and employees of the government were slain, according to Omar Ali, another regional authority. (Crisis in the Arabian Gulf, p. 147)

Meanwhile in northern Iraq, Kurdish separatists were gearing up for their own shot at the regime. As far back as 1961 - seven years before Saddam Hussein came to power - they had been staging violent attacks on Iraq's central government, trying to leverage off a piece of the country and form their own fledgling state.

Accepting Washington's pronouncements about a vanquished Iraqi military, up to 400,000 Kurds undertook a ferocious spree of mayhem that rivaled that of the Shia. According to Mackay, in the city of Kirkuk "no one bothered to count how many servants of Baghdad were shot, beheaded, or cut to shreds with the traditional dagger stuck in the cummerbund of every Kurdish man. By the time Kurdish rage had exhausted itself, piles of corpses lay in the streets awaiting removal by bulldozers." (The Reckoning, p. 26)

This unrestrained carnage, documented by several additional sources, is what the White House (and the media) characterize as "rising up against Saddam."
Unfortunately for the Kurdish and Shia murderers, Iraq's army was far from destroyed. After withdrawing from Kuwait in accordance with U.S. mandates the Republican Guards and other army units regrouped and commenced a methodical campaign to hunt down the assailants and restore order. Using tanks, artillery, mortars, and helicopter gunships, they subdued one city after another.

In the north hundreds of thousands of Kurds took flight to the rocky mountains bordering Iran and Turkey. There they stood, cold and hungry, until the Bush administration began airlifting emergency supplies - a tacit admission of partial responsibility for their plight.

In the south the Shia who fought back were easily overwhelmed and killed, while hundreds more were executed at point of capture, their bodies immediately buried in accordance with Islamic law.

This, then is the primary source of the "mass graves" of Iraq.

What government in the world would refrain from using all necessary means to quell a violent uprising of this kind? No one denies that the regimes response was swift and merciless, or that many innocents were caught up in the retaliation and destruction. But if blame is assigned, shouldn't it start with the instigators of the carnage along with the foreign government who misled them about the forces they were going up against and yet egged them on?

Like claims about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction or Baghdad's links to al Queda, the mass graves of Iraq are another example of history and reality being distorted to fit the ulterior motives of the White House.

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