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Science Over Superstition
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Postby Science Over Superstition » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:07 am)

Interesting idea Tt but not one that is likely to get me my chemistry degree or the approval of my professors - some jewish.

SOS!

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:17 am)

gonzo wrote:I know the Auschwitz Curator let it slip on the Cole Video that 960,000 died...


Did he? The number seems vaguely familar.

The number are fast approaching revisionist numbers


Well, there's only a difference of 820,000.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:53 pm)

Hebden:
Well, there's only a difference of 820,000.

I suggest Hebden read about Fritjof Meyer. Meyer estimated the total number of camp victims at 510,000 (including 356,000 "gassing" victims). This is less than half the 1.1 million victims alleged by Franciszek Piper, Historical Research Department at the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum.

Even those wacky numbers cannot be sustained see:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1298

For comment, please post to that, or any other thread on Meyer.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:57 pm)

Mr. Meyer should be reading about us, and not the other way around.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:35 pm)

Hebden wrote:Mr. Meyer should be reading about us, and not the other way around.

I think that he does. Judging by his articles he seems to be a reader of revisionistic material and is probably a subscriber to Rudolf's magazine VffG.

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Postby comrade seinfeld » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:11 pm)

gonzo wrote:
theTRUTH wrote:"Auschwitz: Inside the Nazi State"

PBS Stations across U.S. (Los Angeles WTTW-Ch. 11)
Wednesday, Jan 19, 27, and Feb 4
9 to 11 pm

Look at your TV schedule.



I taped it and watched the first few minutes only. It didnt take longto catch something.

It says at the beginning that "One million PEOPLE died at Auschwitz."

Their sign said OVER 4,000,000 in 1989
Their sign says 1.5 million at Present
So now they are going to have to change that sign again.

Its widely common for Jews to say 10% of the victims were non jews....so are THEY admitting now that under 900.000 Jews died at Auschwitz?

I know the Auschwitz Curator let it slip on the Cole Video that 960,000 died...
The number are fast approaching revisionist numbers.... yet 6,000,000 stays the same?


The exterminationists have always maintained, when I have inquired, that the six million refers to Jews who died as a result of their ethnic cleansing by the Nazis, whether this was caused through either deliberate alleged murder by one means or another, or through disease as a result of being confined in a concentration camp, or the result of being utilised as slave labour, or any other cause that you like to think of, e.g., premature death through the trauma of ethnic cleansing. Thus, even if it can be shown that there were no homicidal gas chambers, there would still be at least several millions who died as a result of the ethnic cleansing, so that severe capital punishment should have been applied to all the top Nazis -- apart from the token execution of some Nazis said to be involved in an extermination program most escaped severe punishment because both the Communists and anti-Communists wanted to utilise the leading Nazis for their own purposes.


As far the exterminationists still claiming that six million Jews died as a result of the ethnic cleansing, I have seen that Scott (in another forum) say that, although there was no extermination program, there were probably about five million Jews who perished by one means or another -- and I would say that Scott knows more about the "Holocaust" than most people. Also, David Irving, at his recent libel trial, said that probably about something approaching four million perished by one means or another. Of course, as regards the six million claim by the exterminationists, I don't think that the leading exterminationists, such as Hilberg, Van Pelt, Browning, Pressac, etc., are totally dogmatic about the figure, although the various Jewish-Zionist establishment figures, as to be expected, are very dogmatic. The point is, however, is that if it is claimed that, say, only a half-million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz by any exterminationist, they can still mostly correctly claim that several million Jews died by other means, probably adding up to six million -- although that ultimately needs to be confirmed. All of which, I think, should all be beside the point, from a revisionist perspective, which is essentially to demonstrate that there was no Nazi exterminationist program, which can be utilised today in the Zionist cause.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:31 am)

I would be interested on what Scott bases the 5 million number estimate. Just to say so is for me not sufficient. Even my grandmother can do that.
I have an open mind and am willing to listen and learn.

To me Sannings statistical study "The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry" seems to be the most thorough which I have seen, and has as far as I know not been seriously refuted.

Sanning comes up with a total estimate of 600,000 Jewish victims if I remember correctly. And that is good enough for me. His statistical study is quite impressive.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:37 am)

So, I see a retreat from the silly gas chambers claim from seinfeld. He could be arrested in many countries for that.

He tries to claim millions of Jews were murdered anyway, but has no evidence to support his claim.

Without the phoney gas chambers claims and the unsupportable numbers claimed of the einsatzgruppen, what are we left with? In seinfeld's mind we still have millions.

As for Irving, he is hardly knowledgeable on the so 'holocau$t' and readily admits it. He has written no books on it, but has said:
"According to the evidence that I have seen, there were no gas chambers anywhere. The evidence that we have been shown, the aerial photographs, the eyewitnesses, it's all very spurious indeed."

"We were talking yesterday about this bus in Serbia with 90,000 people or 70,000 people being gassed in the space of 35 days. That would have meant 38 people being gassed every hour in each bus. That kind of figure is completely impractical."

"more women died on the back seat of Edward Kennedy's car at Chappaquiddick than ever died in a gas chamber in Auschwitz"

When discussing the so called 'holocaust' in a 1998 speech at Washington State University:
"Eyewitness testimony is really a matter for psychiatric evaluation."

- David Irving


As for Scott, he has no evidence for 5,000,000 and has not presented any. I note that seinfeld gives no quotes from him either.

comrade seinfeld, present some evidence for your belief in 'millions of Jews murdered', if you can. Start a new thread and bring your best shot. I welcome it.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby gonzo » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:12 pm)

Hebden wrote:
gonzo wrote:I know the Auschwitz Curator let it slip on the Cole Video that 960,000 died...


Did he? The number seems vaguely familar.

The number are fast approaching revisionist numbers


Well, there's only a difference of 820,000.


Hebden
yes, he admitted this in the Cole Video. "no more then 960,000 Jews"


>>>>>>>>>>

Seinfeld,
My family fought for Germany in both wars. They were fighting for their country....I have tremendous pride in this. More then you can imagine. My views are in concrete.
World Jewery perhaps should not have declared war against us...You did so in March of 1933. You iniatted a world wide boycott against us...We countered with a ONE DAY boycott on April 1,1933. Considering what your people did to Russia, the Baltics, Poland and Ukraine... We had every right to take action. We took away only some of your civil liberties...I will add liberties taken away from Jews was was much much less severe then that of what American policies were at the same time against blacks and the yellow race.

Jews-Communinists accuse my family of crimes that they did not commit. I once believed everything you jammed down my throat...I carried this shame and guilt, always looking suspiciusly at my uncles and father... I said things to uncles that I cant take back, only because they are dead. You have been caught in so many bold face lies, now the Hollowcause is something I read about everyday. i have a right to be angry.........the "even vun is to many" argument doesnt fly with me.

I speak out in public and virtually everyone believes the 6,000,000 to be an exageration.....I say one step at a time

Seinfeld...How do you explain the gas chambers not being brought up in Elie Wiesels book Night? He is the Holocost's poster boy....yet he does not bring up the Gas chambers?.....
He mentions once in his book about "fumigation" and how there were barrels of this "stuff" and how they were "soaked"' in it. he claimed jews were thrown alive into gigantic pits of fire, while "Menegele wearing his monacle and holding a stick looked on". his words not mine... that sounds like it should come right out of a klassic comic book. yet it is a book on fact

[/img]

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:55 pm)

After now having watched 3 episodes of this latest brainwashing exercise, coinciding roughly with my first major steps into revisionism, it has struck me just how much this documentary is leaving out. It looks like they are aware of how preposterous so much of the orthodox narrative is and are carefully choosing which parts they mention. The trouble is, packaged as well as it is and with the emotional impact it has, it will still be thoroughly believable to most people.

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Postby comrade seinfeld » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:06 pm)

Hannover wrote:So, I see a retreat from the silly gas chambers claim from seinfeld. He could be arrested in many countries for that.

He tries to claim millions of Jews were murdered anyway, but has no evidence to support his claim.

Without the phoney gas chambers claims and the unsupportable numbers claimed of the einsatzgruppen, what are we left with? In seinfeld's mind we still have millions.

As for Irving, he is hardly knowledgeable on the so 'holocau$t' and readily admits it. He has written no books on it, but has said:
"According to the evidence that I have seen, there were no gas chambers anywhere. The evidence that we have been shown, the aerial photographs, the eyewitnesses, it's all very spurious indeed."

"We were talking yesterday about this bus in Serbia with 90,000 people or 70,000 people being gassed in the space of 35 days. That would have meant 38 people being gassed every hour in each bus. That kind of figure is completely impractical."

"more women died on the back seat of Edward Kennedy's car at Chappaquiddick than ever died in a gas chamber in Auschwitz"

When discussing the so called 'holocaust' in a 1998 speech at Washington State University:
"Eyewitness testimony is really a matter for psychiatric evaluation."

- David Irving


As for Scott, he has no evidence for 5,000,000 and has not presented any. I note that seinfeld gives no quotes from him either.

comrade seinfeld, present some evidence for your belief in 'millions of Jews murdered', if you can. Start a new thread and bring your best shot. I welcome it.

- Hannover


At the present time I regard myself as a "Holocaust" agnostic, basically because I find it virtually impossible to get to the bottom concerning any aspect of the "Holocaust" (e.g., the notion that there were homicidal gas chambers at Birkenau) because there is so much ideological obsfucation, mainly coming today from the Zionists, and, I must admit, I am suspicious of what are the motives of those who call themselves revisionists -- as an ex-Stalinist myself I know only too well that one's objective perspective can be distorted by ideology.

I think that in order to have any hope of getting to the bottom of this "Holocaust" business, you would have to dedicate one's life to the subject; however, who is going to pay you to be an objective professional "Holocaust" researcher -- I am inclined to think that many of the exterminationists who post in such places as alt.revisionism must be being paid to do so, presumably on behalf of the Zionists? All my posts are, in fact, designed to elicit information that I would find hard to attain by my own efforts from those who might know something about the subject.

As far as what Hannover said above, all I know is that if you go into, say, any university library you will only find books that more or less assume the exterminationist perspective, and since these books go into great detail about how it was necessarily the case that at least several million Jews perished as a result of the Nazi ethnic cleansing, and since you have to assume that most of these authors are not Zionist pawns, it is very difficult to take seriously Hannover's notion that only a relatively small number of Jews perished by one means or another (presumably less than a million, which he has not definitively established himself), if one is to be taken seriously by educated people. Certainly I take seriously the revisionist perspective, and it would certainly be an intellectual revolution if it could be definitively established, as opposed to the conventional exterminationist perspective; but, on the basis of my present knowledge, I would not be prepared to venture beyond agnostic skepticism concerning the "Holocaust" -- and, if, say, more people were agnostics in this regard, wouldn't that be achieving a political objective in concrete terms, which would probably lead to the end of the juridical persecution of "Holocaust deniers"?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:59 am)

comrade seinfeld said:
As far as what Hannover said above, all I know is that if you go into, say, any university library you will only find books that more or less assume the exterminationist perspective, and since these books go into great detail about how it was necessarily the case that at least several million Jews perished as a result of the Nazi ethnic cleansing, and since you have to assume that most of these authors are not Zionist pawns, it is very difficult to take seriously Hannover's notion that only a relatively small number of Jews perished by one means or another (presumably less than a million, which he has not definitively established himself), if one is to be taken seriously by educated people.

Let's look at exactly what he said:

1. Books exist which go into great detail about 'millions' of Jews supposedly being exterminated.

Oh really? Not one of those books can withstand scrutiny of informed Revisionists, not one ... they have all been shot down ...yes ALL. Take note that seinfeld doesn't even mention them by name, he gives no specifics about what it is that he finds credible in each one.

AND, there are numbers of UFO abduction and witchcraft books which go into "great detail".

2. The authors cannot be assumed to be advocates of Zionist policies.

They in fact are advocates of Zionist policies / great supporters & apologists for that "shitty little country" of Israel's ethnic cleansing.

3. Hannover should provide evidence that less than a million Jews were killed.

There is no evidence for any other conclusion. It's not my responsibility to establish numbers, it is the responsibility of those who make absurd claims of 'millions'. They have no evidence, plain & simple. Note that seinfeld has submitted no specific evidence.

4. Revisionists are somehow not taken seriously by "educated people"?

Says who? We are indeed "educated". Revisionists, myself included, have advanced degrees. Think: Dr. Butz, Master Chemist Germar Rudolf, Professor Dr. Faurisson, Dr. Ingrid Rimland, historian Mark Webber, to name just a few ... the list goes on & on.

Ofcourse, it was an 'educated' class which proclaimed, prosecuted, and demanded belief in witches, an earth centered solar system, a flat earth, sea monsters, AND Ph.D.s have written books supporting claims of alien/UFO abduction.

Anyone who is exposed to science which debunks the 'holocau$t as alleged, and yet still Believes or claims agnosticism, is revealing more about themselves than anything else.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:09 pm)

Sailor wrote:I would be interested on what Scott bases the 5 million number estimate. Just to say so is for me not sufficient. Even my grandmother can do that. I have an open mind and am willing to listen and learn.

Sorry, I missed this before. I don't estimate 5 million. I don't know. I just don't quibble with Hilberg's 5.1 million figure because I'm not an expert on demographic problems--although I surely do not trust Hilberg's methodology.

Yad Vashem says they have about 3 million names, or half of the six-million Jews they claim died.

Curiously, if you add the numbers that were supposed to have been killed at all the Death Camps you have about 3 million. If the homicidal gassings are bogus then you are still left with three million names to explain.

I don't think it is a stretch to imagine that at least three million died from various causes except gassings, so my guestimate for the number could reasonably be anywhere from 3 million to 5 million. It's not something that I worry about.

Since the former Soviet Union has opened up, I am skeptical of Sanning's theory that 2 million Jews escaped the Nazis into the Soviet Union, unless they were in turn deported to Soviet labor camps or something and did not survive.

:D

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:10 pm)

Scott curiously said:
Yad Vashem says they have about 3 million names, or half of the six-million Jews they claim died.

Curiously, if you add the numbers that were supposed to have been killed at all the Death Camps you have about 3 million. If the homicidal gassings are bogus then you are still left with three million names to explain.

I don't think it is a stretch to imagine that at least three million died from various causes except gassings, so my guestimate for the number could reasonably be anywhere from 3 million to 5 million. It's not something that I worry about.

Since the former Soviet Union has opened up, I am skeptical of Sanning's theory that 2 million Jews escaped the Nazis into the Soviet Union, unless they were in turn deported to Soviet labor camps or something and did not survive.

How can anyone use Yad Vashem's list as a basis for determining the number of Jews who supposedly died? Talk about lack of methodology, Yad Vashem's "list" is a sham; i.e.:
http://fpp.co.uk/Letters/Auschwitz/Romanov_131204.html

Scott then says Revisionist have to "explain three million" alleged missing Jews which are a result of subtracting bogus gas chambers claims from the alleged '6,000,000' when there is no evidence that the 6,000,000 number is remotely correct, or that 3,000,000 Jews were killed.

Then with no substantiation, he tries to refute Sanning.

Logic? Not quite.

Playing 'holocaust light' may be a way to placate the Andy Mathis' that he associates with, but it won't cut it here. What Scott needs is evidence, plain & simple.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby gasto » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:35 pm)

but, if I recall correctly...6 million figure was used since Nuremberg trials as the official number, and of those 6m, 4 million were exterminated at Auschwitz....but then in the 90´s, the auschwitz death toll was lowered to 1.1 million....

so, 6 million - 3.9 million = 2.1 million...and if we substract the other camps numbers (eg. treblinka: 800,000, etc..), let´s put this number at 1.5 million, we have a total of 0.6 million dead jews unexplained...

am I wrong??
If Human Soap rumour was fake, why can´t all the other absurd claims be too??


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