Changing the holocaust story to counter-act revisionists

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Carto's Cutlass Supreme
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Changing the holocaust story to counter-act revisionists

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:36 pm)

This was a response to the Kula columns thread but it veered into it's own topic

I'd never heard of these kula columns until lately.

Holocaust historians always have this attitude of "don't bother even talking about those revisionists." But they are watching us very closely. Subsequent books that come out change the story, based on what revisionists are charging.

An example: in Deborah Dwork's book "Voices and Views" On Pg 389, there is a picture of the gas chamber or an illustration--I can't remember. The caption for that picture mentions that the bodies heated the room. That's in direct response to revisionists saying that Zyklon B wouldn't work well in the cold.

I think we'll see/ are seeing more emphasis on the einsatzgruppen, because other things are being debunked.

It might be that it's lucky that there wasn't a strong revisionist movement in the past because the holocaust historians published books on "what's out there." That makes it more difficult for the Israeli government or Zionist organizations to rewrite the lie by planting fake old documents.

It could be that comparing Raul Hilberg's 1961, 1989, 2003 editions of Destruction of the European Jews will be evidence of the fraud in and of itself. --Did you know that in the 2003 edition he apparently says that the Nazis found that open air burning of bodies works better than crematoriums? Again, that's in direct response to revisionists. So I heard in a review of the book. I'll bet the 1961 edition of Hilberg is really outlandish.

What other historical period changes like that!

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Postby theTRUTH » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:18 pm)

In Wednesday's first of 3 part 2-hour morbid Auschwitz docu-drama, the story changed to conform with Revisionist scientific research:

(1) "Close to the cremtion buildings, all the SS walked around wearing gas-masks", which is a change from 1945 to '96 'eye-witness' testimony which mentioned no gas-masks worn by prisoners walking into the 'gas-chambers' to pull out bodies.

(2) "Zyklon-B crystals killed people in 15 to 20 minutes", which is a change from in 1 to 3 minutes everyone died, as claimed up to 2002. Chemistry proves that at 10 degrees Celcius (50 Fahrenheit),
everyone including kids would still be healthy in 20 hours.

Posters should watch the next 2 Wednesday segments to look for other changes. Remember, the reason police question suspected criminals many times over days or weeks is to see if their story changes, which indicates deceit.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:07 pm)

Hi TheTruth:

Those are very good points. Thanks.

However, I'm sure point #2 is wrong. The zyklon would have evaporated completely in 20 hours for sure.

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Postby Science Over Superstition » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:18 am)

That's an interesting question. It depends on a bunch of things like how hot the room was, how damp the room was, how much cynaide was in the room, how many people were in the room and so on. When they used the stuff for delousing they had to wait 24 hours to come back into the rooms so 20 hours would probably be a safe wait.

There's no way to know for sure how long the stuff took to evaporate though because we don't know any of the variables above. If it happened in the first place. Rudolph's data looks solid anyway.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:44 pm)

If an SS guy would have thrown Zyklon B pieces through the non existing holes the Zyklon B pieces would have rested on the floor of the "gas chamber". So the speed of release of the HCN is determined mainly by the temperature of the floor, not of the room temperature.

The room temperature may increase if there are a lot of people in the room and that may influence the diffusion rate from the pieces into the room. But the floor temperature does not change a lot.

You can check that by walking barefoot on a stone floor in winter in a room even if it is well heated.

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Postby Science Over Superstition » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:07 pm)

That's a good piont and not knowing the size of the 'gas chambers' I would have to guess they were not large enough so that even if they were extremely crowded they would have heated the floor. Hot air rises, whether they like it or not.

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Postby Petschau » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:40 pm)

From David Irvings site
http://www.fpp.co.uk/HNet/ZyklonABC.html

There were only two variants of the commercial product Zyklon, A and B, and the variation was in the method of delivery of the HCN gas.

Zyklon-A consisted of HCN in liquid form, and was designed for spraying onto fruit trees to kill insect pests. For this purpose each tree was enclosed in a tent, to maintain the concentration of HCN in the air surrounding the tree for a sufficient time to kill the pests.

Zyklon-B consisted of HCN adsorbed into a carrier, typically a form of gravel, or a round piece of cardboard, which released the gas when exposed to the air. It was designed for delousing the inside of buildings, and its main advantage was that it released the HCN gradually, thereby reducing the risk to the handlers.


More on Zyklon...
Quoted from the Leuchter cross-examintaion
http://www.ety.com/HRP/rev/leuchter/leu ... ssexam.htm
Liquid HCN burns like alcohol. Gaseous HCN forms an explosive mixture with air under certain conditions. The lower explosion limit, however, lies far above the concentration used in practical fumigation work.

The Crown questioned Leuchter's opinion concerning the possibility of an explosion when the crematories were so far away. Leuchter replied that at the Zyklon B material, when the gas was given off, there was a percentage per volume of air of 90 to 100 percent. This meant there was almost pure hydrogen cyanide at the carrier. A spark could set it off. (32-9250 to 9253)



Therefore, if quick extermination was the intent, Zyklon A would have been a far more suitable means than Zyklon B.
It would have been much faster acting, and less explosive.
In addition, the Nazi's could have purchased Zyklon A without raising any suspicion.

Now a point about the selection process.
Everyone has heard the stories about Mengele and other doctors standing at the platform indicating "left" or "right" to the incoming prisoners.
They were first stripped of their clothing and could carry nothing with them.
Those sent to the "left" were claimed to have been sent immediately to the gas chamber, whereas those to the "right" were taken into the adminstration building for processing as Primo Levi indicated in Survival In Auschwitz.

Text below is excerpted from http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Ausc ... irths.html

SS Dr. Eduard Wirths came to Auschwitz in September 1942 as "Standortarzt". Thus, he was the highest-ranking SS-doctor in Auschwitz. He commanded the other physicians to the ramp in a hierarchical principle in order to let them pursue selections there.

He himself regularly attended these selections to encourage discipline and the way the doctors saw their own work. Wirths was part of the department D III "FŸr SanitŠtswesen und Lagerhygiene" in the Office of Economic Policy in Berlin (WVHA), a department that was chaired by the physician Enno Lolling since 1942. But Wirths was also subordinate to the commander of Auschwitz, with whom he had to cooperate in the "Daily business".

Wirths enforced that only SS-doctors were able to select prisoners. Thus, Wirths not only controlled the selection, but became the organizer-in-chief.


So if the stories were true about selection based on fitness to work, why have a doctor making the choice when a lowly SS guard could just as easily see if someone looked healthy or not?
It wasn't as if the doctor gave them a physical or anything.
What was the doctor looking for?

My guess...
Typhus, pneumonia, and tuberculosis-each of which was rampant among the refugee populations, primarily from the east.
Each is also highly contageous.

Here are some of the most telling outward symptoms
Fever
Chills
Stupor
Swollen lymph nodes
Skin rash on the chest spreading to the body
Bloodshot eyes

A doctor would quickly recognize these symptoms whereas a guard would not.

Inwardly, severe respiratory problems would be the norm with tuberculosis and pneumonia, and sometimes typhus. No doubt, the disinfection process exacerbated the breathing difficulty to the point that many probably died in the chamber, thereby giving rise to the stories that people were being gassed to death.

I imagine that those who were symptomatic of any of the above would be sent through "disinfection" for lice just to insure that those with typhus did not bring the bug into the main camp.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:06 pm)

The room temperature may increase if there are a lot of people in the room and that may influence the diffusion rate from the pieces into the room. But the floor temperature does not change a lot.

You can check that by walking barefoot on a stone floor in winter in a room even if it is well heated.


This is perfectly correct Claudia. All new houses that are built nowadays in most countries of Europe have to have 2" (50mm) of extruded polystyrene laid under the floor slab, they also have to have polystyrene running continuously around the periphery of the slab, so as to stop thermal bridging.

And as Claudia suggests, even if the room is heated, it has very little bearing on the temperature of the slab, because obviously heat rises! In a modern well insulated house the slab will warm up over time. But in the case of these uninsulated half submerged hovels, that the morgues are, they would have been absolutely bitter for a great many months of the year.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:31 pm)

Petschau, that was excellent information. I am suprised Zyklon A wasn't been mentioned before, or if it has, more often.
I'm not sure what you mean though about dying in the chamber during the disinfection process. What process was this?

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:50 pm)

Michael Mills wrote:Zyklon-A consisted of HCN in liquid form, and was designed for spraying onto fruit trees to kill insect pests. For this purpose each tree was enclosed in a tent, to maintain the concentration of HCN in the air surrounding the tree for a sufficient time to kill the pests.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/HNet/ZyklonABC.html


Actually, Mr. Mills is incorrect on this point.

Zyklon-A was methyl cyanoformate NOT liquid HCN, which is highly unstable and must be bottled with a preservative to prevent spontaneous combustion.

During WWI cyanide gas was "generated" for fumigation by dissolving a cyanide salt into sulfuric acid, the same method as employed in American execution gas chambers.

F.P. Berg explains:

Some readers may object to the claim that Zyklon-B was an abbreviation for Zyklon-Blausaure. Although the "B" may have originally been intended merely to reflect a sequential numbering of another "Zyklon" product since there had been a Zyklon-A until about 1920 and even a Zyklon-C for a brief period, by at least the beginning of World War II the German literature used the terms "Zyklon," "Zyklon-B" and "Zyklon-Blausaure" interchangeably. The longest form was used least often and generally only at the beginning of a piece of text in order to identify clearly the principle ingredient. The fact that Zyklon-B and Zyklon-Blausaure are synonymous is also shown by the fact that in German both terms are almost always hyphenated.

http://fpberg.yourforum.org/archive/16.html#ftnref26

And chemist William Lindsay identifies Zyklon-A:

There was also a "Zyklon A." Chemically, it was methyl cyanoformate. It also was highly toxic and was a good fumigating agent, but since it was potentially useful as a war gas and as a chemical intermediate for war gases, Germany was forbidden by the Treaty of Versailles to manufacture it. It could have anyway, but didn't.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p261_Lindsey.html
So to clarify Mr. Mills' point, Zyklon-A is indeed a cyanide product in liquid form but not HCN or prussic acid in liquid form.

Hope that helps.

:D

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Postby Petschau » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:10 pm)

Richard Perle wrote:Petschau, that was excellent information. I am suprised Zyklon A wasn't been mentioned before, or if it has, more often.
I'm not sure what you mean though about dying in the chamber during the disinfection process. What process was this?


What I have read, but Mr. Berg does not allude to below is the fact that the delousing stations had "dusting rooms" whereby the prisoners were dusted with a DDT-like powder to kill any lice that had taken hold on the body.
I don't know the chemicals used by the Nazis but the Allies did use DDT when they took over. In either case, breathing this would have exascerbated the effects of any respiratory compromise the prisoner already had and probably led to many deaths.

Excerpted from America at Dachau
Two DDT teams arrived; several personnel among them, whom were Lt. Patterson who became adjutant, sad Maj. Louis A. Nolfo supply officer. Two Evacuation Hospitals had been assigned and were already on the field preparing for their task. The senior officer, Col. A. L. Bradford of the 127th Evac, was appointed camp surgeon in addition to his other duties.

An immediate and strict quarantine had been clamped down on all personnel in the camp, Including the members of the hospital staffs, by order of Lt. Gen. Patch on May 2nd. Four companies of guards arrived and were almost Immediately relieved by members of the 72nd AAA. DDT and inoculation was the order of the day, and no one was permitted to enter or leave the area without proper passes and dusting. It almost became monotonous for numbers who had to go in and out several times a day.

The entire compound area including the barracks and personnel was given a thorough dusting by the DDT team. This in itself was no small job and represented a good share of the necessary work in the prevention and the spread of typhus and other louse borne diseases. It is estimated that the first dusting required approximately 1½ tons of DDT powder.



From F.P. Berg's Typhus and the Jews

Basically, each transit camp or Durchgangslager was divided into a "clean" zone and a "dirty" zone with a strictly enforced barrier between the two zones. A delousing station straddled the boundary between the two zones at some point. Each camp was arranged so that new arrivals could only enter the "dirty" zone.

To get over to the "clean" zone, they had to pass through the delousing station. Inside the delousing station, each person had to remove all of their clothing and belongings which would then be fumigated with cyanide, or steamed, or else heated with hot air while they took a shower and underwent a thorough medical examination which might include X-rays to determine -- their state of health and whether or not they had any contagious diseases such as typhus and tuberculosis.

If they failed to pass the exam, they might be sent back to wherever they had come from originally or they might simply be kept in a quarantine area for several weeks. If they passed, they would eventually be sent on, usually to another camp and put to work.

Some additional details for handling people riding the trains in Eastern Europe were given by a German doctor:

The large delousing facilities worked in the last years according to the following principle: The train arrives at the unclean side of the railroad station. All passengers then give their baggage on the unclean side to the baggage handlers. They are then led into the unclean changing rooms where specially constructed iron clothes hangers and linen sacks which can be boiled with valuables and flammable objects are available.

After giving up the clothes hangers with their clothing, they each each receive a control token. Now they go with their boots and the sack with valuables to a short medical examination, for the sorting out (Selection) of persons sick with infection, and after receiving a handtowel and soap to the showers. Here even the boots are disinfected with 5% creosol soap solution.

After showering, one receives a linen suit. In the dressing room of the clean side, they wait for the calling of their control token number and then the deloused clothing is put on again. Upon leaving the delousing facility one receives a certificate and can then, after picking up one's baggage on the clean side of the baggage area, get on to the train which is waiting on the clean side of the railroad station for continuation of the trip.

The entire facility is so constructed that it is impossible to go directly from an arriving train into a departing train without passing through the delousing facility. In all rooms of the facility there are, of course, medical personnel who, among other things, see to it that all flammable objects are taken out of the pockets and that all pieces of clothing and pockets are turned inside out before being hung on the hangers.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:25 pm)

Besides the Zyklon-B 'gas chambers' nonsense, there is the attempted 'holocau$t' Industry switch from diesel gassings claims (which Revisionists have utterly demolished) to gasoline.

The problem is that the cat's out of the bag. The liars have been hoisted by their own petard. Have look.

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=53

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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