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Carto's Cutlass Supreme
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Need help with an outline for project

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:56 pm)

I'm developing an outline for either a webpage or an internet video on explaining revisionism to new people. The focus is not on debating revisionism, but how to teach it. What would "grab" people new to revisionism, or people who have always accepted the holocaust story? Suppose you had a half hour of someone's time. What would you tell them? Would you be so into the minutiae of details that the average person wouldn't know what you were talking about?

Here's the outline. Be as critical as you want. Also I've put the order as what I think is the most persuasive to least persuasive. I'd be interested in your input on that too, or if there's other topics I've not mentioned. --Thanks!

1. Important eyewitness testimonies are not believable.
•Yankel Wernik
•Fred Kort
•Elie Wiesel
•Time Magazine article on Mengele
•Revforum threads

2. Method used to release Zyklon B gas at Auschwitz is not believable.
•throwing pellets from hole in roof
•World at War episode 20
•Revforum threads

3. Nuremberg Trials: Evidence from the "Stalin Purges" people.
•Ridiculous evidence
•Accusations that no one believes today
•Movie: Judgment at Nuremberg (1961)
•Revforum threads

4. Treblinka death camp details are not believable.
•Digging up a 900,000 person grave for outdoor cremation
•Yankel Wernik, Kurt Gurstein testimonies
•Revforum threads

5. Why are the "Stalin Purges" and the Holocaust handled so differently? Is it about psychological manipulation rather than real history?
•Hollywood movie portrayals, newspapers, t.v.

6. Death by diesel exhaust isn't believable. Neither would the Nazis have used a gasoline motor to produce carbon monoxide (CO) gas. There are better and easier ways to produce CO. A gasoline engine only gives off CO as a by-product.
•Berg articles at IHR

7. Auschwitz evidence has other explanations: A look at testimony, piles of hair, piles of glasses, the gas chamber etc.
•Soviet bogus evidence
•Bodies from starvation at typhus
•Pile of hair possibly for L-cysteine protein
•Piles of glasses might number in thousands, not millions
•Fake gas chamber
•Plaque with wrong information.

8. What they say about the Palestinians puts to question their integrity about the holocaust. A look at where we get our holocaust info.
•Simon Wiesenthal website
•Hillel website

9. Residue (or lack of) found on the walls at Auschwitz.
•Wall Street Journal editorial
•Rudolf Report

10. Why wasn't a comprehensive list of the victims ever produced in the first 50 years after it happened?
•Wendy Campbell article at ... mpbell.htm

11. Drama of survivor stories is more like a Hollywood script and less like reality.
•From revforum thread

12. The sheer size (6 million deaths) without a paper trail, isn't believable.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:25 pm)

Good idea. The ability to get across a strongly argued revisionist 'lesson' is vitally important.

Two things which you missed that I feel are important are:

1. Evidence that goes against the popular view of Auschwitz (and other camps) as a place of death and misery. (The swimming pool, theater, etc) and the orders from Himmler to lower death rate. All of the things that show that extermination wasn't the intention and wouldn't have been accepted.

2. Perhaps the most important issue of all would be an explanation of how and why so many historians believe the myths. I think that this is the biggest obstacle for most people, as the idea that all these respected historians could be wrong is too much for most people to take.

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Postby jemand » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:55 pm)

You should probably "start out slow" by first telling them about the bizarre exaggerations, the ever-changing victim numbers, the prosecution of dissidents in Europe and the U.S. and the guilt-tripping (If you have that in the States). That might make your listeners / readers sympathetic to what you have to say. Only then would you go on to introduce them to the harder-to-believe things such as that the gas chambers never existed etc.

Also, if possible, include scans or copies of the official sources you are quoting. Like when you say that in 1938 there were 15 million jews and in 1948 it was still 15 million, be sure to show the actual pages from the World Almanac that give these numbers. Maybe that's not a good example because the 1948 World Almanac is probably hard to get a hand on, but my point is that since revisionism is a very difficult subject to introduce people to, you want to put undeniable facts right in front of their faces rather than just quoting some old book that nobody is going to bother buying just to verify your statement.

I think "Die verbotene Wahrheit" ( is a good introduction, but it doesn't seem to be available in English.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:56 pm)

Add to that list:

- Choice given to inmates of Auschwitz to stay & wait for the communists or retreat with the SS, thousands went with the SS; those left behind were not executed to prevent them from 'talking', they were all ages, many in perfect health

- Russian photos of healthy inmates of all ages at Auschwitz upon 'liberation'

- Jewish births at Auschwitz and other 'extermination camps'

- medical facilities at Auschwitz and other sites for Jews of all ages; but we're told they were gassed if they couldn't work

- so many so called 'survivors'

- no huge mass graves as alleged

- tons of inmates released from Auschwitz

- The fact that many countries now arrest & imprison anyone who scrutinizes the story as it is alleged, only lies need that behaviour ... afterall, what are they afraid of?

More later.

If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:42 pm)

Thanks you guys. Keep them coming.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:07 pm)

I was thinking about this thread last night whilst attempting to sleep. Revisionists need a website with which to get their point across. IHR and VHO are great places to find articles but they are practically useless as a means of teaching people who are in most cases hostile to being taught.
Germar Rudolf's homepage has become my favourite revisionist site because of its layout. You have the story of his persecution as well as his biography and qualifications, but most importantly you have Dissecting The Holocaust available in its component pieces. I think we can do better, though. We must cater to the lowest common denominator with our own narrative of events presented in an attractive way with the minimum amount of clicks needed to locate answers to questions that any visitor might have. We need a glossy and professional website with a uniform style. There must be some first-class web designers available to us.

I put great importance in how the extermination myths have almost completely died (at least in scholarly circles; the public are still largely ignorant on this issue) where the western camps are concerned. I envision a map of central/eastern Europe with a bold iron curtain running across the middle. Each camp is marked and named and is clickable for more information. The camps are colour-coded to mark which camps were at one time alleged to be extermination camps, which camps are still said to be extermination camps and which camps, if any, were never supposed to have been places of extermination.
Clicking on each camp brings you to a thorough examination of what the camp was claimed to be at one time and what myths still remain in circulation today. There would be a breakdown of the eyewitness stories related to that camp, listed in two(?) columns: one for claims that are no longer given any attention and one for claims that support what is still said about that particular camp. Other statistics and important information would also be available in a simple table form with more in-depth essays and such things listed for those visitors who want them.

Importantly, each eyewitness claim for each camp would be clickable and would take you to a database of all witness claims where they can be examined. They would be listed based on where the claims stand today. Perhaps colour-coded. It should be stressed that just because a claim isn't overly imaginative and doesn't overreach the current holocaust legend doesn't make it a valid claim. The whole site should be inter-connected so that where one witness/claim/etc. ties in somewhere else the connection can be seen.

A thorough database of orthodox holocaust literature could be given with the witnesses cited in each book clickable through to the database, so it can be seen what kind of liars are used by these books that everybody fawns over. We can also show how these works are the basis for the holocaust being so widely believed even within academia. I'm sure there are psychologists out there who could write persuasive arguments for why and how a hoax can be so widely believed, giving visitors who are skeptical that such a giant hoax could be kept going pause for thought.

Another important issue would be the stories of people being told that they are to be gassed only to be showered and deloused. These would fit nicely with the other numerous stories of people being seen undressing for the gas chambers. It can be shown how the myths were seen from both the rumour-makers and the frightened new arrivals. This is important to our narrative and would also illustrate how not all witnesses are liars, they are just mistaken. Many people saw what they may or may not have thought were people on their way to a gas chamber at the time, and 60 years worth of increasing media hype have only strengthened those misconceptions.

Which is another important factor. We must be gracious and sympathetic throughout. Many people did die and our tone must not be mocking or littered with invectives.

And naturally all of the other evidence - the Rudolf report, the air photos, etc. would be featured. Everything we need is out there, it is just the techniques for getting it across to believers which are in need of work, and badly.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:21 pm)

You might have a look at Juergen Graf's Revisionist basics.
text here:
comments here:

- Hannover




Holocaust beliefs since 1945

Compared to the Holocaust, all other "Nazi crimes" pale into insignificance!

"The 3 million non-Jewish Poles"

"The 500,000 gypsies"

Medical experiments on human beings


The Holocaust as a religion

Why nearly everybody believes in the Holocaust



Founding of the state of Israel and the violation of the rights of Palestinians

Immunity of Jews from criticism

Covering up Allied atrocities in WW II

Creating contempt for the German people

Rendering impossible all objective discussion of National Socialism

Creating contempt for all forms of nationalism except for Jewish nationalism



The claims of the revisionists

A former concentration camp inmate as revisionist pioneer: Paul Rassinier

The media campaign against revisionism

State prosecutors and judges as watch dogs for the official version of history

The Waterloo of the official version of history



What really happened?

Up to 1941: The Reichs government demands Jewish emigration

After 1941: The mass deportation into camps and ghettos

The death rate in the camps and its causes

The shootings on the Eastern front



The number of Auschwitz victims

"Soap of human fat"

Potpourri of Nazi extermination methods

a) pneumatic hammers

b) electric baths

c) electrical assembly line killing

d) atomic bombs

e) burning alive

f) steam chambers

g) suffocation by pumping all the air out of the death chambers

h) quicklime trains

i) chambers with submergible, electrified flooring

j) blood poisoning

k) drowning

l) chlorine gas, assembly-line shootings, boiling water, acid

The location of the gas chambers

Phase I (from 1946: almost every camp had one or more gas chamber(s)

Phase II (from August 1960): no gas chambers in the Old Reich

Phase III (from 1983): Return of the gas chambers in the West

The gas chambers existed; oh no, they didn't; oh yes, they did



Claims made by standard literature

a) The extermination programme

b) Implementation of the execution programme

c) The secrecy of the extermination programme

d) The six "extermination camps"

e) The murder weapon

f) The number of victims and operating periods of the "extermination camps"

g) The destruction of the corpses



Are the claims made by standard literature believable?



Raul Hilberg, Danuta Czech, Jean-Claude Pressac: Three "experts" dip into their bag of tricks

a) Professor Hilberg scrpes the bottom of the barrel for proof, but finds none

b) How Danuta Czech's Calendarium came to her conclusions as to the number of the gassed

c) Jean-Claude Pressac's "criminal traces"

"The Germans destroyed all the documents"

Conjuring up "proof"

Falsified documents

a) The Wannsee-Protocoll

b) The document of 28 June 1943 on the capacity of the crematoria of Auschwitz

Documents of dubious authenticity

a) The Goebbels-Diary passages of 27 March 1942

b) The two Himmler speeches of October 1943

c) The business letter relating to the ordering of "gas testers"

Undoubtedly genuine but falsely interpreted documents

a) The passage on the "Hebraic Race Perverters" from Mein Kampf

b) Documents on the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question"

c) Documents on "Special Actions", etc.

d) The Korrherr Report: masterpiece of misinterpretation

Documents which contradict the extermination theory



A few of the technical and scientific impossibilities in the eyewitness reports

a) Blue vapour floating over the bodies of the victims

b) Bluish discoloration of the bodies

c) Impossibly large numbers of people per square metre crammed together in the gas chambers

d) Flames shooting out of the chimneys

e) Impossibly great numbers of bodies per muffle in the crematory ovens

f) Cremation of bodies without fuel

g) Burning of bodies in ditches

h) Use of human fat flowing down off the bodies as fuel during cremations

i) Use of methanol as fuel

Four central impossibilities of the eyewitness testimonies

a) Impossibly short cremation times per corpse

b) Introduction of Zyklon B through non-existent openings

c) Opening the gas chamber doors and removing the bodies after impossibly short ventilation times

d) Removal of bodies without gas masks

e) Sonderkommandos working in clouds of cyanide gas



How the eyewitness reports were coordinated

How the courts faked "evidence" of the Holocaust

A perfect example: Dr J.P. Kremer

The Father of the Auschwitz Lie

The "murder weapon" Zyklon B: refutation of the lie



The Leuchter report

The Rudolf Report

Carlo Mattogno and Franco Deana: the crematoria

John Ball and the air-photo evidence



Preliminary remarks






The scientific studies

a) Friedrich Paul Berg's study of the "murder weapon"

b) Arnulf Neumaier's study of the cremations

What were the "pure extermination camps" really?



"A pure product of fantasy"

The Einsatzgruppen and the "Massacre of Babi Yar"



"A unique mass murder"

A stroll through the "free press" of the world

A few examples

Elie Wiesel's miraculous escapes

How Jewish Holocaust "survivors" cheated death



The origins of the mythical Six Million figure

Wolfgang Benz and Walter Sanning

Carl Nording's research

The exemplary case of one "gassing victim": Jenny Spritzer

300,000 "Holocaust survivors" in Israel in 1996

Questions still open





The Revenge of the Centaur

The refusal of the exterminationists to retreat one single inch

The Garaudy case

The confession of an orthodox historian

Korzec and Goldhagen: a new version of the lie

The evolution of the Holocaust Lie: A summary




If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:38 pm)

That's pretty darn good, although I think we can do better.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:04 pm)

also, 'Dissecting the Holocaust, The Growing Critique of 'Truth' and 'Memory':

provides a section by section approach.

- H.

Preface (pp. 7-12) (29 KB)

The Controversy about the Extermination of the Jews · An Introduction (pp. 13-60) (248 KB)

The Case of Walter Lüftl · Contemporary History and the Justice System (pp. 61-84) (106 KB)

The Value of Testimony and Confessions Concerning the Holocaust (pp. 85-131) (260 KB)

Witnesses to the Gas Chambers of Auschwitz (pp. 133-144) (57 KB)

The German Justice System: A Case Study (pp. 145-179) (149 KB)

Holocaust Victims: A Statistical Analysis · W. Benz and W. N. Sanning - A Comparison (pp. 181-213) (208 KB)

The Wannsee Conference Protocol: Anatomy of a Fabrication
(from the German original, not included in Dissecting the Holocaust) (57K)

The Gas Vans: A Critical Assessment of the Evidence (pp. 215-241) (120 KB)

Do Photographs Prove the NS Extermination of the Jews? (pp. 243-267) (100 KB)

Air Photo Evidence (pp. 269-282)
(49 KB)

National Socialist Concentration Camps: Legend and Reality (pp. 283-309) (134 KB)

'Extermination' Camp Propaganda Myths
(from the first edition of this book)
(115 KB)

Some Details of the Central Construction Office of Auschwitz (pp. 311-336) (104 KB)

Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the 'Gas (pp. 337-372) Chambers' of Auschwitz and Birkenau
(185 KB)
Color Section (from the first edition of this book, included in above html file)

The Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau (pp. 373-412) (221 KB)

The Gas Chambers of Majdanek (pp. 413-434) (99 KB)

The Diesel Gas Chambers: Ideal for Torture - Absurd for Murder (pp. 435-469)
(175 KB)

The Treblinka Holocaust (pp. 471-500)
(143 KB)

Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments (pp. 501-528) (122 KB)

Reprisals and Orders From Higher Up (pp. 529-555) (139 KB)

Wood Preservation Through Fumigation With Hydrogen Cyanide: Blue Discoloration of Lime- and Cement-Based Interior Plaster (pp. 557-561) (23 KB)

Grundlagen zur Zeitgeschichte (Foundations of Contemporary History): Expert Report about this Book (pp. 563-566) (16 KB)

Censorship in Germany? Never! Unless... (pp. 567-577) (61 KB)

A Brief History of Holocaust Revisionism (pp. 579-581) (15 KB)
Bibliography (pp. 583-600) (95 KB)
Index (71 KB)

Caveat Emptor! (from the first edition of this book) (8 KB)

(from the German original, not included in Dissecting the Holocaust
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:25 pm)

Hey Richard Perle,

I like that vision! What really got me was the idea for a breakdown of what was once believed and what is believed now. That is powerful. They click on Dachau, and have what was once believed and what is believed now. Yet, there on "Dachau" are the eyewitness affidavits to the gassings! I like the database element tying to the uniformity of where the links on the screen would be to each place. Like whichever camp you click on, there is uniformity to where the links to, say, witnesses are.

I like your idea for the iron curtain map and the camps which are clickable, and I also like your idea of being gracious and sympathetic. Most people believe that if they didn't believe in the holocaust story, they would then be in favor of a holocaust. Which is really non sequitur ridiculous.

I think it would be good, but I'm not sure what would be better: a great website or a great video. Would people who completely believe in the holocaust want to extensively navigate a website? Maybe no. But would people who have a slight questioning of the holocaust want to extensively navigate a website? Maybe yes.

For some reason, regarding the emphasis on the website on how things change, it made me think of the "Operation Reinhard Death Camps" named after Reinhard Heydrich. Faurisson had this to say. My emphasis in bold. I actually laughed when I read this because I realized how ridiculous the name "Operation Reinhard" was:

Christie asked Faurisson if there was an operation called 'Reinhard'. "There was an 'Operation Reinhard'," replied Faurisson, "which is most of the time spelled R-E-I-N-H-A-R-D. But this is a complicated problem. Since 1985, an exterminationist historian...Uwe Dietrich a footnote of a communication he gave at the colloquia of the Sorbonne in 1982, said that maybe it shouldn't be Reinhard spelled like that, but at the end "dt" and you would think that it's nit-picking, no, it's important because usually we are told Operation Reinhard is a criminal operation, it's an operation to exterminate the people in the name of Reinhard Heydrich....And Uwe Dietrich Adam said probably not. First of all, it would be strange to call an operation by the first name of a man, any man, as an 'Operation Adolf' or 'Operation Joseph' for Joseph Goebbels. No, it seems it is the name of the minister of finances and that it is essentially an operation of recuperation of goods of people expelled, of course, from Poland, for instance, but I think that we have no right to put like in this book called National Socialist Mass Murder by Poison Gas...a chapter called Operation Reinhard with a 'd', meaning...extermination.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:26 pm)

A video would be great too. We need both! I don't think anything is more persuasive than a video. But the industry with its budget for 'reconstructions' and access to 'eyewitnesses' from both sides have more to work with to create a potent film, and of course have done so.
A 45 minute long documetary such as the recent BBC effort (per episode) actually fits in far less information than you could absorb by reading during the same amount of time, but it has the visual impact which words don't have. Most revisionist arguments are based on written word (unless you can visit the camps and film there) and I'm not sure how engaging the film would be or how much you could get across within the time constraints. You could get the most charismatic person available to present it but ultimately he would just be reading to the camera for the most part.

So I think a graphic website would be the best of both worlds. I'm not talking about going overboard with shockwave movies embedded everywhere, but something ultra-glossy which really engages the visitor.

Hmmm, shockwave. Perhaps a shockwave movie would be a good idea.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:47 pm)

One of the strongest pieces of revisionist evidence is Rudolf's photo of the alleged gas chamber door at Birkenau. The picture shows a flimsy toolshed-type door with a thin set of glass windows in its top portion. The door also opens inward (meaning alleged piles of gassed victims would prevent the door from being opened).

In my debates with rabid believers on the internet I found this to be one of the most undeniable revisionist facts. They avoided it like a vampire avoids daylight. Soon after my posts were attacked with vandalistic material (without any intervention by the moderator) then I was banned without explanation.

Rudolf includes a photo of this door in his book. The photo instantly exposes the claim that this room was one of Birkenau's infamously productive gas chambers. Any person could easily punch through the door itself or the glass panels. The door is thin like a toolshed door and has an open keyhole. This door allegedly belonged to a gas chamber claimed to have killed thousands. All part of the Birkenau total...

Of course pointing this out is now considered participating in White Supremicism (never an extradictable offense before) and subject to harsh legal action...

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:50 pm)

A section with the exposed hoax holocaust literature, complete with images of the book covers and news articles about the hoax, would be great, too.

And regarding the Nazi 'eyewitnesses' such as Oskar Groening. It would be a good tactic to point out how after any high-profile crime the police are often swamped with people confessing. The police will often hold back details of the crime to trick these confessors to rule them out as real perpetrators. It's hardly likely that the most high-profile crime in history wouldn't have it's share of these such confessors. Examples of crimes where this happened could be used with choice quotes from police officers talking about this phenomena.

In fact, I just found some text worthy of it's own thread.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:32 pm)

This site has the kind of presentation that we need for a revisionist site.

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:50 pm)

I'm probably going to repeat a few things that others have said here, but in order to do this properly there must be some solid ground rules.

- Presentation. If we are to collate an encyclopaedic collection of revisonist arguments and place them online, we must think about how it looks. As Oskar Schindler said (lol!), '"it's not the work, it's the presentation".

- Sources. we have to be rock solid on our use of sources and references. Links where available, full details at all times. I would like something that we could use to batter Nizkor down to size with. In fact, a great start would be to take all of the key questions posed by the folks at Nizkor and take them apart. From what I have seen, we have the collective knowledge and resources to do this. And reading this thread, we have the energy and the will to do it.

- No dodging. We deal with every single document that is thrown our way. OK, so there aren;t that many, but still...

- Emphasis on being scholarly. No unnecessary sarcasm (though yes at times one naturally cannot help it, especially when analysing the likes of Wiernik, Wiesenthal or Vrba) and no carping. No hacking at the carcass, merely a policy of clinical incision. The Holohoaxers like to use the 'butcher' technique when dealing with revisionists - it is our duty to not respond in kind but to be clinical and to the point at all times. we want people to see that we are here to teach and instruct; such an approach, if done properly, will do much to offset the idea that has been fixed in the collective popular mind that revisonists are a bunch of politically-motivated cranks. I have been at this game for almost two decades now, so I should know.

- Clear demarcation zones. We should have two main areas of study.

i. The technical stuff, where the real heavyweights can get together and take on the Nizkor folks. A place where we can discuss the chemical properties of carbon monoxide, blue bodies, and the properties of Zyklon-B. This sort of stuff should not find it's way into information for potential revisionists and newbies, as it would only serve to confuse them.

ii. Revisionism for newbies. What revisionism is all about, a collection of key questions and thirdly an anthology of popular canards which have since been consigned for one reason or another to the historical trashcan. (I think Richard Perle mentioned this first). We need to provide a full, detailed documentary history of these canards - where they came from, who said them, which scholars supported them, and what happened to them. The stories of the steam chambers, electrocution vats, human soap, Dachau gas chambers, usw. usw. The aim should be to prove conclusively that the Holocau$t 'gas chamber' story, and the evidence for it, is qualitatively no different from these long-since rejected tales.

As an offshoot of this, we can have a section that follows the Holocau$t story from 1945, like a timeline. Done in a nice, clear format, newbies can at a glace see how key aspects of the the story have changed and who has said what, all by looking at one single chart. We could cover ten of the major and 'well-known' camps - Auschwitz, Majdanek, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, Dachau, Mauthausen, Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Ravensbrueck, Theresienstadt.

I have, by this qualitative method, been able to get the message across to some. My scholarly approach and emphasis on taking each counter-argument head-on has also garnered the interest of those who might otherwise accuse me of peddling Nazi propaganda. My aim has always been to work ourselves, as revisionists, away from this so that there's no easy angle for the peddlars of the lie to pursue.

If anyone has any questions, I'd be glad to expand on any of the above points.

Scour the surface throughly until it is glistening...

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